Maybe I should stay Protestant

[KathleenElsie]

I believe the church should be a source of community, family, encouragement, trust and accountability. These are mostly relational aspects. Obviously, there are other things that are important, but I do agree that the church, as a fully functioning body, should be relational by nature. Outreach to newcomers is absolutely necessary. Some of the most effective churches and ministries are those belonging to the churches willing to reach out to the community and briing people in, as Christ did. I believe the author of this thread makes an extremely valid point.

IMHO I read your list of what a “church” should be. Not meaning to be rude or anything, where does WORSHIP come into your thinking. Without TRUE WORSHIP a church is just a building and empty “gong” or noise.

When the WORSHIP of God is first and foremost then the other things come from the Love of GOD and will lead to community and service.

 

[turtleoompa]

You are missing the point of the Church. It is not about “feeling” nor about “what’s in it for me.” If you want to be evangelized and are not getting from your local Catholic Church, you can find it in books( ie by Currie, Hahn, Keating) ,cd’s (ie lighthousecatholicmedia.com offers monthly cd’s you can listen in your car from great speakers and Knights of Columbus online has the Luke E Hart series)).Buy yourself a St Joseph’s Sunday missal (I read it before mass on Sundays). You need to make some effort and find it. The Mass is wonderful no matter where you experience it. I am lucky to have found a Catholic Church that has great homilies and dinner dances and wed nite evangelical speakers that discuss our faith ( we’ve had Scott Hahn, Fr Pacwa come and speak). Be proactive and start something at your Church. You can make that change. Catholicism is complete. You can’t get any better. Gook Luck!

 

[angelic06]

I believe the church should be a source of community, family, encouragement, trust and accountability. These are mostly relational aspects. Obviously, there are other things that are important, but I do agree that the church, as a fully functioning body, should be relational by nature. Outreach to newcomers is absolutely necessary. Some of the most effective churches and ministries are those belonging to the churches willing to reach out to the community and briing people in, as Christ did. I believe the author of this thread makes an extremely valid point.

The best church I’ve been to, the one I am at now, did not extend a welcome mat, if you will—and quite frankly, I didn’t want it. I’m here to worship, and as far as that is concerned, it outranks all of the other churches I’ve been to. Some of the worst I’ve been to have this “Welcome to St… Church/Parish…let’s turn around and greet one another” or something to that effect. Which is almost every other church I’ve been to before. Not very conducive to concentrating on the sacred action (that is, the coming of Our Lord Christ in the Eucharist under the disguise of bread and wine) which is about to occur. I am disgusted with these kind of Catholic churches. Absolutely disgusted. Now, after Mass, the priest and deacons (and sometimes some of the lay leaders in the church) are always there to greet you—if you desire—but if not, they are not going to obstruct your way to the door. That’s not their job, that is, to get you to socialize. There are plenty of summer and other seasonal socials for the faithful to socialize as announced. No one is pressured into doing anything. I think it is this atmosphere of reverence for the sacred which draws people from all different places in the archdiocese which draws people to this church, not the socializing. Give people a reverent place to worship, and they will come…and eventually interact with each other.

With blessings,

Paul

 

[Loboto-Me]

Being a Catholic is NOT about how you feel, how nice the people are to you, how much you have in common with them. Trust me, if you’re in it for all the perfect people, good luck. If you’re in it for a good time, good luck. It is NOT about the people. It is about TRUTH. It is about GOD.

I just have to agree with this!

Part of a prayer I like to pray:

May I desire to please no one,
nor fear to displease anyone,
but You.
May all transitory things, O Lord,
be worthless to me
and may all things eternal
be ever cherished by me.
May any joy without You
be burdensome for me
and may I not desire anything else
besides You.

As Catholics we are called to try to be focused on nothing but God, and therefore during our one hour of worship per week, I like to think that the whole hour should be His alone.

Social activities after Mass is very welcomed as long as it’s away from the church proper (there are people who like to be able to have quiet prayer before and after Mass too)

 

[moto5150]

IMHO I read your list of what a “church” should be. Not meaning to be rude or anything, where does WORSHIP come into your thinking. Without TRUE WORSHIP a church is just a building and empty “gong” or noise.

When the WORSHIP of God is first and foremost then the other things come from the Love of GOD and will lead to community and service.

Kathleen: Are you under the impression that your WORSHIP is only accepted within the four walls of the Catholic Church? Reverence and worship should take place in any christians daily life. Worship comes into my thinking from the moment I wake until I lay down to sleep. Worship is my life. I do not need to attend church to ‘get my worship on’, so to speak. Partaking in Holy Communion, as we protestants call it, is a huge part of Church, no doubt, and a form of worship, reverence, obedience, etc… I, however, do not believe that it is necessary for me to be within the four walls of my church in order to worship.

May I ask you this: Is Christ more pleased with the visible act of worship within the church, or the invisible acts of worship within the heart? I would say the latter, as it shows a true reverence and love for truth, reverence and glory to God. Worship is in our daily actions.

 

[jmcrae]

Kathleen: Are you under the impression that your WORSHIP is only accepted within the four walls of the Catholic Church?

The worship that is acceptable to God is the Sacrifice of His Son on the Cross, as it is being re-presented at the Catholic Mass.

Reverence and worship should take place in any christians daily life. Worship comes into my thinking from the moment I wake until I lay down to sleep.

We should always be praying to God, but prayer is not worship. We should always be doing the good works that God presents for us each day to do, but good works are not worship. Hymn-singing is a kind of prayer, but it also isn’t worship.

Worship is what takes place on the Altar at Mass. It is just one of the many essential elements of the Christian lifestyle - and it is the most important one, but it does not stand alone, since, as you say, if we only worship outwardly, without engaging our hearts and minds, and without also offering ourselves along with Christ on the Cross, then it has very little effect on us.

 

[moto5150]

The worship that is acceptable to God is the Sacrifice of His Son on the Cross, as it is being re-presented at the Catholic Mass.

So Protestant’s can’t present God with an acceptable form of worship?

Worship is what takes place on the Altar at Mass. It is just one of the many essential elements of the Christian lifestyle - and it is the most important one, but it does not stand alone…

Again, you are saying that I do not worship God unless I attend mass. Therefore, no practicing protestant can worship God. Bold statement my friend. I disagree, as many others would.

 

[jmcrae]

So Protestant’s can’t present God with an acceptable form of worship?

Protestants can attend Mass if they want to - no one is stopping them.

They can’t receive Holy Communion, but they can certainly join their hearts to the Sacrifice on the Altar.

Again, you are saying that I do not worship God unless I attend mass. Therefore, no practicing protestant can worship God. Bold statement my friend. I disagree, as many others would.

It is the Protestants themselves who have created this situation. No one in the Catholic Church is preventing Protestants from returning to the Catholic Church, or from worshipping God.

 

[moto5150]

Protestants can attend Mass if they want to - no one is stopping them.

They can’t receive Holy Communion, but they can certainly join their hearts to the Sacrifice on the Altar.

It is the Protestants themselves who have created this situation. No one in the Catholic Church is preventing Protestants from returning to the Catholic Church, or from worshipping God.

So just to confirm…Your answer is ***“No, protestants, who practice protestant Christianity cannot worship God”. ***Is this statement correct in your opinion??

 

[jmcrae]

So just to confirm…Your answer is ***“No, protestants, who practice protestant Christianity cannot worship God”. ***Is this statement correct in your opinion??

Right. (Unless they come to Mass, which of course they are always welcome to do.)

They can pray, they can sing, they can read the Bible, they can have discussions about God, and meditate on the things of God, but, since they have no validly ordained priests, nor any altar on which to offer the Sacrifice, (to “worship” is to offer the acceptable sacrifice with a priest on an altar) - then, no, they can’t worship, unless they come to Mass and do so at Mass.

It is God who gave Catholics the Mass, for that very purpose. This isn’t Catholics taking something and then keeping it away from Protestants - this is God giving it to the Catholics, and not to anyone else.

 

[Allyson]

I’m more than a little disappointed in my journey back to the RC church and my side curiosity in the EOC. I’ve been two EO churches, both VERY small, and obviously a visitor, little was done to evangelize me. There was a couple of nice folks there… but almost nothing done to want me to come back to that congregation…
At least RC parishes have a local radio station to evangelize, but the local parishes aren’t overly friendly either.
I am scheduled to get my marriage convalidated next month… but I figured now would be a good time to make sure that I want to get back into the RC. Whatever I choose… I want it to be the last time.
I like what I read about the EO approach to theology… but without instruction…
I kind of get a “you should feel priviledged to worship with us” from the EO & RC churches. The local Protestant churches do everything they can to get more members and follow-up with visitors, get their name, address, visit their home, give them an info packet, etc…
I came away thinking… they’re not friendly, a lot of non-english speaking folks, what do I have in common with them? Why investigate changing if they’re not really interested in converts…

Hello Dave in Dallas,

I was a cradle Latin Rite Catholic, but I changed rites in 2006. I have been active in two EC parishes. The first one in WV was small and close to where I went to school. There were some professors and their families - also transplants - and others who were born to it so to speak. The locals were very welcoming to students and always sad to see us go. Of course, they are always happy to have you visit too. The second parish is the one I am attending now. It is also welcoming, but I think that people need a little more time to get to meet you here because they do not have the social hour the other parish had after liturgy. The best way to get to know a parish’s parishioner’s is to get involved in some event they have going on. I volunteered at the bake sale, for example. A transplant at that parish was they first to introduce herself to me after she had seen me come a couple of times and it was through her that I got involved with more things.

By and large Catholics do not evangelize as Protestants do. In other words, you may have to take a little action on your part to get what you want. That’s not necessarily a bad thing.

Now, perhaps I’ll read the rest of the thread…

 

[rcjones]

Interesting thread.

I was saved while very much in isolation, so I have no denominational background. I have attempted to find where I belong.

I have been to two EO churches, wishing to have questions answered. I walked into the one and their baptistry was broken. So I fixed it. I was hoping to chat with someone. No one bothered. No one wanted to answer questions. I have seen the pastor in town twice since then and he simply patronizes me.

At the one it was explained that they were primarily Greek.

God miraculously sent Philip to the Eunuch, and no one could bother to talk with a guy who was serving them on his own time and trying to ask questions. One might be tempted to think that these folks don’t know Philip’s God.

I am content with what God has provided for me, but one would be hard pressed to get me to have even the slightest interest in either one of them. If there is truth there, they certainly don’t act like it, and there are those on this thread with the same attitudes.

So I am sola scriptura because the behavior of Catholics makes me so. I was saved with only a Bible in hand, no Catholic invited me, no Catholic welcomed me. I am barely tolerated here. Don’t misunderstand me. It is a form of asceticism which is good for the soul.

So in my experience, not many Catholics really believe in grace being imparted by the church, or they don’t believe they are the church, either way, they are functional Protestants.

 

[prodigalson12]

Interesting thread.

I was saved while very much in isolation, so I have no denominational background. I have attempted to find where I belong.

I have been to two EO churches, wishing to have questions answered. I walked into the one and their baptistry was broken. So I fixed it. I was hoping to chat with someone. No one bothered. No one wanted to answer questions. I have seen the pastor in town twice since then and he simply patronizes me.

At the one it was explained that they were primarily Greek.

God miraculously sent Philip to the Eunuch, and no one could bother to talk with a guy who was serving them on his own time and trying to ask questions. One might be tempted to think that these folks don’t know Philip’s God.

I am content with what God has provided for me, but one would be hard pressed to get me to have even the slightest interest in either one of them. If there is truth there, they certainly don’t act like it, and there are those on this thread with the same attitudes.

So I am sola scriptura because the behavior of Catholics makes me so. I was saved with only a Bible in hand, no Catholic invited me, no Catholic welcomed me. I am barely tolerated here. Don’t misunderstand me. It is a form of asceticism which is good for the soul.

So in my experience, not many Catholics really believe in grace being imparted by the church, or they don’t believe they are the church, either way, they are functional Protestants.

What’s happening, people are internalizing their experiences too much, you are right, I’ve noticed a lot of closed mouths, when a simple friendly word from time to time would do wonders. I’ve faced the same thing in Catholic “and” Protestant churches. It seems that some people think they are in the supermarket, so no need to chit chat away with the random strangers you come across. So, the mentality itself should be addressed here, after all, we are praying together, that’s pretty intimate contact when it comes down to it.

I guess I have to step outside of the box, break the silence, affecting change of ones self, while at the same time, keep my discernment in place, ie. not wanting to disturb someone in their prayer.

 

[angelic06]

There is a time for socializing, to be sure; there is also a time for prayer. Inside the temple is holy space; this is for prayer and worship, not socializing. When you go outside into the narthex, then you can talk respectfully with your fellow worshippers, except for during the Sacred Triduum when we should be concentrating on our Lord and maintaining silence in reverence thereof.

There is a time, place, and season for everything. We just have to be able to carefully discern which time, place, or season is for what occasion.

The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with you all forevermore.

Paul R. Viola

 

[KarenWF]

Hello Dave in Dallas. Thanks for posting your comment. If I understand you correctly, I think that what you’re looking for is hospitality, which I like to think of as a Christian virtue. If anyone read the Road to Emmaus today they will have noticed that it was in the context of hospitality that Christ was finally recognised. I think we often mistake hospitality for socialising or even entertaining.
If you are looking for hospitality Dave, don’t give up until you find it. I hope you find your Christian community.

 

[lovemyboys]

I’m more than a little disappointed in my journey back to the RC church and my side curiosity in the EOC. I’ve been two EO churches, both VERY small, and obviously a visitor, little was done to evangelize me. There was a couple of nice folks there… but almost nothing done to want me to come back to that congregation…
At least RC parishes have a local radio station to evangelize, but the local parishes aren’t overly friendly either.
I am scheduled to get my marriage convalidated next month… but I figured now would be a good time to make sure that I want to get back into the RC. Whatever I choose… I want it to be the last time.
I like what I read about the EO approach to theology… but without instruction…
I kind of get a “you should feel priviledged to worship with us” from the EO & RC churches. The local Protestant churches do everything they can to get more members and follow-up with visitors, get their name, address, visit their home, give them an info packet, etc…
I came away thinking… they’re not friendly, a lot of non-english speaking folks, what do I have in common with them? Why investigate changing if they’re not really interested in converts…

I totally understand… Every time I go to Mass, I come out looking over crowds of people, but cannot find one person who even has a friendly facial expression (until I see the priest/ deacon-- they’re fabulous people). Honestly, I find myself wondering if I’m really in the “true church” when the atmosphere of all Catholic churches I have attended is that of NON-evangelization and unwelcoming attitudes.

 

[wanner47]

“Above all you must be asking which door is the true one; not which pleases you best by its paint and panelling. In plain language, the question should never be: ‘Do I like that kind of service?’* [or “Are the people friendly?”] *but ‘Are these doctrines true: Is holiness here? Does my conscience move me towards this? Is my reluctance to knock at this door due to my pride, or my mere taste, or my personal dislike of this particular doorkeeper?’” – C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity

(italics are mine, everything else is C.S. Lewis)

 

[pismopal]

“Above all you must be asking which door is the true one; not which pleases you best by its paint and panelling. In plain language, the question should never be: ‘Do I like that kind of service?’* [or “Are the people friendly?”] *but ‘Are these doctrines true: Is holiness here? Does my conscience move me towards this? Is my reluctance to knock at this door due to my pride, or my mere taste, or my personal dislike of this particular doorkeeper?’” – C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity

(italics are mine, everything else is C.S. Lewis)

There it is. Some look for a special “something”… that could be the charismatic speaker…great choir…warm facilities…whatever. I went thru that never ending search for the new church home. Now I have a billion brothers and sisters sharing the Body Blood Soul and Divinity of Jesus at Holy Communion and a Church that is One, Holy Catholic and Apostolic. It is indeed an easy decision for some…not so easy for others.

 

[Khrystyne]

Yes, I know, but that’s not what I meant.

The Catholic Church IS the true Christian Church, a fact whether you believe it or not.
I decided long ago that I needed to humble myself and conform rather than reform. Despite sufferings I remain in the Catholic Church because Christ established her AND that is where He has led me. He answered my prayer in seeking and asking Him where the truth can be found. Period. Submitting ego/pride is such a glorious and painful task.

I’m a cradle Catholic/Convert, and after some intense demonic experiences and having run to the Catholic Church into the magisteriums arms it was proven pretty clearly where the truth of the truth can be found, why would I go anywhere else? That pretty much did it for me. I’m not satisfied with half truths and following error, oh how the devil can play with our minds all over the place. Prayer is absolutely essential and having a sincere and OPEN heart and mind to the truth. I pray that people will not have to suffer what I have suffered, but if Christ wants you He’ll allow it to prove your nothingness and bring you to your knees.

I hope someone out there takes this to heart and heeds the message of direction to Christ’s Church, the Catholic Church. Don’t waste one more day on the fence.

God Bless.

 

[oak2520]

Maybe this post has been out for awhile, and this response might not even make a difference. However, I am sadden to see that people do generalize because of their experiences to a group of “representatives”. I am like that–have been and probably still am.

However, in my very own experience, as a shy person, I do not initiate a conversation because I usually go to a mass by myself. (I am a convert from Buddhism–both my parents do not approve of my conversion which happened when I was 16 back in Thailand. My father even grounded me for a month and threw away every item I received from my Baptism and Confirmation.)

Despite my experience of lacking people to talk to, I am fortunate enough to see that each of us to mass for some reasons–how different they may be. Please do not be discourage and think that all we do are perfunctory or simply shallow. For one, I go there to be closer to God due to many experiences and trials I have faced.

Additionally, I see how anyone can feel like many of us, posters here, do. That’s probably because most Catholics who are baptised at birth may not be well informed of the catechism of the Church.