Maybe some truth to "once saved, always saved"?

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I am not talking about the usual doctrine that once we have sanctifying grace, we can never in our lives lose it.

I merely am suggesting that, if you ever have sanctifying grace in your life, God probably won’t allow you to die at some point when you don’t. People can gain and lose sanctifying grace, but it seems like God would ensure that people die during a period in their life when they are in a state of grace, if there is any point in their life when that occurs.

thoughts?
 
N0X3x said:
I am not talking about the usual doctrine that once we have sanctifying grace, we can never in our lives lose it.

I merely am suggesting that, if you ever have sanctifying grace in your life, God probably won’t allow you to die at some point when you don’t. People can gain and lose sanctifying grace, but it seems like God would ensure that people die during a period in their life when they are in a state of grace, if there is any point in their life when that occurs.

thoughts?
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God is not bound to conform to human ideas about His activity.
 
I’ve often wondered this but use a different argument. Grace is a gift from God. Since God is eternal, all that He does is eternal. Therefore the gift of grace is eternal.

I don’t think this argument holds any water but I’m curious to see the arguments against this and your argument.

Honestly though I only dimly understand these things so I’ll stick with the Church’s teaching.
 
N0X3x said:
I am not talking about the usual doctrine that once we have sanctifying grace, we can never in our lives lose it.

I merely am suggesting that, if you ever have sanctifying grace in your life, God probably won’t allow you to die at some point when you don’t. People can gain and lose sanctifying grace, but it seems like God would ensure that people die during a period in their life when they are in a state of grace, if there is any point in their life when that occurs.

thoughts?
Click to expand...
Hello again Nox,
Lets remember 1 Thessalonians 5:2 “for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.” Moral of the story is to stay in sanctifying grace always!😃

God Bless!👍
 
If we are once saved, then always saved, what would be the point of going to confession and having our sins forgiven? It sounds like a pipe dream to me and much too close to predestination.
 
J_Peterson said:
I’ve often wondered this but use a different argument. Grace is a gift from God. Since God is eternal, all that He does is eternal. Therefore the gift of grace is eternal.

I don’t think this argument holds any water but I’m curious to see the arguments against this and your argument.

Honestly though I only dimly understand these things so I’ll stick with the Church’s teaching.
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According to that argument God is inflexible as well as immutable!
 
Charlemagne_II said:
If we are once saved, then always saved, what would be the point of going to confession and having our sins forgiven? It sounds like a pipe dream to me and much too close to predestination.
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It would amount to predestination, Charlie! Nothing we do would make any difference.
 
tonyrey said:
According to that argument God is inflexible as well as immutable!
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What’s the distinction between the two? I’m thinking that inflexible has to do with His will which is free and immutable has to do with His nature but I’m not sure I follow?

My head turns to mush when I think of Eternity.
 
**Wouldn’t “Once saved, always saved” take away our free will ?

Lucifer and the other angels were given free will and used it to turn away from God. We also have that same free will, so with that, we can chose at anytime to also turn away from God before we die if we wish to. **
 
I think it’s possible that God might honor an informal contract we make with Him that He let us die before we fall.

For people who experience a strong conversion experience, we often seem to make this wish to Him. It wouldn’t surprise me that, having foreknowledge, He honors that wish.

That’s not to say that He will necessarily do such a thing, but I think it’s possible. That’s what I hope anyway. At this point, I really just want to do what I need to do to get to Heaven.
 
**porthos

Except that predestination is Catholic teaching. **

Would you care to elaborate?

Do you believe in free will?

If you do, how would you reconcile that with once saved always saved"?
 
This is how we will be judged. Why do we constantly try to alter and rework the words of Jesus?

34 Then the king will say to those at his right hand, “Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; 35 for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.” 37 Then the righteous will answer him, “Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry and gave you food, or thirsty and gave you something to drink? 38 And when was it that we saw you a stranger and welcomed you, or naked and gave you clothing? 39 And when was it that we saw you sick or in prison and visited you?” 40 And the king will answer them, “Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family,[a] you did it to me.” 41 Then he will say to those at his left hand, “You that are accursed, depart from me into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not give me clothing, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.” 44 Then they also will answer, “Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not take care of you?” 45 Then he will answer them, “Truly I tell you, just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.” 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.’
 
God knows when we will die, but it is our responsibilty to ensure that we are in a state of grace. Otherwise, God would be infringing on the free will He gives us, which He never does.
 
good post above
also

Matt 7:15-20

15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. 18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.

and Psalm 1

Blessed is the man
who walks not in the counsel of the wicked,
nor stands in the way of sinners,
nor sits in the seat of scoffers;
2 but his delight is in the law of the Lord,
and on his law he meditates day and night.

3 He is like a tree
planted by streams of water
that yields its fruit in its season,
and its leaf does not wither.
In all that he does, he prospers.

4 The wicked are not so,
but are like chaff that the wind drives away.

5 Therefore the wicked will not stand in the judgment,
nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous;
6 for the Lord knows the way of the righteous,
but the way of the wicked will perish.

One who claims OSAS must still bear good fruit.
Our fruit is not our resume’ but is the fruit of the Spirit.
 
Charlemagne_II said:
**porthos

Except that predestination is Catholic teaching. **

Would you care to elaborate?

Do you believe in free will?

If you do, how would you reconcile that with once saved always saved"?
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It’s not what I believe, it’s what the Catholic Church teaches. The Church teaches that man has free will. The Church teaches it, therefore I believe it.

The following are Catholic teaching:
  1. God desires the salvation of all.
  2. God has decreed, from the beginning, certain people to heaven. This is predestination.
  3. God gave man free will to choose or reject him and his grace.
  4. God gives every person sufficient grace that he may be saved
  5. God works with man’s free will to ensure that those he has predestined to heaven do in fact get there. How this happens exactly is not defined.
  6. God can see how each person responds to his grace, and by virtue of foreseen demerits freely chosen, predestines certain people to damnation. How this happens exactly is not defined.
So as far as once-saved-always-saved, while we don’t put it that crudely, we do accept that the elect/predestined will persevere to the end.
 
**porthos

Much better to say we don’t know, or understand yet than say a supernatural Being must be the answer.**

If God has predestined some to heaven, has he predestined others to hell?
 
vincent10395 said:
Hello again Nox,
Lets remember 1 Thessalonians 5:2 “for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.” Moral of the story is to stay in sanctifying grace always!😃

God Bless!👍
Click to expand...
true that. I suspect that if this idea is an accurate portrayal of God’s actions, God didn’t reveal it to us precisely because he feared that we would use the idea to justify being evil, after already having been in a state of sanctifying grace.
 
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