Medical Journals Show Increasing Support for Euthanasia

[St_Francis]

Link. Doxtor shows many examples from different countries, and discusses ramifications.From the article: Unfortunately, the sacred trust of the doctor-patient relationship is being strained by a new ethical model. Physicians are being urged to place the “greater good” above the needs of their individual patients. A disregard for the sanctity of human life as well as a utilitarian philosophy that judges the value of a patient to society is becoming more mainstream in the medical profession. This is evidenced by the increasing number of articles in respected medical journals that call for approval of assisted suicide and euthanasia, euphemistically called “assisted dying.”

I found this interesting. Naturally, Catholics adhere to natural law as taught by the Church to put boundaries on the common good which protect patients. But in the abortion debate, we are told not to seek to “impose” our “religion”–you can’t legislate morality after all–so what ideas are there to protect the elderly and disabled from utilitarian principles?

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

Do people, if presented with the opportunity, have the right to die in a manner of their own choosing? I think they should. Why should anyone be forced to exist in a state of pain, misery, and degradation of dignity against their will? I think anyone who has seen a loved one suffer the ravages of cancer to the point of death will sympathize with that point of view whether or not they agree with it. I also think that a lot of people would change their mind if they had no other choice but to spend the rest of their days living like some kind of semi-concious cyborg strapped to a hospital bed.

 

[SpeakInSilence]

Do people, if presented with the opportunity, have the right to die in a manner of their own choosing? I think they should. Why should anyone be forced to exist in a state of pain, misery, and degradation of dignity against their will? I think anyone who has seen a loved one suffer the ravages of cancer to the point of death will sympathize with that point of view whether or not they agree with it. I also think that a lot of people would change their mind if they had no other choice but to spend the rest of their days living like some kind of semi-concious cyborg strapped to a hospital bed.

As someone who personally had someone they dearly love die from a long case of crippling cancer I find your remark to be highly offensive.

I thank God for every moment my grandfather attempted to stay alive for the sake of those whom loved him greatly.

These people who have these diseases, or cancers need support and love, not a doctor standing over them trying to end their life the moment their depression says there is no hope.

Your statement is an insult to our 2000 year tradition of saints and martyrdom, and shows a complete lack of understanding of Catholic ethic.

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

These people who have these diseases, or cancers need support and love, not a doctor standing over them trying to end their life the moment their depression says there is no hope.Your statement is an insult to our 2000 year tradition of saints and martyrdom, and shows a complete lack of understanding of Catholic ethic

People can and should decide for themselves what it is that they need. What right does the State have to force them to live without dignity in a state of pain and misery? I know what the Catholic position is and I think it is and has been misrepresented. One is not obligated to take extraordinary measures to stay alive and that meaning is different for everyone. I think people should be allowed to choose between Dr. Frankenstein and Dr. Euthanasia and it is dishonest to suggest that it constitutes a violation of the Hippocratic Oath. Performing involuntary medical procedures to extend life beyond the natural abilities of the body is what violates the Hippocratic Oath. I clear erred in saying everyone so I’ll amend it to most including myself.

 

[SpeakInSilence]

People can and should decide for themselves what it is that they need. What right does the State have to force them to live without dignity in a state of pain and misery? I know what the Catholic position is and I think it is and has been misrepresented. One is not obligated to take extraordinary measures to stay alive and that meaning is different for everyone. I think people should be allowed to choose between Dr. Frankenstein and Dr. Euthanasia and it is dishonest to suggest that it constitutes a violation of the Hippocratic Oath. Performing involuntary medical procedures to extend life beyond the natural abilities of the body is what violates the Hippocratic Oath. I clear erred in saying everyone so I’ll amend it to most including myself.

Show me where Catholic Teaching accepts suicide in any manner, friend. I think you’re going to have a hard time.

Exact place in the Catechism, and also prove that the suicide of the individual does not cause more damaging and emotional scarring for those around them.

 

[Julia_Mae]

Show me where Catholic Teaching accepts suicide in any manner, friend. I think you’re going to have a hard time.

Exact place in the Catechism, and also prove that the suicide of the individual does not cause more damaging and emotional scarring for those around them.

The Church does not require us to submit to medical procedures to extend our lives.

If you are claiming it does, maybe you could please provide a citation?

 

[St_Francis]

Let us first understand that euthanasia is an action taken for the purpose of causing death.

Euthanasia is **not **refusal or withdrawal of medical treatment.

And euthanasia is **not **even giving a patient who is terminally ill and in great pain sufficient pailkiller to actually alleviate the pain knowing that death may ensue, as a side-effect.

Euthanasia is taking an action which will kill a patient.

This is immoral; it is murder.

 

[St_Francis]

The Church does not require us to submit to medical procedures to extend our lives.

If you are claiming it does, maybe you could please provide a citation?

The article is about assisted suicide and euthanasia, *not *about apprpriate withdrawal or rejection of treatment. SpeakinSilence is responding to Emperor Napoleon’s comments, which are either very unclear or supportive of euthansia and assisted suicide.

 

[_Abyssinia]

Look to see where euthanasia leads where it has been legalised, Netherlands. They now allow loneliness and non life threatening reasons as acceptable for euthanasia

Since 1973, when euthanasia was quasi decriminalized, Dutch doctors have gone from euthanizing the terminally ill who ask for it, to the chronically ill who ask for it, to people with disabilities who ask for it, to the mentally anguished who ask for it–and all legal because the “guidelines” proved so elastic they had not snap back at all. And now, they want to target vulnerable and marginalized elderly people

nationalrighttolifenews.org/news/2011/10/dutch-docs-to-expand-definition-of-“suffering”-for-euthanasia-to-include-“loneliness”-and-finances

Over 1000 people have been euthanised with out their consent

After the guidelines had been in place for 23 years, doctors were surveyed about people they euthanized. Incidentally, doctors later admitted they had under-reported euthanasia cases, so the following statistics are actually less than what really happened.

In 1990, 130,000 people died in the Netherlands: 2,300 people asked doctors to kill them; 400 asked doctors to provide them with the means to kill themselves; 8,100 died when doctors deliberately gave them an overdose of pain medication to kill them (for which 4,941 patients didn’t consent); 1,040 people died when doctors euthanized them without their knowledge or consent (72 per cent of those never having given any indication they would want their lives terminated).

That’s breathtaking in more than one way.

It’s not so much that nine per cent died at the hands of doctors, which is alarming in and of itself. What should raise our cries of outrage is that 4,941 people (four per cent) did not give their consent to being killed. A doctor who operates on someone without their consent can be successfully sued and made to pay huge dollars for having done so. The same should apply for killing a person without their consent.

And it’s the 1,040 people (one percent) who were killed without their knowledge or consent and the 749 who never wanted to die early that should get us up in arms.

blogs.theprovince.com/2012/07/03/anne-mctavish-netherlands-euthanasia-stats-are-appalling

 

[_Abyssinia]

Look to see where euthanasia leads where it has been legalised, Netherlands. They now allow loneliness and non life threatening reasons as acceptable for euthanasia

Since 1973, when euthanasia was quasi decriminalized, Dutch doctors have gone from euthanizing the terminally ill who ask for it, to the chronically ill who ask for it, to people with disabilities who ask for it, to the mentally anguished who ask for it–and all legal because the “guidelines” proved so elastic they had not snap back at all. And now, they want to target vulnerable and marginalized elderly people

nationalrighttolifenews.org/news/2011/10/dutch-docs-to-expand-definition-of-“suffering”-for-euthanasia-to-include-“loneliness”-and-finances

Over 4000 people have been euthanised with out their consent

After the guidelines had been in place for 23 years, doctors were surveyed about people they euthanized. Incidentally, doctors later admitted they had under-reported euthanasia cases, so the following statistics are actually less than what really happened.

In 1990, 130,000 people died in the Netherlands: 2,300 people asked doctors to kill them; 400 asked doctors to provide them with the means to kill themselves; 8,100 died when doctors deliberately gave them an overdose of pain medication to kill them (for which 4,941 patients didn’t consent); 1,040 people died when doctors euthanized them without their knowledge or consent (72 per cent of those never having given any indication they would want their lives terminated).

That’s breathtaking in more than one way.

It’s not so much that nine per cent died at the hands of doctors, which is alarming in and of itself. What should raise our cries of outrage is that 4,941 people (four per cent) did not give their consent to being killed. A doctor who operates on someone without their consent can be successfully sued and made to pay huge dollars for having done so. The same should apply for killing a person without their consent.

And it’s the 1,040 people (one percent) who were killed without their knowledge or consent and the 749 who never wanted to die early that should get us up in arms.

blogs.theprovince.com/2012/07/03/anne-mctavish-netherlands-euthanasia-stats-are-appalling

 

[Holly3278]

How disgusting. This world just keeps plummeting further and further into an immoral abyss.

 

[nordskoven]

The first group to push for legalized suicide in America were not doctors or patients but California lawyers, presumably eager to churn probate cases. I have a friend who is a quadriplegic and their groups are disturbed by this euthanasia push as they have to battle to carve out care programs that give them flexible options and see the move to euthanasia as putting negative pressure on this already complex process to their detriment. One thinks of Joni Eareckson Tada’s recounting her days in recovery after breaking her neck diving and the brusque treatment and harsh comments from various nurses regarding this “vegetable.” God forbid. This is the part of the corporate culture that would only be reinforced with “euthanasia.”

There already is a sub-culture of “beautiful death” with the practice of overdosing with morphine. This is both informal and widespread. Anecdotally it seems like teaching venues go to great lengths to screen out “pro-life” types with their slanted discussions on ethics, and hand-raising polls to pressure other students to accept abortion and euthanasia and the death penalty.

Also anecdotally, my antique mom was visited by Dr. Death and his sidekick-intern and got the lecture of let me take you upstairs and give you the dignified death I gave my parents. I guess it was the University of Kansas Hospital’s in-house hospice. She was aghast, shaken, upset and preferred to struggle with her condition as she enjoyed those last weeks with her family. I am glad I was there to pepper him with questions about simple drug therapies like fibrinolytic “scar tissue” removers to clean the kidneys that were available and not being applied. I also got a manager-type nurse taking me aside and asking what business does a 93-year-old woman have in being on this Earth and I said that’s her decision so let’s help out. I told her mom was a former KU employee and had undergone lots of pioneer medical treatments over the decades and was willing to be a guinea pig/patient in this teaching hospital to help others. Having said that, the overwhelming majority of front-line nurses and doctors were delighted to work with mom. God bless 'em and buoy them up.

A further anecdote regards my pastor who was recovering from leg amputations related to his diabetes. As one lady advised me from experience with her husband, people have to support the staff and provide care for their loved ones and lobby for the best care. I concur. That’s just a fact. My pastor’s “support staff” friends were not pro-active, and when the nurse essentially told them to help feed monsignor, they did nothing. I was vexed but outranked and they actually asked me to leave when I started helping out. A hospital or nursing home is not a store where you get waited on. People have to pitch in and go grab oxygen tanks and find the right guy to change that dressing or go get ice chips and such. It’s a lead, follow, or get out of the way situation.

May God grant us good, abundant, healthy, happy, safe and moral lives, good deaths and eternity with Him.

 

[Tenofovir]

Do people, if presented with the opportunity, have the right to die in a manner of their own choosing? I think they should.

So you support the death penalty then? After all if you know that the penalty for drug smuggling or murder is death, and you go ahead and do those things anyway…?

And while I disagree that people have the right to die in a manner of their choosing I don’t think anyone else has a right to kill them. Where do these rights come from anyway?

Why should anyone be forced to exist in a state of pain, misery, and degradation of dignity against their will?

That’s just it. Pain is part of life and is unavoidable. Excessive pain is pain which is unbearable but that is subjective. For one person unbearable or unrewarding pain is the mere act of waking up - people with major depression or some personality disorders - for others unbearable pain virtually limitless. Now much of this can be shaped, if not all of it. We can counsel, reason and support people to live with pain. We can ease pain with medical interventions and surgical procedures. We can let the person see a bigger picture. We can take his focus off the pain. This is even more so for INDIGNITY. For some people indignity is the same as incontinence of urine or feces. But again that is subjective. And it all comes down to the way people see me, and so judge me and unless I am a superstar (or similar) I am useless and undignified. That’s a warped view of it and it’s an unnecessary view. In an age of individualism there is no reason to consider one not dignified because one no longer lives up to the ideal one has created in one’s head based on what one perceives society makes of one.

I think anyone who has seen a loved one suffer the ravages of cancer to the point of death will sympathize with that point of view whether or not they agree with it. I also think that a lot of people would change their mind if they had no other choice but to spend the rest of their days living like some kind of semi-concious cyborg strapped to a hospital bed.

I don’t see how that would change the validity of the reasons for and against. Just because I’ve never suffered major depression I have no right to treat it or counsel anyone with it? So just because I’ve never spent time in jail I have no right to advocate for the rights of inmates? Etc. If anything that would bring an irrational emotional component into it. Aunt Margaret euthenised herself because she couldn’t bear the pain of no longer being continent after her colostomy. She really suffered. Therefore we should allow her to kill herself. Instead, we should convince her that incontinence is not undignified. A semi-conscious cyborg still has a possibility of return to health in many cases at least. In cases where he cannot, he can still find meaning in his life, it’s a issue of support and will. Stephen Hawking is an example of someone who continues to be successful despite his disability. But he could easily have become depressed and had himself killed 20 years ago. And let’s not forget our loved ones. If we bring love and hope to them, why be so selfish and do away with ourselves.

Furthermore euthanasia will be done against the patient’s will as it is done in Holland.

Euthanasia also places a burden on doctors and redefines medicine. It makes human life LESS VALUABLE. If your condition is LIFE, then we can CURE that by killing you.

It should be obvious that atheist secularists do want to force their morality on others by changing laws. I don’t think they have that right, unless an equal right is given to religious ideologies.

 

[Tenofovir]

She was aghast, shaken, upset and preferred to struggle with her condition as she enjoyed those last weeks with her family.

God bless her. And human life is just that, it’s living for others, and it is suffering. Suffering is unavoidable. It is also subjective and the judgement of it changes. A depressed mood makes pain thresholds significantly LESS. Lack of support does the same. And who is to say that suffering is unbearable. Should not the sad teen who was dumped by her boyfriend not have the right to kill herself?

 

[Tenofovir]

People can and should decide for themselves what it is that they need.

So a depressed person taking an overdose of pills is ok. If such a person is brought to a hospital, the hospital should not treat? OK.

What right does the State have to force them to live without dignity in a state of pain and misery?

What right do they have to kill themselves? Especially when dignity and pain are subjective and almost always change - either they physically change (e.g. pain changes) or perception of their effects changes. I don’t agree that people have the right to kill themselves. And secondly I deny their right to force others to do it for them. Thirdly, even if they had those rights, it would not follow that emotional subjective assessment of their own should be valid enough to decide. I also disagree that a panel of experts can have the insight to decide what is unbearable for someone else, as they don’t have direct access to his thought processes.

I know what the Catholic position is and I think it is and has been misrepresented. One is not obligated to take extraordinary measures to stay alive and that meaning is different for everyone. I think people should be allowed to choose between Dr. Frankenstein and Dr. Euthanasia and it is dishonest to suggest that it constitutes a violation of the Hippocratic Oath.

It is dishonest to force doctors to perform euthanasia. We are not killers.

 

[CaptFun]

Have your READ the new Medical Journal? It’s to die for ! :stretcher:

“Hey! It’s 60% Mortuary Ads!” -

- “The AMA just merged with an embalming supply co.”

youtube.com/watch?v=aTjQO163P2E < Soylent Green in 7 minutes.

They wouldn’t listen to the liberals. NOW the world is so overpopulated you can hardly move. There’s hardlly a scrap of meat or real food. The Greenhouse Effect (Global Warming)! Evil corporations that ruined our planet!

But maybe it was a conservative movie too. With an oppressive big Government and a Health Care Program to help old people “do the right thing,” and “go”.

What was left of religion seemed to have been a worship for the old days when the planet was nice - or did they euthanize themselves out of generosity and not despair?

Interesting movie Soylent Green, beautiful and ugly mixed together.

Check out the euthanasia scene … it’s sooooo niiiiice! Mmmm. Gimme that government cradle-to-grave Health Care. I don’t need a cradle at my age I can tell ya! :sad_bye:

Medicine and Health Care is so much easier when you don’t have to CURE anyone. - heh heh!

 

[Julia_Mae]

The article is about assisted suicide and euthanasia, *not *about apprpriate withdrawal or rejection of treatment. SpeakinSilence is responding to Emperor Napoleon’s comments, which are either very unclear or supportive of euthansia and assisted suicide.

I’d like to hear from the poster themselves.