Medicine ok to take? - paramakia and sorcery

[TheSeeker2014]

Galatians 5:20
Rev 9:21
Rev 21:8
Rev 22:15
the word ‘sorcery’ is used, This word in Greek is ‘pharamakia’ meaning

Word Origin
from pharmakeuó (to administer drugs)
Definition
the use of medicine, drugs or spells
NASB Translation
sorceries (1), sorcery (2). biblehub.com/greek/5331.htm

Which includes contraceptives (which I understand) This action is condemned if a person uses them.

docs.google.com/file/d/0B2TEAA7lIq0nQW1XYlhObVhkbFU/edit?pli=1
Section contraceptives…

So my question is about medicine/drugs
Would it be considered wrong to take medication for illnesses or issues?
I understand today’s medication is synthetic and is made in labs and are manipulated chemical compounds. And could be seen as alchemy which can be categorized with sorcery which both is manipulation of elements.
Should as Catholics use natural medicine rather than the standard medicine or should none be used… or does it matter? Or is it talking about medication that is not needed for an aliment or illness and the person is taking for personal benefits such as contraceptives or even male enhancements or weight loss medication and would this circumstance include vitamins that are not natural?

 

[Christianus_Dei]

Sirach 38:

1 Treat the doctor with the honour that is his due, in consideration of his services; for he too has been created by the Lord.

2 Healing itself comes from the Most High, like a gift received from a king.

3 The doctor’s learning keeps his head high, and the great regard him with awe.

4 The Lord has brought forth medicinal herbs from the ground, and no one sensible will despise them.

5 Did not a piece of wood once sweeten the water, thus giving proof of its power?

6 He has also given some people knowledge, so that they may draw credit from his mighty works.

7 He uses these for healing and relieving pain; the druggist makes up a mixture from them.

8 Thus, there is no end to his activities; thanks to him, well-being exists throughout the world.

9 My child, when you are ill, do not rebel, but pray to the Lord and he will heal you.

10 Renounce your faults, keep your hands unsoiled, and cleanse your heart from all sin.

11 Offer incense and a memorial of fine flour, make as rich an offering as you can afford.

12 Then let the doctor take over – the Lord created him too – do not let him leave you, for you need him.

13 There are times when good health depends on doctors.

14 For they, in their turn, will pray the Lord to grant them the grace to relieve and to heal, and so prolong your life.

15 Whoever sins in the eyes of his Maker, let such a one come under the care of the doctor!

16 My child, shed tears over the dead, lament for the dead to show your sorrow, then bury the body with due ceremony and do not fail to honour the grave.

17 Weep bitterly, beat your breast, observe the mourning the dead deserves for a day or two, to avoid censorious comment, and then be comforted in your sorrow;

18 for grief can lead to death, a grief-stricken heart loses all energy.

19 In affliction sorrow persists, a life of grief is hard to bear.

20 Do not abandon your heart to grief, drive it away, bear your own end in mind.

21 Do not forget, there is no coming back; you cannot help the dead, and you will harm yourself.

22 ‘Remember my doom, since it will be yours too; I yesterday, you today!’

23 Once the dead are laid to rest, let their memory rest, do not fret for them, once their spirit departs.

24 Leisure gives the scribe the chance to acquire wisdom; a man with few commitments can grow wise.

25 How can the ploughman become wise, whose sole ambition is to wield the goad, driving his oxen, engrossed in their work, his conversation limited to bullocks,

26 his thoughts absorbed in the furrows he traces and his long evenings spent in fattening heifers?

27 Similarly with all workmen and craftsmen, toiling day and night; those who engrave seals, for ever trying to think of a new design, concentrating on catching a good likeness and staying up late to get the work done.

28 Similarly with the blacksmith sitting by his anvil; he considers what to do with the pig-iron, the breath of the fire scorches his skin, as he contends with the heat of the furnace; the noise of the hammer deafens him, his eyes are fixed on the pattern; he concentrates on getting the job done well and stays up late to apply the finishing touches.

29 Similarly with the potter, sitting at his work, turning the wheel with his feet; constantly on the alert over his work, each flick of the finger premeditated;

30 he pummels the clay with his arm, and with his feet he kneads it; he concentrates on applying the glaze right and stays up late to clean the kiln.

31 All these people rely on their hands and each is skilled at his own craft.

32 A town could not be inhabited without them, there would be no settling, no travelling.

33 But you will not find them in the parliament, they do not hold high rank in the assembly. They do not sit on the judicial bench, and they do not meditate on the Law.

34 They are not remarkable for their culture or judgement, nor are they found frequenting the philosophers. They sustain the structure of the world, and their prayer is concerned with their trade.

 

[Christianus_Dei]

I read your post, figured someone else would answer, flipped to part of the Bible to start reading, and found I had bookmarked this chapter months ago.

So yeah, I literally read your post and then flipped open the Bible to these verses.

 

[po18guy]

Since TheSeeker 2014 may not have Jesus ben Sira (Sirach, Ecclesiasticus) in his bible, here is one that he will have:

Ezekiel 47:12 Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE)

12 And on the banks, on both sides of the river, there will grow all kinds of trees for food. Their leaves will not wither nor their fruit fail, but they will bear fresh fruit every month, because the water for them flows from the sanctuary. Their fruit will be for food, and their leaves for healing.”

 

[Cachonga]

If taking medicine was wrong, I would have been dead years ago! I take drugs for my heart, blood pressure, kidneys and joints (all prescribed by a licensed physician). I do not, however, take “recreational” drugs (like marijuana, cocaine, amphetamines, etc…). God has granted us an increase in knowledge so that doctors can help people live longer. Considering Luke was a physician, and Jesus never spoke against doctors, why would you think there would be a problem with taking drugs prescribed by a doctor? Even over the counter drugs (like aspirin, cold medicine, etc…) should be OK (providing they are used as recommended). Finally, I would remind you of one of my favorite Bible verses - “A joyful heart is good medicine, But a broken spirit dries up the bones.” (Pro 17:22 NAU).

Hope this helps!

Pax!

 

[captainrick]

God gave us the ability to develop beneficial drugs. I too would have been gone years ago without modern medications and procedures. They are a gift from God, so I am happy to use them!

 

[St_Francis]

When the Pill first became more widely used, there were people against taking it. There a sign for sale in a store with Uncle Sam and under was written something like Uncle wants wants you to not take the Pill.

I was 9 and had No Clue what it was about! Did this mean I couldn’t take aspirin? (no typenol, no Reyes syndrome at that time).

People were discreet and called the contraceptive pills the Pill, as i later learned.

In the same way, the people way back then were discreet. Condemnations of pharmakia were condemnations of contraceptives. I read about this just recently, because as a result of their discretion, some argue that the early Christians didn’t really condemn abc ): If I run across a link to this, I will post it here.

 

[mikekle]

I agree that medicine has saved and/ or extended alot of lives, but I also see the other side of the argument as well…Im not sure which is right though.

Ive heard that ‘root cutting’ (pharmacology), was one of the angelic forbidden knowledge taught to mankind by the fallen angels, I could probably even find the specific fallen angels name that ‘specilized’ in this area, so that is interesting…who knows, maybe this is a deception, it would fool alot of people if true!

 

[TheSeeker2014]

If taking medicine was wrong, I would have been dead years ago! I take drugs for my heart, blood pressure, kidneys and joints (all prescribed by a licensed physician). I do not, however, take “recreational” drugs (like marijuana, cocaine, amphetamines, etc…). God has granted us an increase in knowledge so that doctors can help people live longer. Considering Luke was a physician, and Jesus never spoke against doctors, why would you think there would be a problem with taking drugs prescribed by a doctor? Even over the counter drugs (like aspirin, cold medicine, etc…) should be OK (providing they are used as recommended). Finally, I would remind you of one of my favorite Bible verses - “A joyful heart is good medicine, But a broken spirit dries up the bones.” (Pro 17:22 NAU).

Hope this helps!

Pax!

I agree however I am asking which kind of medicine would this be referring too?
I see the script the first poster gave, and I understand it and it was talking about plants.
So my question is back to the original post, Would todays medicine be wrong to take since it is a synthetic compound of elements which is so very close to alchemy… or would it be correct to take the natural medicines now called alternative? Or does it not really matter? And would this be the same circumstance as vitamins?

 

[TheSeeker2014]

I agree that medicine has saved and/ or extended alot of lives, but I also see the other side of the argument as well…Im not sure which is right though.

Ive heard that ‘root cutting’ (pharmacology), was one of the angelic forbidden knowledge taught to mankind by the fallen angels, I could probably even find the specific fallen angels name that ‘specilized’ in this area, so that is interesting…who knows, maybe this is a deception, it would fool alot of people if true!

Yes I have read about that too, however that angel left his original place and fell because of the wanting to help human but he did not have God’s permission to do so. He had good intentions but went about or acted on in the wrong way (not God’s will).
Point being, what an angel shows to us and teaches us a great knowledge such as you pointed out pharmacology, or metal working (swords shields) whatever it is not considered wrong to us. These are something God wanted us to find out and learn ourselves. These things were never forbidden for humans… it was only forbidden for angels to teach humans these things. We would have figured it out on our own eventually through trial and err… plus we are creative when we want to be.

 

[mikekle]

Yes I have read about that too, however that angel left his original place and fell because of the wanting to help human but he did not have God’s permission to do so. He had good intentions but went about or acted on in the wrong way (not God’s will).
Point being, what an angel shows to us and teaches us a great knowledge such as you pointed out pharmacology, or metal working (swords shields) whatever it is not considered wrong to us. These are something God wanted us to find out and learn ourselves. These things were never forbidden for humans… it was only forbidden for angels to teach humans these things. We would have figured it out on our own eventually through trial and err… plus we are creative when we want to be.

I never knew that angel was trying to help mankind…I thought they taught us those 7-10 things to spite God…kind of strange a fallen angel would want to help humans.

I still find it very curious that one of these things was Alchemy, yet that I know of NO ONE has ever been able to create Gold out of lead…was the angel wrong about Alchemy or did humans just not understand how to do it correctly? Strange that even today in 2014, no one has figured out how to make this work, I tend to think if an angel taught us a topic, its real and at least possible to do, so Im assuming we messed up somewhere along the lines.

I may be wrong on this though, not sure if the angels who taught this knowledge was actually a fallen angel or a watcher, or if there is even a difference between the two.

 

[TheSeeker2014]

I never knew that angel was trying to help mankind…I thought they taught us those 7-10 things to spite God…kind of strange a fallen angel would want to help humans.

I still find it very curious that one of these things was Alchemy, yet that I know of NO ONE has ever been able to create Gold out of lead…was the angel wrong about Alchemy or did humans just not understand how to do it correctly? Strange that even today in 2014, no one has figured out how to make this work, I tend to think if an angel taught us a topic, its real and at least possible to do, so Im assuming we messed up somewhere along the lines.

I may be wrong on this though, not sure if the angels who taught this knowledge was actually a fallen angel or a watcher, or if there is even a difference between the two.

Alchemy is not always about making gold out of something. it is,
a power or process of transforming something common into something special
merriam-webster.com/dictionary/alchemy

At the time they were teaching… they were not fallen… not until they finished teaching… because then it was taught.
From what I have read there are two kinds of fallen angels
Those who originally fell with lucifer
Then those who fell later in wanting to help humans in their fallen state but did not listen to God’s will of no. - good intentions wrong in how they acted on (happened in the times of Noah I believe… they were some of the watchers that left their place
They are not fallen until they disobey.
Point being…

Origin of ALCHEMY

Middle English alkamie, alquemie, from Middle French or Medieval Latin; Middle French alkimie, from Medieval Latin alchymia, from Arabic al-kīmiyā’, from al the + kīmiyā’ alchemy, from Late Greek chēmeia
First Known Use: 14th century merriam-webster.com/dictionary/alchemy

ORIGIN OF THE NAME “CHEMISTRY”

The Greek word “chemeia” first appears in about the fourth century hilltop.bradley.edu/~rbg/Origin.html

alchemy chemeia chemical chemistry todays drug is a chemical compound from manipulation of elements

2chemical noun
: a substance (such as an element or compound) that is made by a chemical process
Full Definition of CHEMICAL

1
: a substance obtained by a chemical process or producing a chemical effect
2
: drug 3

1chem·i·cal adjective \ˈke-mi-kəl
: of or relating to chemistry

: working by means of chemicals

Full Definition of CHEMICAL

1
: of, relating to, used in, or produced by chemistry or the phenomena of chemistry

merriam-webster.com/dictionary/chemical

I suppose the question would be would todays medicine be wrong to take if it is made by alchemy and is not natural things mixed together such as leaves or plants. Or, is alchemy only considered so if being done to make things for personal benefit to cheat people or if it is considered so by metal transformation?

We could do alchemy to create water by binding atoms of oxygen and hydrogen to make something completely different.

Or what about lab created gem stones?

hmm

 

[TheSeeker2014]

or maybe it is the religious philosophical teaching part of it…

Alchemy is an influential philosophical tradition whose practitioners have, from antiquity, claimed it to be the precursor to profound powers.
Though alchemy played a significant role in the development of early modern science,[1] it differs significantly from modern science in its inclusion of Hermetic principles and practices related to mythology, magic, religion, and spirituality. It is recognized as a protoscience that contributed to the development of modern chemistry and medicine. Alchemists developed a structure of basic laboratory techniques, theory, terminology, and experimental method, some of which are still in use today. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alchemy

That would make better sense on why it is forbidden to practice and why modern medicine and alot of the modern science is now accepted.

 

[mikekle]

Since God intended us to have this knowledge eventually, then its not sinful to engage in the activity of trying to create gold out of lead or other materials then?

 

[TheSeeker2014]

Since God intended us to have this knowledge eventually, then its not sinful to engage in the activity of trying to create gold out of lead or other materials then?

Actually I was sure that it was somewhere in the Bible that alchemy was forbidden for humans to practice… but I am having difficulty finding it. So I am wondering if it has always been categorized with witchcraft and or ‘magic’ since the early church not because they did not understand the science but because of the associated pagan beliefs and philosophy that was associated with the study of alchemy…
Perhaps alchemy itself is not forbidden… just the pagan beliefs and philosophy that was associated long ago with the study of alchemy… such as my last post.

hmm all interesting stuff. I think I found my answer.

thanks guys!

 

[mikekle]

Actually I was sure that it was somewhere in the Bible that alchemy was forbidden for humans to practice… but I am having difficulty finding it. So I am wondering if it has always been categorized with witchcraft and or ‘magic’ since the early church not because they did not understand the science but because of the associated pagan beliefs and philosophy that was associated with the study of alchemy…
Perhaps alchemy itself is not forbidden… just the pagan beliefs and philosophy that was associated long ago with the study of alchemy… such as my last post.

hmm all interesting stuff. I think I found my answer.

thanks guys!

I have a feeling Alchemy was once understood, but somewhere along the line, mankind either lost the knowledge or how to do this successfully. If there really was nothing to it and it wasnt even possible, I doubt it would have survived for so long. I also think there are a few other tidbits of knowledge or ‘dark arts’ that humans once knew how to do and use, but for some reason, they lost this knowledge.

I tend to think to really create gold of other metals, real Alchemy probably does involve a bit of real magic, or some kind of supernatural action/ method, etc…I like to call this ‘supernatural physics’…something modern man has absolutely no clue about!

Makes me wonder though how the world would be different if mankind had all this knowledge and could actually do these things, I think world Govts would have a tough time controlling the public…who knows, maybe this is the reason no one knows about it today, maybe they keep all the books and knowledge about such things in super secret warehouses under heavy security, like places where they store other national secret objects and documents? LOL Sounds crazy, but for all we know, the truth is even stranger!!!

 

[TheSeeker2014]

I have a feeling Alchemy was once understood, but somewhere along the line, mankind either lost the knowledge or how to do this successfully. If there really was nothing to it and it wasnt even possible, I doubt it would have survived for so long. I also think there are a few other tidbits of knowledge or ‘dark arts’ that humans once knew how to do and use, but for some reason, they lost this knowledge.

I tend to think to really create gold of other metals, real Alchemy probably does involve a bit of real magic, or some kind of supernatural action/ method, etc…I like to call this ‘supernatural physics’…something modern man has absolutely no clue about!

Makes me wonder though how the world would be different if mankind had all this knowledge and could actually do these things, I think world Govts would have a tough time controlling the public…who knows, maybe this is the reason no one knows about it today, maybe they keep all the books and knowledge about such things in super secret warehouses under heavy security, like places where they store other national secret objects and documents? LOL Sounds crazy, but for all we know, the truth is even stranger!!!

Your description of the warehouse reminds me of these ‘Library’ under the Vatican i think it is or under certain Catholic Churches that no one knows what all of those books talk about… and even scrolls.

 

[mikekle]

Your description of the warehouse reminds me of these ‘Library’ under the Vatican i think it is or under certain Catholic Churches that no one knows what all of those books talk about… and even scrolls.

Yep, Id venture to bet such books/scrolls do exist, but at some point, there was an effort to get them out of the publics hands, not sure how they went about this, but they were successful, although it MAY be possible one or 2 is still somewhere out there in the world, likely sitting in some dusty old bookstore that no one would think holds such a powerful text!

Id also bet there are a few people out there that probably know more than the rest of us about such things, Id LOVE to find someone like this, Id even pay them to teach me or pay for the books/scrolls. I have a feeling the powers that be did not want this type of knowledge/ abilities in the hands of so many people, this would limit the level of control they could exert or hold over their heads, something which they absolutely need in todays world, without it, they would be powerless.