medjugorie

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Monicathree

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This past Sun. the priest referred to some of the messages that Mary is said to be giving at medjugorie, but this is not a church approved apparition, correct. I thought I heard also that one of the problematic quotes from medjugorie was that Mary supposedly says that all religions are equal. Any corrections, comments, I just thought it was a little awkward for him to be referring to this apparition as if it were, you know, church approved?!?

Peace
 
Three separate church commissions have ruled “Non-Constat Supernaturalitate,” meaning, there is nothing supernatural taking place at Medjugorje.

Bishop Ratko Peric, the Bishop of Mostar, has authority over Medjugorie. The buck stops with him. Period. This is what he has to say on the official website of the Diocese of Mostar-Duvno:

cbismo.hr/

**Note: to navigate this site, click on “Medjugorje” on the left. This will take you to the beginning of Bishop Peric’s 2004 statement. Then click on the word at the bottom of the introductory paragraph “Opširnije…” This will take you to the entire document titled, MEĐUGORJE: SECRETS, MESSAGES, VOCATIONS, PRAYERS, CONFESSIONS, COMMISSIONS by Ratko Perić, bishop of Mostar-Duvno, Feb 17, 2004.
**

Here is another condemnation by Bishop Zanic, Bishop Peric’s predecessor. This dates 1987:

newjerusalem.com/condemnation.htm

Read all about what is essentially a strong condemnation, print it, and then give it to your parish priest. He is bound by ecclesiastical obedience to obey it, and so are the faithful EVERYWHERE.

A bishop has direct authority over the geographic region of his diocese by God, and to disobey Bishop Peric in this matter is to essentially disobey the Will of God. You priest is, actually, committing a sin against the Fourth Commandment by promoting Medjugorje, an unapproved apparition, at the pulpit. He should be informed.

The reason people think Medugorie is OK is because the promoters of Medjugorie are slick and are experts at publicity and promotion. They’ve managed to seduce millions of Catholics into believing an apparition that has already been ruled upon as Non-Constat Supernaturalitate; and, hence, have seduced millions into the sin of Ecclesiastic Disobedience, a very, very serious offence in the eyes of the church.

Your priest is probably misinformed. Give him these documents, and it should correct the problem.

God Bless.
 
Here’s what Pope Benedict XVI, our wonderful German Shepherd, allegedly said regarding the events at Medjugorje:

jamaicaobserver.com/columns/html/20050423T220000-0500_79264_OBS_BENEDICT_XVI_LIKELY_TO_BE_MORE_RATIONAL_THAN_JOHN_PAUL_II.asp

An exerpt: "One priest said that during a recent visit to the Pontifical Bibilical Institute in Rome, the former Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger [Pope Benedict XVI] was strongly critical of the popular cult surrounding the Virgin of Medjugorje in Bosnia Herzegovina, describing it as a hoax."

Here’s more documentation. The first article was written by Bishop Henri Brincard. You might need to register with the website to read these three articles. Register, come back here and click ont he links. It’s easy and free, and well worth it.

catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=4314

catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=237

catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=317
 
And here’s a private site (my disclaimer) with a collection of official statements from the Church on Medjugorje, and a timeline current through 1998:

members.tripod.com/~chonak/documents/medj_index.html

Note: this is a private site and I only recommend the linked page, as I am unfamiliar with the remainder of the site.
 
I’m going to get my question in here quick before the thread gets locked: What about people who refute that some bishops have their own, not good, agendas? For instance, the bishop in Michigan that, as I hear on these forums, does not go along with Catholic teaching on the gay culture.
 
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nobody:
I’m going to get my question in here quick before the thread gets locked: What about people who refute that some bishops have their own, not good, agendas? For instance, the bishop in Michigan that, as I hear on these forums, does not go along with Catholic teaching on the gay culture.
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Those people are chosing to rasie themselves to the level of authority.

It is the Church’s job to rule on these matters. It does so though the office of the local Bishop. Sometimes the Church will form a commission to rule.

In both cases, the local Bishop, and multiple commissions have ruled consistently that nothing supernatural is occuring there.

That is the Magisterium.
 
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Monicathree:
This past Sun. the priest referred to some of the messages that Mary is said to be giving at medjugorie, but this is not a church approved apparition, correct. I thought I heard also that one of the problematic quotes from medjugorie was that Mary supposedly says that all religions are equal. Any corrections, comments, I just thought it was a little awkward for him to be referring to this apparition as if it were, you know, church approved?!?

Peace
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As a person who has actually been to Medjugorje, I think it is sad that discussions of unapproved apparitions are not allowed on these forums. Everyone I know who has ever been there came home blessed and converted. I just wanted to answer the problematic quote about all religions being equal. I’m sure that is not what she said. What she supposedly did say is that we are to respect the religions of other people - nothing is too difficult for God. I think she also said that God can handle the fact that people belong to other religions. Remember, Medjugorje is in Bosnia-Hercegovina where Catholics have been known to hate Eastern Orthodox Christians and vice versa.

These visionaries also had a vision of hell, heaven and purgatory that reminds me a lot of the vision of the Fatima children. When I was there, I was told that their official Web Site is www.medjugorje.hr. I have never seen Mass celebrated in so many languages and such long lines for confession. I’m also wondering whether or not the Church has really made an official declaration about these apparitions. I always thought that the official declaration couldn’t happen until the apparitions had ceased.
 
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Listener:
I always thought that the official declaration couldn’t happen until the apparitions had ceased.
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I’ve heard that too. So, why haven’t they ceased? After these many years and thousands of messages, why wouldn’t Mary let the church step in and make a declaration so that the world can know if these are authentic?
 
Thank you all for your responses. I totally didn’t realize we were not to talk about this. I just was thrown at mass and wanted to see what was up with it. Thanks.

peace
 
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Monicathree:
Thank you all for your responses. I totally didn’t realize we were not to talk about this. I just was thrown at mass and wanted to see what was up with it. Thanks.

peace
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Actually, I think we are allowed to talk about it, unless we get into the content of the alleged apparitions and messages.
 
Do not post material from unapproved private revelations.
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nobody:
Actually, I think we are allowed to talk about it, unless we get into the content of the alleged apparitions and messages.
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Yes. So we can’t say in this message Mary says such and such. I think a healthy debated about Medjugorie.
 
I have been watching this thread for the past two days and am happy to see most of you self-moderating. Good job guys!

For any unclear about what is or is not allowed, feel free to contact me. Problems with inappropriate content should be reported via the “Report Post” feature. Just click the http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cak/report.gif image in the problematic post and fill out the form.

Discussions about whether an apparition is approved, the church’s stance on it, and factual documentation, are OK to discuss. As such, the original topic of the appropriateness of the priest’s comments and the request for advice on how to approach the subject is perfectly acceptable.

Promoting devotion to unapproved revelations such as through a discussion of the purported message, healings, conversions, experiences, etc is not allowed.

Of note would be the following forum rules:
  • Do not view the discussion area as a vehicle for single-mindedly promoting an agenda.
  • Non-Catholics are welcome to participate but must be respectful of the faith of the Catholics participating on the board.
  • Do not post material from unapproved private revelations.
 
I hesitated posting on this thread becasue it has been discussed before, numerous times.
One thing I always follow is the advice Jesus gave to Saint Margaret Mary, and that is “obedience.”

There was disobedience in the early days, to the local Bishop, I don’'t care what fruit comes after disobedience, the original advice by the Bishop was not obeyed.

So that to me isn’t good, read the lives of the Saints, obedience is always first and foremost.

So I’ll just have to wait until the Church makes it’s final ruling, and that is, you’ll all be glad to know, is my last (name removed by moderator)ut into this thread.
 
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Eireann:
I hesitated posting on this thread becasue it has been discussed before, numerous times.
One thing I always follow is the advice Jesus gave to Saint Margaret Mary, and that is “obedience.”

There was disobedience in the early days, to the local Bishop, I don’'t care what fruit comes after disobedience, the original advice by the Bishop was not obeyed.

So that to me isn’t good, read the lives of the Saints, obedience is always first and foremost.

So I’ll just have to wait until the Church makes it’s final ruling, and that is, you’ll all be glad to know, is my last (name removed by moderator)ut into this thread.
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I’m confused. Several posters have given links to websites which I read and what I read seems to indicate the Church has disapproved the apparitions at Medjugorie but you mention a final ruling has not been made.
Can anyone tell me definitively if these Medjugorie apparitions have been approved, disapproved, or no decision made yet??
 
My understanding (someone please correct me if I am wrong) of the “church approval” process is:
  1. The local bishop recognizes that something supernatural may be happening, and asks the vatican to look into it.
  2. The vatican investigates, and, once the apparitions have stopped, studies the entire content of the message to determine if it is in agreement with church teaching.
If #1 never happens, #2 never happens.

I can understand the reasoning for waiting for the visions/messages to stop. Imagine what would happen if the church validates an on-going apparition, and THEN (perhaps by deception of people involved) a subsequent “message” disagrees with the teachings of the church.
 
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nobody:
My understanding (someone please correct me if I am wrong) of the “church approval” process is:
  1. The local bishop recognizes that something supernatural may be happening, and asks the vatican to look into it.
  2. The vatican investigates, and, once the apparitions have stopped, studies the entire content of the message to determine if it is in agreement with church teaching.
If #1 never happens, #2 never happens.

I can understand the reasoning for waiting for the visions/messages to stop. Imagine what would happen if the church validates an on-going apparition, and THEN (perhaps by deception of people involved) a subsequent “message” disagrees with the teachings of the church.
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I believe you are correct.
 
To the people who believe the apparitions are valid, what do you think about the bishop’s statement?
 
Cardinal Seper, Cardinal Ratzinger’s predecessor at CDF, published the Church’s norms for the discernment of apparitions, in 1978. Here is an (unofficial) English translation:

www.theotokos.org.uk/pages/appdisce/cdftexte.html

The Church has followed the above established norms, and has officially ruled negatively on Medjugorje.
 
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nobody:
For instance, the bishop in Michigan that, as I hear on these forums, does not go along with Catholic teaching on the gay culture.
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Yikes! I’m from Michigan! :banghead:
 
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Listener:
As a person who has actually been to Medjugorje, I think it is sad that discussions of unapproved apparitions are not allowed on these forums. Everyone I know who has ever been there came home blessed and converted. I just wanted to answer the problematic quote about all religions being equal. I’m sure that is not what she said. What she supposedly did say is that we are to respect the religions of other people - nothing is too difficult for God. I think she also said that God can handle the fact that people belong to other religions. Remember, Medjugorje is in Bosnia-Hercegovina where Catholics have been known to hate Eastern Orthodox Christians and vice versa.
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I also have been a Medjugorje - a few years ago during the middle of the Bosnia war! I can’t say it was the safest thing I’ve ever done, but it certainly was memorable. My time there was extremely peaceful and it did deepen my faith.

My understanding is that the Church has not made a final ruling on Medjugorje and this means that Catholics are free to form their own opinion. The Church has always been careful about declaring miracles and such, so it shouldn’t be held against Medjugorje that the Church hasn’t recognized it yet. For example, JP2 has not yet been declared a saint, but that doesn’t mean he isn’t one.

I understand why people would be cautious of Medjugorje and perhaps even frustrated with overwhelming Catholic support. But, I still think until the Church makes a ruling individual Catholics are free to make up their own mind without disobeying the Church.
 
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