medjugorie

[JGheen]

Tominellay:

Cardinal Seper, Cardinal Ratzinger’s predecessor at CDF, published the Church’s norms for the discernment of apparitions, in 1978. Here is an (unofficial) English translation:

www.theotokos.org.uk/pages/appdisce/cdftexte.html

The Church has followed the above established norms, and has officially ruled negatively on Medjugorje.

I tried to read through your document, but it was just too long to hold my interest.

Does it substantially disagree with the process Nobody laid out?

 

[Alison]

I just want to thank you GoldenArrow for your information on Medjugorje. I praise the Lord for someone like you because your road is thorny and uphill like Bishop Zanic’s and not everyone is willing to accept the hidden truth about Medjugorje that Bishop Zanic speaks about…I’m so sorry to God that I have been decieved, and I pray that the Church as well as Mother Mary’s beautiful name is not scandalized because of this.

You see I was a strong believer in Medgugorje for quite a long time now; and I unfortunately drew my sister in as well without even rationally thinking. At first when I heard what you had to say GoldenArrow, I took it as a major blow. I can’t imagine how much of a blow it is for someone who has actually been to Medjugorje. People do not understand how much it hurts Catholics who have been decieved…so much so that I did not want to believe it at first. But, I believe the Church and the Church has authority even over charisms, and I believe Mother Church and for Her to take a stand against such phenomenon, I am truly more amazed than I am heartbroken.
I did not want to break the news to my sister at first because she was an even bigger believer in Medgugorje after I mistakenly convinced her about it; but I prayed beforehand and the Holy Spirit guided me. I was morally bound to tell my sister whether or not I liked it. Please understand that it was a very difficult decision. So I told her.
In any case my sister heard what I had to say and I discovered that my sis is even more faithful to the Church. After she heard what I had to say, she said, pointing her finger at me: “you believe the Church right?” She saw that although I wanted to believe the Church that I had a very disappointed face and she said, “If the Church said it, the Church is right” lol I’m almost 19 and she’s only 14! Praise be to God for her. Thanks be to Catholic.com forums. To you I am so grateful. Please read what Golden Arrow has asked you to read. Do not follow blindly. This article interested me the most of Bishop Zanic:
members.tripod.com/~chonak/documents/m19900201_zanic.html

(Just a note to user Listener Yes, “Our Lady” at Medjugorje did indeed say that “all religions are equal” I read a whole compilation of an interview with every single “visionnairy” and I unfortunately, even though struggling with that particular message, believed blindly as though I mustn’t ever question this phenomenon. In this case, question it.)

 

[nobody]

JGheen:

I understand why people would be cautious of Medjugorje and perhaps even frustrated with overwhelming Catholic support. But, I still think until the Church makes a ruling individual Catholics are free to make up their own mind without disobeying the Church.

JGheen, brother or sister in Christ, I respectfully ask you: What do you think about the local bishop’s statement that it is not of supernatural origin?

Peace.

 

[Tominellay]

JGheen,
In answer to your question, the Church’s norms for the discernment of apparitions are entirely different from what Nobody understood the process to be.

Following these norms, the Church ruled negatively on Medjugorje.

 

[nobody]

Tominellay:

JGheen,
In answer to your question, the Church’s norms for the discernment of apparitions are entirely different from what Nobody understood the process to be.

It didn’t look different to me, it just included what criteria should be used, and what needs to happen before the bishop looks into it (Section I), and who can intervene (Section III).

Section I was for the local people to discern.

Section II was for the “local ordinary” which is the bishop, right?

Section III was for when other entities could intervene: the “regional or national Conference” or the “Apostolic See”

Section IV was for when the “local orndinary” raises it to the level of the “Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith”.
What was interesting was in section IV it said that the “Sacred Congregation…” could intervene in serious cases even when the bishop does not raise it to them. I would consider this a serious case.

Also, I didn’t see anywhere that the vissions must have stopped. Where did that come from? I know I at least heard in on relevant radio.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

nobody:

It didn’t look different to me, it just included what criteria should be used, and what needs to happen before the bishop looks into it (Section I), and who can intervene (Section III).

Section I was for the local people to discern.

Section II was for the “local ordinary” which is the bishop, right?

Section III was for when other entities could intervene: the “regional or national Conference” or the “Apostolic See”

Section IV was for when the “local orndinary” raises it to the level of the “Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith”.
What was interesting was in section IV it said that the “Sacred Congregation…” could intervene in serious cases even when the bishop does not raise it to them. I would consider this a serious case.

Also, I didn’t see anywhere that the vissions must have stopped. Where did that come from? I know I at least heard in on relevant radio.

The Congregation did step and and asked the national Conference to rule. That was before the break up of Yugoslavia.

Since then the Local Ordinary has twice ruled that nothing supernatural is occuring. He then refered it to the Congregation who answered back that they were satisfied with all previous rulelings.

My greatest concern is the ongoing disobedience of the Franciscans in the area. Their refusal to be obedient to the local ordinary.

I saw an expliantion about the “religions are equal” but it was a bit shaky. So how about answering this one. Mary is said to have told the “seers” to lie to the local bishop and to not do as he said. Every true apparition Mary has told the seers to be obident to the Church, even when the Church was wrong, for example Fatima.

That is just two of the many things that trouble me.

 

[GoldenArrow]

My understanding is that the Church has not made a final ruling on Medjugorje and this means that Catholics are free to form their own opinion. The Church has always been careful about declaring miracles and such, so it shouldn’t be held against Medjugorje that the Church hasn’t recognized it yet

JGheen … this isn’t personal. I’m just going to pick on you … a little bit … as an example.

**This response is typical of those who believe in Medjugorje because the promoters of Medugorje are not telling the public the whole truth on the official Medjugorie site(s). **

The promoters have a very slick, very official-looking website which is so well-done that they even have concordance of the Medjugorje messages. They also have a “Frequently Asked Questions” section that is very well-worded, to make inquirers believe that the official ruling has not yet been made. This is a lie. They also downplay the authority of the local Bishop and state that the final ruling from Rome has not yet been made, when in actuality, the Supreme Authority over the apparitions is the local bishop, who is, at present Bishop Ratko Peric. He has already made the final ruling, last updated in 2004 on the Diocese’s Official website.

I’ve read through all the Bishops’ documents and several things stood out as red flags:
1). One of the Bishops absolutely** forbade** in very stern and clear language anyone from saying Our Lady appears in Medjugorie and delivers messages. This has not been revoked. It is still in effect.
2) Some of the Franciscans who are spiritual advisors to the “visionaires” of Medjugorie have been barred from practicing priestly duties in the region. This means the confessions they hear are invalid. So … you may have seen long confession lines, but how do you know the priests hearing confessions have authority from the Bishop to forgive sins? Holy Orders gives priests powers, but there is a stipulation regarding the Sacrament of Reconcilliation: that is, that the power to forgive sins lies with the Bishop, and that power is handed down to those under the authority of a Bishop. If a priest has been barred by a bishop from practicing priestly duties then the Confessions he hears are invalid, as he has no authority to absolve sins.
3) Official pilgramages have been banned. Private devotions are the only thing that is allowed.
4) Publication of materials promoting the messages of the purported apparition, by virtue of Number 1, is also forbidden.
5) There has been longstanding, established and repeated disobedience of the laity, the visionaires, and the Franciscan priests in the parish at Medjugorje.

A LOT of Catholics don’t understand the power that a Bishop has. He receives His priestly powers DIRECTLY from God. Also, a Bishop is not actually subordinate to the Pope. A Bishop IS, however, subordinate to teachings from the Pope IN UNION with the other Bishops of the Church. The Pope combined with his Bishops is called “Magesterium.” Bishops are bound to obey the Magesterium under pain of excommunication. So are we all. So a local bishop, actually, has a LOT more power that people think they do. The promoters downplay of Bishop Perics statements are nothing more than disobeying God Himself. (By the way, if anyone can clarify this more clearly, or if I’m in error, please correct me).

The ruling of the MAGESTERIUM was, in the case of Medjugorje, in three separate Commissions: Non-Constate Supernaturalitate. In apparitions that have this ruling, dissenination of materials or statements from said apparition is forbidden.

Yet, despite three Commissions IN UNION WITH THE VATICAN people still persist in their devotion to the events in Medjugorje. The reason is, again, as I’ve stated earlier, the disobedient priests and laity promoting this apparition have gotten RICH from the purported apparitions and therefore have the money to promote the site with very slick graphics and well-written refutation of the Church’s findings.

The ONLY thing that would override any of the present findings is if the POPE made a statement that the Apparitions are approved. See, the Pope CAN override a local bishop if the issue affects the whole church. Such a statement must be published officially (that is statements found in previous Pope’s diaries don’t count. Pope John Paul II COULD HAVE overode the earlier church commissions in Medjugorje by making an official statement … in a homily … or in an official Papal letter. The key here is that he didn’t). The only hope, now, is Pope Benedict XVI, and it is my opinion that the current Holy Father will NEVER override the findings of three church commissions, nor the rulings of the local bishops in the case of Medjugorje. Our German Shepherd is NOT likely to change his mind.

 

[GoldenArrow]

Alison,

God Bless You!

I was, at one time, a visionary chaser. I’d read messages from not-yet-ruled upon visionaries. It started as a hobby at first. Then I got obsessed with the messages. I threw in the towel when some of my favorite “visionaries” started saying very heinous things about Pope Benedict XVI. I’ll not repeat them out of respect for the Holy Father.

So … I gave up apparition chasing. I got a little depressed for awhile, knowing I’d been deceived.

Fortunately, Medjugorje, wasn’t amongst the apparitions I’d chased. I was blessed enough to come across some of the wierder statements of The Lady at Medjugorje first, so I didn’t follow the apparitions.

I am encouraged by your change of heart. I’ve found that it’s very difficult to break people away from the Medjugorie devotion. If I helped just one or two people break away, then the hours I’ve spent researching and posting on this subject is well worth it.

By the way, I don’t despise prophecy. I have a very great devotion to Our Lady of Guadalupe and Our Lady of Fatima, but especially the former. It is said that when the Catholic Missionaries arrived in what is now Mexico, to convert the pagan Mayan Indians, they’d found that the Indians already knew the Catholic faith, catechised by Our Lady of Guadalupe. It was a miracle because no missionaires were living in the region. I also LOVE the story of Juan Diego, and am fascinated by the images recently discovered relecting in the eyes of the Virgin … the images of those supposedly present when Juan revealed the image of the Madonna that had miraculously appeared on his tilma. That is, the painting itself descended from Heaven.

I don’t despise Our Lady, either. I’m even enrolled in the family of Our Lady of Mt. Carmel (the scapular devotion).

Judging by past apparitions, I’ve noted that the Real Virgin Mary speaks in few words. She doesn’t blabber on and on and on. She spoke in few words at Fatima, Lourdes, Akita (partial approval), and Guadalupe, and is not at Medjugorje. The Lady at Medjugorje blabbers a lot, and is very redundant.

I wish people would spend less time reading the messages of Medjugorje and spend more time reading the Catechism and the Bible. I’ve found that I get more spiritual growth by simply reading Papal Encyclicals and studying established dogmas, bible studies, catechisms, versus reading the latest visionary message. One bad fruit of Medjugorje is distraction from the real faith.

Anyway, God Bless you!

 

[Listener]

One of the documents used in this thread as proof of the Church’s negative opinion of Medjugorje has the following at the bottom:

“The present norms, defined in the plenary Congregation of this Sacred Congregation, were approved by the Sovereign Pontiff, Pope Paul VI, on February 24 1978.”
**
I would like to point out that the apparitions in Medjugorje didn’t start until 1981, so how could this be the official document against Medjugorje? It looks to me that it is just a set of guidelines for the Church to use in judging apparitions in general.

As far as the priests hearing confessions at Medjugorje are concerned, I don’t think that it would be fair to judge these priests as not having the power to hear confessions. I think they probably came from all over the world. On a typical weekday, there would be a Mass in English. The next Mass would be maybe in German. The next one would maybe be in French. One of the priests concelebrating at one of the Masses I was at was from the United States. There were hundreds of people in the confession lines and more confessionals than I have ever seen. It would have been impossible for all of those priests to be local priests that had their faculties taken away by their bishops.

During the same trip that our tour group was in Medjugorje, we also were at St. Peter’s in Rome. At St. Peters, there were confessionals available in different languages. Almost no one was lined up to go to confession. Since these priests could have easily been from outside Rome, do you think that they had no power to hear confessions, since they probably weren’t in their own dioceses?
*

 

[SummaTheo]

Apparitions True and False

FATHER PETER JOSEPH

This is a great article about private apparitions. It also goes into to great depths about what Lucifer can do to trick people even creating stigmata.

It is forbidden, as well as sinful, to propagate private revelations which have received a negative judgement from the local Bishop, the conference of Bishops, or the Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. Some people say, “I’m going to follow it until the Pope says it’s false.” This is a useless guide for action in this matter - very rarely does the Pope make a pronouncement for or against a revelation.

unitypublishing.com/Apparitions/FatherTrueFalse.htm

 

[nobody]

Listener, brother or sister in Christ, I respectfully ask you: What do you think about the local bishop’s statement that it is not of supernatural origin?

 

[Listener]

nobody:

Listener, brother or sister in Christ, I respectfully ask you: What do you think about the local bishop’s statement that it is not of supernatural origin?

Where did you get the idea that everything a bishop says has to be of supernatural origin? If I remember right, the bishops didn’t think much of Fatima, Lourdes, and Guadalaupe at first. The Fatima children were questioned thoroughly and accused of lying. The Church originally had a negative opinion about Padre Pio. It is smart politics for a bishop to tell people to stay away from an apparition. After all, if he said he believed in it, and later he turned out to be wrong, it wouldn’t look so good. Part of the reason I am fascinated by Medjugorje is because years ago, I saw a film of the visionaries actually having the apparitions. It was so amazing that I decided that they couldn’t have made that up. If some negative spirit was causing it, why would millions of people be converted? The same film showed the local bishop - and he was doing his job by being skeptical of the whole thing. After all, if he hadn’t had the vision himself, how would he know if it was true or not? If you had some sort of a supernatural vision, and then you disobeyed your bishop for some reason, how would your act of disobedience make the vision false?

 

[SummaTheo]

But the devils can do the following:

(1) Produce corporeal or imaginative visions;

(2) Falsify ecstasy;

(3) Instantaneously cure sicknesses that have been caused by diabolical influence;

(4) Produce the stigmata;

(5) Simulate miracles and the phenomena of levitation and bilocation;(6) Make people or objects seem to disappear by interfering with a person’s sight or line of vision;

(7) Cause a person to hear sounds or voices;

(8) Cause a person to speak in tongues;
(9) Declare a fact which is hidden or distant.

 

[Catherine_Grant]

SummaTheo:

But the devils can do the following:

(1) Produce corporeal or imaginative visions;

(2) Falsify ecstasy;

(3) Instantaneously cure sicknesses that have been caused by diabolical influence;

(4) Produce the stigmata;

(5) Simulate miracles and the phenomena of levitation and bilocation;(6) Make people or objects seem to disappear by interfering with a person’s sight or line of vision;

(7) Cause a person to hear sounds or voices;

(8) Cause a person to speak in tongues;
(9) Declare a fact which is hidden or distant.

**Which, I will remind the board, is why we forbid discussion of unapproved revelations on the forums. **

Discussions about whether an apparition is approved, the church’s stance on it, and factual documentation, are OK to discuss. As such, the original topic of the appropriateness of the priest’s comments and the request for advice on how to approach the subject is perfectly acceptable.

Promoting devotion to unapproved revelations such as through a discussion of the purported message, healings, conversions, experiences, etc is not allowed.

Of note would be the following forum rules:

• Do not view the discussion area as a vehicle for single-mindedly promoting an agenda.
• Non-Catholics are welcome to participate but must be respectful of the faith of the Catholics participating on the board.
• Do not post material from unapproved private revelations.

 

[nobody]

Listener:

Where did you get the idea that everything a bishop says has to be of supernatural origin? If I remember right, the bishops didn’t think much of Fatima, Lourdes, and Guadalaupe at first. The Fatima children were questioned thoroughly and accused of lying. The Church originally had a negative opinion about Padre Pio. It is smart politics for a bishop to tell people to stay away from an apparition. After all, if he said he believed in it, and later he turned out to be wrong, it wouldn’t look so good.

Sorry, my grammar was poor.

I meant, what do you think of the bishop’s statement that the visions and messages are not of supernatural origin?

 

[Eireann]

thistle:

I’m confused. Several posters have given links to websites which I read and what I read seems to indicate the Church has disapproved the apparitions at Medjugorie but you mention a final ruling has not been made.
Can anyone tell me definitively if these Medjugorie apparitions have been approved, disapproved, or no decision made yet??

Ok I’m back tracking on my original plan not to discuss this, but just to be polite I’ll answer.
Does anyone know if were allowed to PM unapproved links ?

According to one of our priests, who is strangely enough only a priest because of Medjugorje, he said only a few weks ago in Church, that Medjugorje is only at the half way stage.

I don’t want to be drawn into a discussion on it, people will say like my best friend and his wife, “well look at the fruits, this man became a priest because of it.”

There are others I’m sure who have joined the priesthood because of this movement.

Well God can take good out of even bad situations, so the evil one maybe I don’t know, has shot himself in the foot with this, one of the longest on-going Apparations of our time.
I’ve checked numerous alledged Apparations and seers, I read the messages of Medjugorje, and it only took one thing to turn me off it, and that is what I posted up above.

And someone telling me, “oh ! you must believe it” makes me think, no I musn’t believe it, faith doesn’t work that way, I could go to an athesist and say oh you must believe.

Anyway I could point you to different links, but as were not allowed to do that on here, then I won’t.
At the end of the day, the original fruits of that place smacked of disobedience, and that to me is not a good fruit, regardless of what ever comes after.
And even if the Church does rule favorably on it, that doesn’t mean we have to hop on the next plane and be there.
I go to Eucharistic adoration every Tuesday and the Holy Tabernacle suffices for me.

If anyone believes in it, fine by me, all I’m saying is for me at least, obedience is my stumbling block to accepting whatever is going on out there. :bible1:

 

[thistle]

GoldenArrow:

JGheen … this isn’t personal. I’m just going to pick on you … a little bit … as an example.

**This response is typical of those who believe in Medjugorje because the promoters of Medugorje are not telling the public the whole truth on the official Medjugorie site(s). **

The promoters have a very slick, very official-looking website which is so well-done that they even have concordance of the Medjugorje messages. They also have a “Frequently Asked Questions” section that is very well-worded, to make inquirers believe that the official ruling has not yet been made. This is a lie. They also downplay the authority of the local Bishop and state that the final ruling from Rome has not yet been made, when in actuality, the Supreme Authority over the apparitions is the local bishop, who is, at present Bishop Ratko Peric. He has already made the final ruling, last updated in 2004 on the Diocese’s Official website.

I’ve read through all the Bishops’ documents and several things stood out as red flags:
1). One of the Bishops absolutely** forbade** in very stern and clear language anyone from saying Our Lady appears in Medjugorie and delivers messages. This has not been revoked. It is still in effect.
2) Some of the Franciscans who are spiritual advisors to the “visionaires” of Medjugorie have been barred from practicing priestly duties in the region. This means the confessions they hear are invalid. So … you may have seen long confession lines, but how do you know the priests hearing confessions have authority from the Bishop to forgive sins? Holy Orders gives priests powers, but there is a stipulation regarding the Sacrament of Reconcilliation: that is, that the power to forgive sins lies with the Bishop, and that power is handed down to those under the authority of a Bishop. If a priest has been barred by a bishop from practicing priestly duties then the Confessions he hears are invalid, as he has no authority to absolve sins.
3) Official pilgramages have been banned. Private devotions are the only thing that is allowed.
4) Publication of materials promoting the messages of the purported apparition, by virtue of Number 1, is also forbidden.
5) There has been longstanding, established and repeated disobedience of the laity, the visionaires, and the Franciscan priests in the parish at Medjugorje.

A LOT of Catholics don’t understand the power that a Bishop has. He receives His priestly powers DIRECTLY from God. Also, a Bishop is not actually subordinate to the Pope. A Bishop IS, however, subordinate to teachings from the Pope IN UNION with the other Bishops of the Church. The Pope combined with his Bishops is called “Magesterium.” Bishops are bound to obey the Magesterium under pain of excommunication. So are we all. So a local bishop, actually, has a LOT more power that people think they do. The promoters downplay of Bishop Perics statements are nothing more than disobeying God Himself. (By the way, if anyone can clarify this more clearly, or if I’m in error, please correct me).

The ruling of the MAGESTERIUM was, in the case of Medjugorje, in three separate Commissions: Non-Constate Supernaturalitate. In apparitions that have this ruling, dissenination of materials or statements from said apparition is forbidden.

Yet, despite three Commissions IN UNION WITH THE VATICAN people still persist in their devotion to the events in Medjugorje. The reason is, again, as I’ve stated earlier, the disobedient priests and laity promoting this apparition have gotten RICH from the purported apparitions and therefore have the money to promote the site with very slick graphics and well-written refutation of the Church’s findings.

The ONLY thing that would override any of the present findings is if the POPE made a statement that the Apparitions are approved. See, the Pope CAN override a local bishop if the issue affects the whole church. Such a statement must be published officially (that is statements found in previous Pope’s diaries don’t count. Pope John Paul II COULD HAVE overode the earlier church commissions in Medjugorje by making an official statement … in a homily … or in an official Papal letter. The key here is that he didn’t). The only hope, now, is Pope Benedict XVI, and it is my opinion that the current Holy Father will NEVER override the findings of three church commissions, nor the rulings of the local bishops in the case of Medjugorje. Our German Shepherd is NOT likely to change his mind.

This sounds pretty clear and definitive to me. The apparitions/messages are not approved.

 

[Hildebrand]

QUOTE=Listener]Everyone I know who has ever been there came home blessed and converted.

Pilgrimages/retreats tend to have those results. If a person is open to the Holy Spirit, one would think the Holy Spirit will work within that person. Those who go there and are truly and fully converted have no malice, ill-intent, or deception in their hearts. Why would God reject their sincere efforts?

I would take exception to a “conversion” that involves a strong inclination to disobedience and borderline potential schism.

When you ask about Medjugorje, it reminds us of a good friend of ours who we asked why he goes every year to an apparition that has been condemned by the Church. He said that he felt so much holiness there that it could not be false. He said that hundreds of people prayed rosaries in candlelight processions all night long. There were priests to hear confessions all day. There were images of the “virgin” that came out in his photographs at the site of the visions. There were rosaries that turned to gold. There were cures of the body and of the soul. He said, “I would rather believe in God than man.” Of course, what he means, without knowing it, is that he would rather believe the seer than the Church. That apparition is Bayside, New York.

What’s interesting is that those who believe in Medjugorje, do not believe in Bayside; and those who believe in Bayside, do not believe in Medjugorje. But the reasons they give for believing are the same - fruits.

http://www.unitypublishing.com/apr27_99.html

---

An issue never addressed is how Medjugorie became so big and so popular in so little time. I don’t have the answer for that question, but I think it is very important in understanding the whole movement. I do know Franciscan University of Steubenville was publishing and distributing prayer cards with a picture of Mary, Queen of Peace from Medugorje back in 1983.

The larger print images say:

"Queen of Peace

• Print of an original painting by Andelko Mikulic

The artist’s depiction of Mary, Queen of Peace, is based upon his impression and experience of Mary while he was present with the visionaries …] in …] Medugorje, Yugoslavia.

…] The cross at the upper right locates the reported apparitions in the village of Medugorje, …]

Prints are available from the Franciscan University Press, Franciscan University of Steubenville, Steubenville, OH 43952."

Link to the image only: http://www.medjugorje.hr/megospa2.gif

The smaller prayer cards include “Copyright 1983 Franciscan University Press.”

To this day, Franciscan University of Steubenville still has a Medugorje advocate as their Marian theologian professor. Others at FUS (staff, students, and former students) are advocates of Medugorje too.

EWTN pick up on it somewhere (perhaps from people influenced by Franciscan University) and has had many pro-Medugorje programs and some pro-Garabandal programs. These programs stopped airing in the past 5-10 years.

People are going to be attracted to the new and latest apparitions, stigmatists, weeping statues, and the rest. They desire to feel apart of something new. That is why many ignore the valid places of pilgrimages (the most important being your local parish’s tabernacle). But, not only that, there’s Shrine of Sainte-Anne-de-Beaupré in Canada, the National Shrine of The Divine Mercy in Connecticut, and many other shrines/places of pilgrimage across North America. Then there is Lourdes, Fatima, the Vatican, and many, many others in Europe.

Please don’t use Padre Pio as an excuse. Padre Pio did not go parish hopping showing off his stigmata. He was generally recognized as a holy person by the masses, a modern Cure d-Ares. He did not lobby for all the attention. And he was obedient to his superiors. There was a time when Padre Pio was ordered not to say mass publicly or hear confessions. How did he respond to such a harsh order? Padre Pio did not say, “I am not going to listen to you guys. Based on higher authority, I have the power to say mass publicly and to administer the sacrament of penance. I’ll do what I want. I’ll do what the voices in my head tell me to do or the images I see tell me to do.” Padre Pio’s superiors were not even local bishops and he listened to them and obeyed them.

Why don’t people obey the bishops when it comes to private revelations? Bishops don’t have jurisdiction to change doctrine, dogma, or Church policy/direct orders from the pope. They do have jurisdiction over these local matters.

 

[Troy7]

I used to be a follower of Medjugorie…until last year when I realized the church has finally spoken against it. The one avenue I disagree with the church on and feel THEY themselves are causing confusion is that they are ruling NOTHING supernatural is occurring…they couldnt be more wrong and that is why people are choosing to believe their OWN EYES rather than the churchs words. The Church NEEDS to ADMIT that supernatural stuff IS happening…but that it is from the DEVIL. I dont know why the church continues to be its own worst enemy with its constant “ambiguousness” in many things.

I came to believe in “M” thru a protestant author who really helped to get those messages out there…his name is Wayne Wieble(sp?) I wonder, after all these years, has he now converted? Does he still follow? anyone have info on this guy?

 

[nobody]

Perhaps I should start another thread with this question, but I’ll try it here, first.

What is the plan to get the information to the people of the Church when a “ruling” is made on an apparition/vision/message?