Medjugorje - A True Confession

[Mijoy2]

Dj Roy Albert:

Why? We know that our Heavenly Father sent angels as messengers in the days before Christ, so why would He now not send the Queen of angels to help guide His people toward His Son & His Church?

Do not doubt Fatima & Lourdes, the Church has approved them. Remember that our Blessed Mother always points us to her son Jesus, there’s no doubt about that.

As far as Medjugorje, I know of several people that have come back to the Church after visiting there back in the 80’s, but I must wait for the Church’s approval of the alleged apparitions before I could say more.

This is why:

I have read a number of books on Medjugorje, most notably The Miracle Detective. What I took away from reading that book was that one of four things are occuring in Medjugorje.

1 hoax
2 devil
3 paranormal experience as of yet unexplained by modern science
4 real apparition

Of course, I’d love to believe it’s #4. But let’s disregard it for this discussion. This of course leaves 1,2 and 3. After reading Sullivans book I simply cannot believe it is #1. There is overwhelming evidence against this. Too much to get into.

This leaves # 2 and # 3. Of these two I’d prefer it be #2. This may seem warped logic, but if it is #2, this means the devil exists which in turn means God exists and this is a boost to my faith. However if it is #2 the devil’s plan seems to have backfired because many millions have been converted through the Medjugorje experience. I’m led to believe the devil is not stupid. If it’s #2 or #3 I lean heavily towards #3.

If it’s #3, this is a pretty amazing phenomenon. (regardless of which number it is what is going on is amazing). Here lays the problem. Once I believe it may be #3, doubts emerge about other apparitions. I do not believe, at all, the six seers in Medjugorje are deliberate liars. If they are they have pulled off the most amazing hoax ever known to mankind and they did it as simple minded young teens. They have not waivered and have carried this lie to the present day. They pray many hours a day and fall into deep trances during these appariions. Wouldn’t the concience of at least one of them have broken them by now? If it is not supernatural, then there is some force, electromagnetic or otherwise, that engulfed all six simultaneously. There is some natural force, yet unknown that enables a number of people to be taken in and expereince similiar, nearly identical halloucinations. Possibly it begins with one and transmits to the others.

Yet if this is the case, why would I not begin to think that this is what occured in all other apparitions?

Medjugorje, has created it’s very own trial. If the seers die before the proposed events occur, it was most certainly false. The decision making on the churches part, is easy, if they wait long enough. I think they will, I wouldn’t be in a hurry to expect a definitive decision.

Medjugorje, may not be a genuine apparition, but it is also not a hoax deliberately perpertrated by the six seers.

 

[Fergal]

I have prayed so much about this one, read so much, listened so much and tried so hard to understand and accept. Our Blessed Mother knows how hard I have struggled with this one question.

I have so many friends here who thoroughly believe and have been to Medj many, many times. The Parish has a weekly ‘Fr Slavko’ style Holy Hour and a weekly youth meeting etc… all Medj style. There is a very solid nucleus of folk here who follow its every whim.There is a twice yearly pilgrimage from here to Medj and one of our Curates even wears vestements with the unofficial ‘Lady of Medj’ image on them. I find it all so difficult but maintain patience with it.

I have been there twice and have to say I have come away so confused and uneasy. The fruits I have seen include watching a friend take a nervous breakdown whilst on pilgrimage, loosing a friend who I shared a room with there through suicide and recently have seen 3 marriages end badly. The only connection with all these folk is Medj. Fruits??? I dunno but there is only one thread as far as I can see.

I apologise to all you ‘devotees’ of medj for posting this but I think if you are truly devoted to this place you will accept these posts as well as all the good that has been published. Zeal never lends itself to rudeness.

Of course I leave the place and its happenings in the hands of Holy Mother Church, and as far as I am concerned the locan ordinary has spoken. I for one will certainly have no part in organising or being a part of anything that bears its name.

Since I have shown reservations and have openly professed my reservations I have been left to my own devices. I have lost these friends and their valued closeness and spiritual comfort and now when we meet our conversations have become so superficial.

I urge caution and much much prayer for wisdom and discernment.

 

[Genesis315]

Mijoy2:

This is why:

I have read a number of books on Medjugorje, most notably The Miracle Detective. What I took away from reading that book was that one of four things are occuring in Medjugorje.

1 hoax
2 devil
3 paranormal experience as of yet unexplained by modern science
4 real apparition

Of course, I’d love to believe it’s #4. But let’s disregard it for this discussion.

How does this explanation cast doubt on Lourdes and Fatima when you through out the possibility of true apparation for no reason at the very beginning?

 

[Mijoy2]

Genesis315:

How does this explanation cast doubt on Lourdes and Fatima when you through out the possibility of true apparation for no reason at the very beginning?

Excellent question, I apologoze for the confusion. My explaination doesn’t, in itself, cast doubt on Fatima and Lourdes, it casts doubt on the possiblity of apparitions. All apparitions. The controrvesry of Medjugorje, yields evidence for a reasonable explaination for apparitions other then visitation of our Blessed Mother. In my mind, from my exploration, if Medjugorje is false, so may be all others. Not becuse Medjugorje is corrupt, but because it is not.

Hope I am clear.

And I not only welcome other opinions, I ask for them. Private messages are more then welcome.

 

[Genesis315]

Mijoy2:

Excellent question, I apologoze for the confusion. My explaination doesn’t, in itself, cast doubt on Fatima and Lourdes, it casts doubt on the possiblity of apparitions. All apparitions. The controrvesry of Medjugorje, yields evidence for a reasonable explaination for apparitions other then visitation of our Blessed Mother. In my mind, from my exploration, if Medjugorje is false, so may be all others. Not becuse Medjugorje is corrupt, but because it is not.

Hope I am clear.

And I not only welcome other opinions, I ask for them. Private messages are more then welcome.

I get your point now. Just because it’s doctrinally sound and not a hoax, doesn’t mean it’s necessarily an apparition.

 

[Mijoy2]

Genesis315:

I get your point now. Just because it’s doctrinally sound and not a hoax, doesn’t mean it’s necessarily an apparition.

Wow, you said it in a sentence, I have to use long confusing paragraphs. Yes, that is my point and I find it disappointing. I desperatly want to believe.

Actually I extend this concept to all our Faith. Just what are we capable of?

 

[MarieMarie103]

I sent this message to Catholic Answers forum yesterday (no response, it never posted actually) and today I found this thread. This is what I wrote:

I know that the Church has not approved Medjugorje, but there are many (false?) claims that Pope John Paul II was in support of the apparitions there.
I find it hard to believe that the Blessed Mother would say some of the things the ‘seers’ claim she said.

The local bishop, actually, two in a row, have stated that these apparitions are not from God. I read a recent detailed letter written by Ratko Perić, bishop of Mostar-Duvno, in February of 2004 that strongly states his case against Medjugorje. Link to letter: cbismo.hr/DHTMLFiles/Opsirnije.asp?P=7

Some of the supposed messages from Our Lady seem to be against the Church.

For example, she has condemned the bishop to the ‘seers’ for not believing as well as stating that two priests that he reprimanded was wrong and they should be reinstated. In every Church approved private revelation, Mary and/or Jesus stress the importance of obedience to superiors within the Church. Would our Blessed Mother say such things?

In addition, the following message from a pro Medjugorje website confuses me:

“The visionaries quote Our Lady as saying, *“All religions are to be respected.” *and “Members of all faiths are equal before God. God rules over each faith just like a sovereign over his kingdom,”
Her message of conversion is not one of becoming a ‘convert’ in the sense of changing religions but one of personal, spiritual transformation. A transformation which is necessary to find peace and to bring peace into the world.”

Why would anyone stay or become Catholic if it simply doesn’t matter? Catholicism is a difficult faith due to many. Many do not wish to adhere to Church teachings. Doesn’t this let people ‘off the hook’? The Catholic Church is supposed to be the Church Jesus founded during his ministry on earth. Why would his Mother claim that it doesn’t matter? What about receiving the Eucharist? This message sounds very ‘New Age’ to me.

There are so many more ‘messages’ that are along the same vein.

My question(s) is: these apparitions have been going on for many years (totaling 33,320 messages between the six seers as of early 2004)! (Would Mary be so redundant?)

The Church does not approve (or disapprove) private revelation until they stop, correct? But, if the messages are against the Church, even subtly so, why doesn’t the Church comment now?

I know many have responded to Medjugorje, true apparitions or not, with conversion or deeper faith. What if these conversions are based on false apparitions? Will the converts and faithful turn against the Church if they find the apparitions to be false?

---

In response to the post that if he can’t believe Medjugorje, he can’t believe in Fatima nor Lourdes:
I absolutely believe this may be the work of the evil one, and not some undiscovered phenomena. Why? As I stated in my original letter to this site above, think about it…all those who converted and/or have deepened faith because of Medj. are more inclined to turn against the Church if they disapprove of the site. Already they are against the local Church authority! What a coup on the side of evil, to use good as a means to an evil end.

 

[Catholics4Life]

I too was one of those people who allowed Medjugorje to influence my faith. I was young when I first heard about it and many from my church took a pilmgrimage there and came back excited and full of faith. I thought to myself, “This is proof!”, and I thought it was somehow proof of God Himself. I realize now though that it probably is not real, mainly due to the lying by the seers and the disobedience. I don’t understand why the seers would lie? Even the children at Fatima did not back down nor did they change their story, even when threatened. The seers have said one thing though, and then said something to contradict it. To give one of many examples, they said they were not aware of their surrondings during an appartition and then lied when someone tested this claim. Learning these things has caused some doubt, but ulitimately led me to a deeper understanding and a much deeper faith. I know now to trust God’s Church as the truth, and I should not follow the words of inviduals who disobey the authority of the Church. So in that aspect, this situation has led me closer to God and taught me a lesson about following and looking for miracles. I believe what the Church says because God gave them that authority “I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.” Matthew 16:19

I believe the Church can not lead us astray, and when they speak on a matter with authority, we should believe and listen, because it is the Holy Spirit Himself who guides the Church into truth.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Lux:

Thank you very much for this informative thread. Our pastor, whose orthodoxy I would vehemently defend, was and may still be a Medjugorje devotee (he’s gone there and I think he took a group once, but I can’t remember). One of the seers came here to Las Vegas and spoke at our church (I wasn’t there). The pastor has made mention that since Our Lady always spoke to this seer at a particular time of day, then She had really come to our church, since the seer was there then and had been praying in the church. I’ve had an uneasy feeling about this, but I doubt I’ll say anything to him. He’s a great man and I’m sure he toe the line the Church tells him to.

 

[Fergal]

If we truly believe that the Mass is all that it claims to be and that the true presence of our Lord Jesus Christ resides in the Tabernacle within all our Catholic Churches, then we can be very assured that Our Blessed Mother is there as is the whole company of Heaven since, as our late Holy Father pointed out, the “eschatological tension” inherent in the Eucharist “expresses and reinforces our communion with the Church in heaven”

Her presence in our Churches does not depend on the presence of a mere human visionary no matter who they may be. Mary’s presence on our Churches depends on the turn presence of Christ in our Churches.

The fanaticism surrounding and supported by Medj is pityable.

 

[STIOFAN]

MarieMarie103:

I sent this message to Catholic Answers forum yesterday (no response, it never posted actually) and today I found this thread. This is what I wrote:

I know that the Church has not approved Medjugorje, but there are many (false?) claims that Pope John Paul II was in support of the apparitions there.
I find it hard to believe that the Blessed Mother would say some of the things the ‘seers’ claim she said.

The local bishop, actually, two in a row, have stated that these apparitions are not from God. I read a recent detailed letter written by Ratko Perić, bishop of Mostar-Duvno, in February of 2004 that strongly states his case against Medjugorje. Link to letter: cbismo.hr/DHTMLFiles/Opsirnije.asp?P=7

Some of the supposed messages from Our Lady seem to be against the Church.

For example, she has condemned the bishop to the ‘seers’ for not believing as well as stating that two priests that he reprimanded was wrong and they should be reinstated. In every Church approved private revelation, Mary and/or Jesus stress the importance of obedience to superiors within the Church. Would our Blessed Mother say such things?

In addition, the following message from a pro Medjugorje website confuses me:

“The visionaries quote Our Lady as saying, *“All religions are to be respected.” *and “Members of all faiths are equal before God. God rules over each faith just like a sovereign over his kingdom,”
Her message of conversion is not one of becoming a ‘convert’ in the sense of changing religions but one of personal, spiritual transformation. A transformation which is necessary to find peace and to bring peace into the world.”

Why would anyone stay or become Catholic if it simply doesn’t matter? Catholicism is a difficult faith due to many. Many do not wish to adhere to Church teachings. Doesn’t this let people ‘off the hook’? The Catholic Church is supposed to be the Church Jesus founded during his ministry on earth. Why would his Mother claim that it doesn’t matter? What about receiving the Eucharist? This message sounds very ‘New Age’ to me.

There are so many more ‘messages’ that are along the same vein.

My question(s) is: these apparitions have been going on for many years (totaling 33,320 messages between the six seers as of early 2004)! (Would Mary be so redundant?)

The Church does not approve (or disapprove) private revelation until they stop, correct? But, if the messages are against the Church, even subtly so, why doesn’t the Church comment now?

I know many have responded to Medjugorje, true apparitions or not, with conversion or deeper faith. What if these conversions are based on false apparitions? Will the converts and faithful turn against the Church if they find the apparitions to be false?

---

In response to the post that if he can’t believe Medjugorje, he can’t believe in Fatima nor Lourdes:
I absolutely believe this may be the work of the evil one, and not some undiscovered phenomena. Why? As I stated in my original letter to this site above, think about it…all those who converted and/or have deepened faith because of Medj. are more inclined to turn against the Church if they disapprove of the site. Already they are against the local Church authority! What a coup on the side of evil, to use good as a means to an evil end.

Well put, :tiphat:

 

[STIOFAN]

Catholics4Life:

I too was one of those people who allowed Medjugorje to influence my faith. I was young when I first heard about it and many from my church took a pilmgrimage there and came back excited and full of faith. I thought to myself, “This is proof!”, and I thought it was somehow proof of God Himself. I realize now though that it probably is not real, mainly due to the lying by the seers and the disobedience. I don’t understand why the seers would lie? Even the children at Fatima did not back down nor did they change their story, even when threatened. The seers have said one thing though, and then said something to contradict it. To give one of many examples, they said they were not aware of their surrondings during an appartition and then lied when someone tested this claim. Learning these things has caused some doubt, but ulitimately led me to a deeper understanding and a much deeper faith. I know now to trust God’s Church as the truth, and I should not follow the words of inviduals who disobey the authority of the Church. So in that aspect, this situation has led me closer to God and taught me a lesson about following and looking for miracles. I believe what the Church says because God gave them that authority “I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.” Matthew 16:19

I believe the Church can not lead us astray, and when they speak on a matter with authority, we should believe and listen, because it is the Holy Spirit Himself who guides the Church into truth.

 

[ames61]

MarieMarie103:

In response to the post that if he can’t believe Medjugorje, he can’t believe in Fatima nor Lourdes:
I absolutely believe this may be the work of the evil one, and not some undiscovered phenomena. Why? As I stated in my original letter to this site above, think about it…all those who converted and/or have deepened faith because of Medj. are more inclined to turn against the Church if they disapprove of the site. Already they are against the local Church authority! What a coup on the side of evil, to use good as a means to an evil end.

:yup:
From saint-mike.org/apologetics/qa/Answers/Spiritual_Warfare/s0207090052.html

The presence of alleged miracles, wonders, good works, changed lives, etc. are NOT, in-and-of-themselves, proof that the apparition is truly supernatural. Even Satan can appear as an angel of light and has no problem allowing positive effects if it will eventually lead some people in the wrong direction. History proves that private revelations can have positive effects and still be invalid.

:yup:
This apparation has caused me some distress because my aunt and Godmother is a strong believer in its authenticity, and yet it kind of gives me the willies. So much strife and dissension coming from Our Lady? And yet if parts of the local church were corrupt you would expect her to cause dissension to the corruption. So it would come down to the faithfulness of the Local Ordinary. As the Church has not said anything contrary to the presumption of the Local Ordinary’s faithfulness, I guess I have a wait and see attitude. Frankly I wouldn’t care that much, other than my aunts devotion, and my concern about her reaction if it was proved to be false, which would play into the two quotes above. Therein lies the danger. As for me, I’ll wait for the Church’s definitive judgment.

 

[allhers]

As for me, I’ll wait for the Church’s definitive judgment. -me too, no matter what anyone else says.

 

[Saint_Andrew]

Hello

Having been there myself, I can see it being authenticated in years to come, Bishops are humans at the end of the day and no one is perfect, having felt innerpeace there, remember that nobody in this world is perfect and I never met anybody perfect and free from sin.

The faith there is great, when I came back to England I do not feel that innerpeace why you ask? reply because there is diversity of things that occur here and people are aiming at things which are meaningless to God.

I await the Church decison as well, but when I been to Lourdes the peace is there but not as strong as in Medjugorje, I keep a open mind, the 5 stones to fight evil which is mentioned there, cannot be a contradictory statement.

When there is strong faith, temptation is always there trying to destroy it.

God has forgiven you and myself and others.

God Bless you
Saint Andrew.

THIS CAN BE A TOUCHY SUBJECT. PLEASE BE CHARITABLE IN YOUR RESPONSES TO EACH OTHER OR I WILL REQUEST THE THREAD BE CLOSED! THANK YOU FOR COOPERATING.

In November 1980 to February of 1983 I was in a convent in Hercegovina right near the site of Medjugorje. In fact, the sisters from my order served the parish of St. James.

I had been skeptical in the early going, then was leaning towards authenticity when I was cranking out 14,000 hosts personally for a three day period. And, watching confession lines with dozens of priests, kids fasting and passing up discos while singing Marian songs as they walked to the church for mass each night, etc.

I recall my fellow Franciscan sisters and priests talking about a rift between the diocesan authorities and the Franciscan order, but did not understand it until I began looking into it now, 20 years later.

After much research, I am much disturbed after seeing my own contempt for the local authority, Bishop Zanic and his successor Bishop Peric, and concluded it was a bad seed - the contempt that is.

After reading more information and balancing it out with all of the good, I have come to a conclusion for myself that it is either a hoax or diabolical. This is not to say that good people aren’t finding God through their prayers there, but I cannot for the life of me understand how Our Lady would ever sanction disobedience disrespect, contempt, malice, defamation - in the name of “Queen of Peace”, all aimed at the Local Ordinary, who stuck well within the bounds of church doctrine. It would be one thing if the Bishops had told the kids to go commit murder. I mean, outright lying and pitting the Blessed Mother against the local bishop is unfathomable, and there is plenty of documentation that the “seers” did just this.

That right there got me. Next thing I knew, I found myself in confession emptying my closet for sinning against a Bishop whose diocese I resided in over 20 years ago. I compounded this as I continued to badmouth the guy anytime the subject of Medjugorje came up.

When the light bulb finally went on, I realized I had not only sinned against the Bishop, but had sinned against the Holy Spirit for not trusting Him to guide the Local Ordinary as is one of our core beliefs in such matters. Even Padre Pio stopped saying mass publicly when ordered to do so by his local authority. Ditto with St. Faustina whom Jesus told to always follow Mother Superior even before Him, and she was put to the test.

Trust in the Holy Spirit without obedience and trust in the Local Ordinary is a serious conflict. Several of the Franciscan Priests I had come to know and love have gotten themselves in serious trouble, with some being defrocked. When one of our sisters suddenly disappeard overnight (after hearing she was prego), it was only recently I learned she was impregnated by one of those Franciscans. There are several other examples of infidelity. These are not good fruits. St. Francis must be beside himself at the thought of any Franciscan or Franciscan in formation (such as myself) who would not humble themselves before their Bishop, much less speak out against him on a matter in which he has jurisdiction.

After my confession, I contacted Bishop Peric by email with my apology - an email about as long as this post, and received a reply three days later - a very merciful and understanding acceptance. He said that Bishop Zanic had died in 2000, but would have rejoiced at my email.

Buried beneath the good fruits, are many rotten fruits and those running around badmouthing a Bishop need to seriously evaluate their position.

I shutter to think how many people were affected by my words against the local bishop. What good were my prayers, fasting, rosaries, confessions all the while holding contempt and outright malice for the Local Ordinary? If others are doing this, think long and hard. I hope more engaged in this will repent as I have because the Lord, nor the Blessed Mother would ever advocate, sanction, or promote such behavior.

Mea Maxima Culpa!

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

The faith there is great, when I came back to England I do not feel that innerpeace why you ask? reply because there is diversity of things that occur here and people are aiming at things which are meaningless to God

Its funny you should mention feeling inner peace when at a place like Medjugorje. I actually lived in that region and visited Medjugorje many times while I lived there and I too felt an inner peace.

However, that does not by any means go to authenticity.

Case in point… I just switched parishes. After hopping around many other parishes in my diocese always seeming to search for something, I managed to find a permanent home in a more traditional parish. I have never felt the inner peace I have now while any place else on this earth. But, the community is highly prayerful in contrast to any other parish I have been to. The community is highly penitential in contrast to every other parish I had been to. I’ve never seen such confession lines like I do at this parish and it calls me to do the same - frequently. In fact, one of the priests told me that many people in the parish go weekly and the priests there put lots of time “in the box”. I think the one said he put in 25 hours during the week of Divine Mercy.

Also in this parish I changed over too, every one of the priests challenge us by raising the bar higher and higher all the time. While it is the quietest church I have ever been too, or the most confession-minded, they don’t hesistate to move people to a higher level of more silence and more confession. That says nothing of the deep homilies they give. Sacrifice, sin, devotion, discipline, respect - all things despised and stripped from my 1970’s “Jesus Loves Me” Catechism, is discussed with frequency. My Lord they even talk about contraception and abortion at this church. I almost fell out of my pew! Can you imagine that?

The point is that God is very capable of showering us with graces when we put time into the sacraments and in reflection and prayer. You might have found the same inner peace at a retreat fifty miles from your home.

I would be very surprised if, in light of the disobedience, defamation aimed at the Local Ordinary on the part of the “seers” and other nonsense, that it would ever be approved.

I suggest people try the retreats offered if they need a spiritual lift and see what it does. It would cost far less. If the Church should ever approve Medjugorje, by all means go. But why not find God where you are or at sites that have already been authenticated?

 

[springbreeze]

Dear friends

How great the temptation of pride in worldly matters, how even greater the temptation to pride in spiritual matters.

When a soul makes great headway by the grace of God in prayer and spirituality, then all the evil spirits and satan himself, malign against such a soul such is the threat of such a soul to the work of the enemy and such a soul should be to the benefit of the Kingdom of heaven and if these evil spirits and satan cannot make that soul fall into sin by worldly means, they will attempt to make that soul fall into sin by spiritual means and pride is the greatest one that the enemy uses upon such souls. These souls can be deluded into many things and deceived by the fallen angel of light, the dark lucifer, coming as even under the guise of Christ Himself or His Mother the Blessed Virgin Mary. Such souls must be obedient to the Majesterium if they are not to be deceived themselves or worse still deceive others and if they are free of pride will submit to the Authority of the Church in all safeguards and humility.

How well that angel of the dark knows the Sacred Scripture, the Will of God and spiritual matters and how well too he knows human souls and all the flaws of them, he brought them to their demise in original sin for a time and he desires to bring them to eternal damnation for all time.

One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is discernment and another is prudence, another is obedience and further to that is humility. These are the weapons against spiritual pride; such a disgusting weapon of the enemy, that comes as signs or ways to follow, even as visions and apparitions, all seemingly to the good, but on closer examination revealing nothing but deception.

This spiritual pride must be guarded against at all costs. The enemy loves the fruits of it, disobedience abounds here and it is all to the benefit of evil; revolving solely around the self.

Whereas obedience revolves around the ‘other’ not the self. It trusts in God’s Providence, it humbly suffers outrages against the truth, because nothing can shake obedience, not even satan himself.

That is why Peter is the Rock. In the OT God is referred to as the Rock obedience was to Him through the prophets. Christ Jesus creates His Church and Consecrates St Peter as the Rock, the obedience of all humanity to this Rock who is entrusted by the power of the Holy Spirit, in by and through Christ Jesus with authority and shepherdship of the flock. To flout the Rock (the Pontiff) is to flout God. Until there is positive confirmation from the Rock, from the Majesterium, that this is a true apparition, it should be viewed as not a true apparition because prudence dictates so (regardless of feelings or experiences as evil is so adept at faking consolation in souls, removing suffering in one to increase it elsewhere etc) prudence against spiritual pride and prudence to protect the flock of Christ Jesus against deception.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

Very well explained!

For anyone interested I felt the need to Ask the Apologist here on this forum about my position, which is that of the Local Ordinary.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=60177

 

[sherilo]

I am very encouraged to see this thread. As a convert, I had Marian issues, but have since been moved to embrace Mary as our mother and revere her as she deserves. However, I am not convinced that she does all the appearing that has been credited to her. As a new convert, I have taken the position that if it doesn’t come from Rome, it is not to be considered valid, whether it is an apparation, a practice, a viewpoint, etc. Also, I am concerned, as an ex-Protestant, with the damage that Medjugorje and Caritas and Mary in a cheese sandwich or under the overpass does to the credibility of our faith. And as many posters have stated, Mary is present at Mass as is Jesus, so I fail to understand why so many people feel the need to flock to the sites of the supposed apparitions unless they need something more than they already have in the Eucharist. To wholeheartedly embrace the claims of a “seer” when it is clear that they are disobedient undermines the integrity of the faith,and places personal desires and beliefs above Church teaching and authority. My in-laws, whom I love and whom are devout Catholics are firm believers in the apparitions, and have been to Caritas several times. They have told me about the abundant graces there, and have asked me to go. I cannot go, nor can I talk to them about it, as I know that I will appear as someone without enough faith. Actually, I did feel somewhat guilty for not believing, as I am not nearly as knowledgable of the faith as they are. So, I am grateful that this thread was started.

Sherilo

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

sherilo:

I am very encouraged to see this thread. As a convert, I had Marian issues, but have since been moved to embrace Mary as our mother and revere her as she deserves. However, I am not convinced that she does all the appearing that has been credited to her. As a new convert, I have taken the position that if it doesn’t come from Rome, it is not to be considered valid, whether it is an apparation, a practice, a viewpoint, etc. Also, I am concerned, as an ex-Protestant, with the damage that Medjugorje and Caritas and Mary in a cheese sandwich or under the overpass does to the credibility of our faith. And as many posters have stated, Mary is present at Mass as is Jesus, so I fail to understand why so many people feel the need to flock to the sites of the supposed apparitions unless they need something more than they already have in the Eucharist. To wholeheartedly embrace the claims of a “seer” when it is clear that they are disobedient undermines the integrity of the faith,and places personal desires and beliefs above Church teaching and authority. My in-laws, whom I love and whom are devout Catholics are firm believers in the apparitions, and have been to Caritas several times. They have told me about the abundant graces there, and have asked me to go. I cannot go, nor can I talk to them about it, as I know that I will appear as someone without enough faith. Actually, I did feel somewhat guilty for not believing, as I am not nearly as knowledgable of the faith as they are. So, I am grateful that this thread was started.

Sherilo

I too am concerned with the protestant slant taking place there. I had to throw in the towel at another website I thought was reputable after not one person would step in and agree that there was a serious problem with people attacking the Local Ordinary. They were more concerned with me “defaming” the “seers” than they were with the fact that the “seers” had in fact, defamed the local bishop. When I couldn’t find any one person on that board to agree that this was a serious issue, I had to do a sense check and came here to ask an apologist. I sent an email to a priest working on that board pleading for him to get involved in the thread, but I have not seen anything yet from him. I hope I do, otherwise I will need to shake the dust from my sandals and walk out. I participate here and there, but mostly here.