Medjugorje - A True Confession

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Tominellay:
Kurt G.,

There may be a misunderstanding on your part that this judgment by the Church requires another judgment. That is not the case.
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Tom, and others, just politely let me know where I am wrong, but here is why I think the CDF is involved…
  1. Each inquiry commission’s results were never intended as a final position of the Church on the matter. They can’t be, as they were and are inquiry committees.
  2. A number of Bishop’s groups from around the world have inquired of “what to do with Medj. pilgrims from their dioceses?” And of whom do these Bishops inquire? You know very well the answer, the CDF. Why would Bishops inquire of the CDF for advice if the CDF were not involved?
  3. We all like to take our favorite CDF letter, depending on what we want to “prove”. I would offer a short quote from CDF Secretary Archbishop T. Bernone (in answering the Bishop of Reunion Island) No. 154/81-06419 of 26 May 1998:
    “That which relates to pilgrimages to Medjugorje, conducted privately, this Congregation considers are permissible under the condition that they are not promoted as verification of the events that still continue and still require investigation by the Church”.
I am beginning to see why Medj. is such a hot issue… many of you actually believe that thousands of Medjugorje pilgrims are “openly” disobedient to the Church! That can weigh on anyone.

So you can maybe see now, that even if many of us are disobedient, we are not “openly” disobedient, since we still believe that private pilgrimages are allowed (under proper circumstances, of course). You can still feel right, you can still feel that we are wrong, but please don’t feel that we are openly disobedient, OK?
God Bless Us All!
 
I am a retired professor chemistry from Belgium. After a miraculous healing of my wife through prayers to Padre Pio(she had broken her neck in a car accident, her brains were hurt and she lost a child in her woom of 6,5 months old), I was very interested in miracles, apparitions,etc…When I heard about Medjugorje in 1981 by an insane woman from YU, I didn’t believe it. But in 1982 the( I know now) false Italian “seer” don Gobbi sent me to Med. saying that it was authentic. Between 1984 and 1997 I went 24x to that sensational place. I’ve given 100 conferences in favour of Med. and published many positive articles.The ‘holy’ (!)Jozo Zovko was my confessor. I’ve been interpreter for all “seers” and franciscans there. From the beginning I also had some doubts. But I only told the positive things to my audience.When I saw the bricked up franciscan church in Capljina I understood the rebellion and the disobedience of the Medjugorje-franciscans in the Mostar-province towards Rome. I had a talk with the big chief Slavko Barbaric, another ‘saint’ of the Med.-clan, and he defended those franciscan rebels. On August 4 1997 I went to bishop Peric in Mostar to tell him all I had experienced on negative facts about Med. It’s all about sex, money and power. Med. is based on Goebbels-propaganda, manipulation, lies, disobedience, fanaticism, false piety. As negative fruits I know about suicides,
divorces, pilgrims that ended up in psychiatric institutes and much more. After my outing the ‘so lovely converted’ pilgrims of Med. called me a satanist, a communist spy, a freemason…
I wrote an article about the psychology of the Med.fans. You can read this under www.unitypublishing.com/Apparitions/Medlove.htm
I have now 300 files about false apparitions. After reading St John of the Cross I understood how clever satan is in fooling devote people. I was sinning in thinking that I knew better than the local bishops, who were negative about Medjugorje, San Damiano, Garabandal,Necedah, Bayside,Heroldsbach,Marienfried, Eisenberg, Palmar de Troya,… Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa !!!
 
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GoldenArrow:
Mijoy2,

Maybe this will help clarify your difficulty.

Fatima and Lourdes have been determined to be of supernatural origin. Events of supernatural origin always come from God. Angels and Demons are not capable of, by their own power, performing supernatural events. Also, God would never give a Demon supernatural power, so if an apparition is approved, we know that the Church has determined that God is responsible for the events of said apparition.

Supernaturality is far above the events of preeternatural origin. Preeternatural events can come from either God, Angels or Demons. Preeternatural basically refers to powers that Adam and Eve had before the Fall AND, also, the powers that Angels and Demons possess within their own nature.

The Church has ways of proving supernaturality versus preeternaturality. In the case of Fatima and Lourdes: Supernaturality has been determined. In the case of Medjugorje: supernatural events have been effectively ruled out and the the possiblity of preeternatural events remain.

It is my opinion that Demons are responsible for the some of the preeternatural events or apparent preeternatural events in Medjugorje.

Hope this clarifies. Remember: Supernatural powers and preeternatural powers are two very different things. An apparition powered by Demonic preeternatural powers would try to mimic supernaturality. This is why we rely upon the good wisdom of Holy Mother Church to tease out the truth for us sheep.

God Bless.
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Thanks for dissecting this particular aspect of apparition discernment.
 
Kurt G.:
Tom, I thought Listener was remaining “fairly” composed! Which part didn’t you like?

More to the point, I think we disagree on who is now responsible for a final judgement on Medj. You seem to think it’s the local Bishop. I think it’s the CDF. It should be an easy question to get answered. Let’s ask another expert… what say you, Diane?
God Bless Us All!
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The Vatican will back the local Ordinary, and former Yugoslav Bishops Conference, both of whom stated that they cannot affirm anything of supernatural origin taking place there. Furthermore, a final declaration cannot be declared by anyone as long as the apparitions are still taking place. They must wait for them to cease. However, the “seers” have changed their dates from what was to end within a few days initially, and the dates kept changing for each of the “seers” with some saying they ceased, then began having visions conveniently again.

By virtue of declaring that they will be seeing the BVM until they die, they have secured their professions until they meet their Maker and likely disabled the Vatican’s ability to make a formal declaration while they are living. All I can say is that hopefully, there is a deathbed confession, much in the way Magdalena of the Cross confessed as her health turned. She had sold her soul to the devil as a teenager and all the levitation and other phenomena were attributable to demons who can masterfully mimic the same kinds of things that a true apparitionist may do.

Until the “seers” cease “seeing” we are to give heaviest weight to the local Ordinary and bishops conference statements. As Catholics we believe that in matters where it is the jurisdiction of the local Ordinary to discern, the Holy Spirit guides the bishop. This does not make him infallible on issues, but on discernment, we cannot go wrong respecting and following his directions. However, if he is write and people are following the directions of theologians, Franciscans, and other “experts”, they do not enjoy the protection of the Holy Spirit the way the local Ordinary does in matters such as these. Don’t get me wrong. The bishop is human and he is capable of sin like you and I. He is even capable of bad decisions. But the gravity of something like this is truly protected by the Holy Spirit. It takes true faith to believe that.

Even in cases where the proper authority hindered a true apparitionist or stigmatist (i.e., Padre Pio when he was not allowed to say Mass in public for 15 years), these things often play favorably years later after profound levels of virtue become realized on the part of the person involved. We see this with St. Faustina as well whose work was hindered for many years. People point to these things as reasons to not believe the Bishop of Mostar-Duvno and to think he is the sinister one. However, even in cases where a local Ordinary hindered something, it played right into God’s hands for reasons that would become more visible later.
 
Kurt G.:
Tom, and others, just politely let me know where I am wrong, but here is why I think the CDF is involved…
  1. Each inquiry commission’s results were never intended as a final position of the Church on the matter. They can’t be, as they were and are inquiry committees.
  2. A number of Bishop’s groups from around the world have inquired of “what to do with Medj. pilgrims from their dioceses?” And of whom do these Bishops inquire? You know very well the answer, the CDF. Why would Bishops inquire of the CDF for advice if the CDF were not involved?
  3. We all like to take our favorite CDF letter, depending on what we want to “prove”. I would offer a short quote from CDF Secretary Archbishop T. Bernone (in answering the Bishop of Reunion Island) No. 154/81-06419 of 26 May 1998:
    “That which relates to pilgrimages to Medjugorje, conducted privately, this Congregation considers are permissible under the condition that they are not promoted as verification of the events that still continue and still require investigation by the Church”.
I am beginning to see why Medj. is such a hot issue… many of you actually believe that thousands of Medjugorje pilgrims are “openly” disobedient to the Church! That can weigh on anyone.

So you can maybe see now, that even if many of us are disobedient, we are not “openly” disobedient, since we still believe that private pilgrimages are allowed (under proper circumstances, of course). You can still feel right, you can still feel that we are wrong, but please don’t feel that we are openly disobedient, OK?
God Bless Us All!
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I’m running out of time (work lunch hour) and will address one of these quickly but supplying the sentence underneath that which is posted in point 3 above. We must read the letter in full.

Finally, as regards pilgrimages to Medjugorje, which are conducted privately, this Congregation points out that they are permitted on condition that they are not regarded as an authentification of events still taking place and which still call for an examination by the Church.

In other words, you may go privately provided you are not going there with the belief that apparitions are authentic. The examination by the church cannot be complete until the apparitions cease with all. Several “seers” have declared the visions will not stop until they die - very conveniently.

However, until that time we need to respect the local Ordinary’s preference for simply going to Mass and confession at our own parishes or at approved sites. Daily messages can be obtained easily through the Mass. At least they do not have the childish banality of the messages provided by the “seers”. Messages that their bishop demanded back in 1984 cease to be made public.

Disbodedience to the local Ordinary in such a way is damaging to any positive affirmation. If St. Faustina had not complied, or if Padre Pio had disobeyed, neither would have been affirmed.
 
Truth and Love:
I am a retired professor chemistry from Belgium. After a miraculous healing of my wife through prayers to Padre Pio(she had broken her neck in a car accident, her brains were hurt and she lost a child in her woom of 6,5 months old), I was very interested in miracles, apparitions,etc…When I heard about Medjugorje in 1981 by an insane woman from YU, I didn’t believe it. But in 1982 the( I know now) false Italian “seer” don Gobbi sent me to Med. saying that it was authentic. Between 1984 and 1997 I went 24x to that sensational place. I’ve given 100 conferences in favour of Med. and published many positive articles.The ‘holy’ (!)Jozo Zovko was my confessor. I’ve been interpreter for all “seers” and franciscans there. From the beginning I also had some doubts. But I only told the positive things to my audience.When I saw the bricked up franciscan church in Capljina I understood the rebellion and the disobedience of the Medjugorje-franciscans in the Mostar-province towards Rome. I had a talk with the big chief Slavko Barbaric, another ‘saint’ of the Med.-clan, and he defended those franciscan rebels. On August 4 1997 I went to bishop Peric in Mostar to tell him all I had experienced on negative facts about Med. It’s all about sex, money and power. Med. is based on Goebbels-propaganda, manipulation, lies, disobedience, fanaticism, false piety. As negative fruits I know about suicides,
divorces, pilgrims that ended up in psychiatric institutes and much more. After my outing the ‘so lovely converted’ pilgrims of Med. called me a satanist, a communist spy, a freemason…
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Hello, Truth and Love…I cannot argue with you, because you know Medj. as few would know it. I can only offer what I have alluded to before, said in a few various ways:
  1. We can probably agree that “faking it” has almost been ruled out, for the 8 visionaries. It is either from God, or from Satan.
  2. I have a “hope” that the apparitions are from God, but will not be crushed if the Church makes a final decision the other way. We do not center our visits on the apparitions, anyway. Which brings us to…
  3. The faithful praying together around the St. James community.
    Wow, what can one say…You, of all people, will certainly acknowledge that there is much grace from God being dispensed around that community…please say “yes”, because if you say “no”, then you deny the saving power of the sacraments dispensed there by Holy Mother Church.
  4. That is why I had said before, more or less, that even if the apparitions are false, Satan is not the author of the grace from those sacraments. They are being dispensed by real bishops, and real priests, and there are a lot of them dispensing!
  5. Your mention of “sex, money, and power” is not what we bring back from our trips to St. James at Medjugorje. We bring back:
  6. a renewed appreciation for the value of a simple life
  7. a renewed love of daily rosaries as intercessory prayer to our Blessed Mother.
  8. a renewed desire for worshipping and adoring our Lord Jesus in Eucharistic Adoration.
  9. a renewed “craving” for more frequent sacramental confession, recognizing it as a wonderful grace-dispensing gift from God.
  10. a renewed understanding of the “universality” of Holy Mother Church. (so many of us from so many countries, all praying together)
Truth and Love, I am so sorry that you were attacked by vicious Medj. supporters. We have felt some of what you feel, but of course from the opposite direction. Your expertise is pretty much unchallengeable. Of course we could all begin to throw around others, also with expertise, who felt very negative about Medj. and now have positive feelings. But that wouldn’t really change anyone’s mind either for or against.

While preparing this, I have entered with earnest prayer requests to Jesus, and asking help from his Mother, that I convey what is truly on my heart. I am pretty sure you have prayed the same for your message. We cannot both be right. I am prepared to be wrong, but I feel we should really honor the Church’s current position on this, and not force our own wishes into the Church’s mind.
  1. Holy Mother Church still has no final ruling on Medjugorje.
  2. Private Pilgrimages are currently allowed.
I know what you would want us to do, Truth and Love, but please take no offense if we choose to wait on the Church. And Lastly,
God Bless Us All!
 
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Lux_et_veritas:
Even in cases where the proper authority hindered a true apparitionist or stigmatist (i.e., Padre Pio when he was not allowed to say Mass in public for 15 years), these things often play favorably years later after profound levels of virtue become realized on the part of the person involved. We see this with St. Faustina as well whose work was hindered for many years. People point to these things as reasons to not believe the Bishop of Mostar-Duvno and to think he is the sinister one. However, even in cases where a local Ordinary hindered something, it played right into God’s hands for reasons that would become more visible later.
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Diane, I acknowledge this 100%, so we do have some things (I am sure many) about which we can agree. Thanks…
 
With regard to the above-referenced letter of (then) Archbishop Bertone of the CDF (Pr. No 154/81-06419), please also consider:

Bishop Peric had written to the Secretary General of “Famille Chretienne” during the course of which correspondence he expressed his opinion that both negative judgments “non constat” and “constat de non” would now apply to Medjugorje…

Bishop Aubry became aware of this opinion. We don’t know what his stake is in Medjugorje…but he then wrote to CDF and asked we don’t know exactly what…which prompted the response from Bertone.

Par. 1, Bertone refers to “**so-called ** apparitions of Medjugorje”.

Par. 2, Bertone says “it is impossible to reply to each of the questions”…whatever the questions were, he does not repeat them here…
…and…
…“The main thing…is that the Holy See does not…take a position of its own…
…regarding supposed supernatural phenomena…”

“As for the credibility of the “apparitions”…this Dicastery (CDF) respects what was decided by the bishops (not their investigating committee)…”

Note all references to apparitions are in quotation marks or referred to as being so-called…
Note that the CDF’s usual course of action is not to intervene and that it respects the “non constat” judgment of 1991.
He goes on to say that the bishops of B-H have the ball in their court.
Nothing here indicates that the current judgment may not in fact be the final judgment. Nothing compels the Episcopal Conference of B-H to reopen the case. However, it is plain that one of the four bishops of that conference would now vote “constat de non”…

Par. 4, Bertone continues, not personally, but as the Congregation (CDF), to point out **the condition ** under which private pilgrimages could be conducted.

The church has ruled negatively, and probably for the final time already.
Private pilgrimages are probably “crossing the line”, most of the time.
 
Kurt G.:
Hello, Truth and Love…I cannot argue with you, because you know Medj. as few would know it. I can only offer what I have alluded to before, said in a few various ways:
  1. We can probably agree that “faking it” has almost been ruled out, for the 8 visionaries. It is either from God, or from Satan.
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I would agree based on scientific data, at least for certain times. However, there are examples of where some of the sessions smacked of being “arranged”. From page 32 of the 6th edition of Medjugorje After Twenty One Years by Michael Davies (the book Bishop Peric asks all concerned to read, his speech available on the Davies website, along with his speech at Maynooth, Ireland).:
The former Father Vego played a prominent part in the second incident. The “seers” and their Franciscan manipulators have consistently maintained that during their “ecstasies” they are immobile and without communication with the outside world. On 14 January 1985, a French cameraman named Jean-Louis Martin wished to test this claim while the “visionaries” were purporting to be in ecstasy in St. James’ Church. He made a stabbing movement towards the eyes of Vicka Ivankovic with his fingers. Vicka gave a start and jerked her head backwards. Fortunately, the entire incident was filmed and I possess a video-cassette which shows the incident in slow motion. The girl left the room and returned a few minutes later accompanied by no less a person than her old friend Ivica Vego who was wearing a very smart blue overcoat. Vego was very much in command and did most of the explaining. The fact that after his expulsion from the order he is still so actively involved with the visionaries is of no little significance. The hastily fabricated explanation which Vego had instructed Vicka to give went as follows:

When I arrived in the chapel I saw Jean-Louis, I saw all the people, but when the ecstasy began I saw nothing except the Virgin Mary who had the Infant Jesus in her arms, and at that time I saw that the Infant Jesus would fall on the floor so I made a gesture to catch the Infant Jesus because He should not fall on the floor.

There could hardly be a more evident case of outright lying. It is inconceivable that during an apparition of Our Lady with the Child Jesus, the child could possibly slip. If, per impossible, this did happen, it is stretching coincidence beyond the bounds of credibility to be asked to believe that it happened at the precise moment that the journalist made the movement towards Vicka’s eyes, and, finally, if she had been speaking the truth she would have moved forward towards the apparition and not backwards!
  1. I have a “hope” that the apparitions are from God, but will not be crushed if the Church makes a final decision the other way. We do not center our visits on the apparitions, anyway. Which brings us to…
  2. The faithful praying together around the St. James community.
    Wow, what can one say…You, of all people, will certainly acknowledge that there is much grace from God being dispensed around that community…please say “yes”, because if you say “no”, then you deny the saving power of the sacraments dispensed there by Holy Mother Church.
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Good fruits have to be weighed along with the bad fruits. You cannot view good fruits to the exclusion of bad fruits which is precisely what turned myself and “Truth and Love”. You can review the French Bishops statement on that as they hit it right on when they called it out as very troubling.

…continued…next post…
 
  1. That is why I had said before, more or less, that even if the apparitions are false, Satan is not the author of the grace from those sacraments. They are being dispensed by real bishops, and real priests, and there are a lot of them dispensing!
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I’m sure the good Lord is protecting much of the innocence on the part of people who are victims of what I believe to be mainly a hoax, with potential diabolical intervention. However, satan will lead people to such a level if he can get them so hooked that they turn on the Church as is happening already. So many Franciscans who were supporting the “seers” have been defrocked or have lost their canonical faculties all on their own (I believe it was at least 9). And, you don’t know if the priest hearing your confession is authorized to hear it. Several priests were strictly forbidden, in writing, by the Bishop of Mostar-Duvno, to say Mass and hear confessions there, yet they did so anyway, bringing upon themselves a canonical penalty. They continued to hear confessions, then brought in a fake bishop to perform confirmations in Capljina where they had barracaded themselves in after the Vatican ordered the church to be handed over to the diocese. If they have not done so already, a large chunk of the Franciscan Community there is in near schism with the Catholic Church (really bad fruit). This came as a shock to me because I trusted these people. I could not imagine a Franciscan being disobedient to the Holy See itself in handing over the parishes.

These priests have turned on Holy Mother Church in order to advance Medjugorje. That does not show God’s grace. The “seers” have turned on Holy Mother Church when they calumniated against the local bishop, defaming him, spreading detraction, and through blatant disobedience.
  1. Your mention of “sex, money, and power” is not what we bring back from our trips to St. James at Medjugorje. We bring back:
  2. a renewed appreciation for the value of a simple life
  3. a renewed love of daily rosaries as intercessory prayer to our Blessed Mother.
  4. a renewed desire for worshipping and adoring our Lord Jesus in Eucharistic Adoration.
  5. a renewed “craving” for more frequent sacramental confession, recognizing it as a wonderful grace-dispensing gift from God.
  6. a renewed understanding of the “universality” of Holy Mother Church. (so many of us from so many countries, all praying together)
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All things that are the result of sacramental grace and can be obtained at a good retreat center. Your motiviation for going there is not greed so I believe that God, in his mercy, is protecting people like you. The danger is in putting too much stock into it and turning a blind eye to the bad fruits. All of what I stated above is well documented by the Vatican, Franciscan Order, and Diocese (you’ll have to read the Davies book - downloaded free online).
Truth and Love, I am so sorry that you were attacked by vicious Medj. supporters. We have felt some of what you feel, but of course from the opposite direction. Your expertise is pretty much unchallengeable. Of course we could all begin to throw around others, also with expertise, who felt very negative about Medj. and now have positive feelings. But that wouldn’t really change anyone’s mind either for or against.
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Please keep your ears peeled for words used against the local Ordinary. It is not a grace from God when you hear supporters of Medjugorje spreading his name through the mud - usually cloaked with a kind, charitable smile. Ask yourself if such is the seed of God.
While preparing this, I have entered with earnest prayer requests to Jesus, and asking help from his Mother, that I convey what is truly on my heart. I am pretty sure you have prayed the same for your message. We cannot both be right. I am prepared to be wrong, but I feel we should really honor the Church’s current position on this, and not force our own wishes into the Church’s mind.
  1. Holy Mother Church still has no final ruling on Medjugorje.
  2. Private Pilgrimages are currently allowed.
I know what you would want us to do, Truth and Love, but please take no offense if we choose to wait on the Church. And Lastly,
God Bless Us All!
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Why not wait on the Church by going to Fatima, Lourdes and other fully approved sites? Take in a retreat at a good center. I can recommend the Order of Canons Regular of the Holy Cross. Their retreats are rich in doctrine, the sacraments, and they are aligned closely with the Magisterium. They still have their 2005 schedule up, but maybe they are coming to a center near you sometime. Give it a shot. They are closely aligned with the apostolate - Opus Sanctorum Angelorum.

Continued next post…
 
Kurt, you sound to me to have a genuinely innocent soul, simply pursuing increased faith. This is wonderful. Our Church is rich in history and in faith-building experiences already fully approved and well visited. Fatima is the same today as it was yesterday and will be tomorrow, and it has been affirmed that what occured was supernatural.

At the very least, download a few pages at a time and read the Davies book. The Bishop of Mostar-Duvno has asked this of us and we owe at least that much to him. It is chock full of documents even if you strip all commentary out. When I emailed him, he asked me to read the three things that are on the Davies website, one of which is his introduction to the book and the other his speech in Maynooth Ireland.

God Bless. You are doing fine in the thread 👍
 
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Lux_et_veritas:
Kurt, you sound to me to have a genuinely innocent soul, simply pursuing increased faith. This is wonderful. Our Church is rich in history and in faith-building experiences already fully approved and well visited. Fatima is the same today as it was yesterday and will be tomorrow, and it has been affirmed that what occured was supernatural.

At the very least, download a few pages at a time and read the Davies book. The Bishop of Mostar-Duvno has asked this of us and we owe at least that much to him. It is chock full of documents even if you strip all commentary out. When I emailed him, he asked me to read the three things that are on the Davies website, one of which is his introduction to the book and the other his speech in Maynooth Ireland.

God Bless. You are doing fine in the thread 👍
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Diane, we do know, and love, Lourdes and Fatima. On a recent trip to Fatima we (the men) finally got to be the carriers of Our Lady in the procession! What a job they make of men being “very close” in heighth! One of the shorter ones among us was scratched for that reason…but he made up for it another night when he got to help carry the cover over the Eucharistic procession! (More later… thank you all)
 
Perhaps the wisest course herei s to follow the advice of Gamaliel as presented in Acts chapter 5.“If thisplan or work is of men,it will be overthrown;but if it is of God,you will not be able to overthrow it.” Time will tell. It does not help to get hysterical or use hearsay as evidence.
 
Dear brother in Xto, Kurt,

I only find the time now to respond to your posting on 12/9 at 9.59am . I see that meanwhile Lux et Veritas answered the different points very well. I also agree with what Tominellay said about the Bertone-letter. This letter has been manipulated by the french Frs. Daniel-Ange and Laurentin, but do you know that the now Card. Bertone, archbishop of Genua, has written a hard statement against the fanatic defenders of Medjugorje and radio Maria in an Italian newspaper? What concerns the graces received in Medjugorje, they are the fruit of the H.Sacraments in the R.C.church there and have nothing to do with the’apparitions’. You know the Holy Bible speaks about the tree and the fruit. Well, in Med. there are 2 trees, i. e. the tree of the false’Gospa’ which creates fanaticism, and the tree of the H.Sacraments which bring the divine graces.
Please read chapter 7 in the H.Gospel of Mathew about the FALSE prophets from 7, 15 until 7, 20. O.K.? Now read further from 7, 21 until 7, 23. You get it ?
 
Truth and Love:
Dear brother in Xto, Kurt,

I only find the time now to respond to your posting on 12/9 at 9.59am . I see that meanwhile Lux et Veritas answered the different points very well. I also agree with what Tominellay said about the Bertone-letter. This letter has been manipulated by the french Frs. Daniel-Ange and Laurentin, but do you know that the now Card. Bertone, archbishop of Genua, has written a hard statement against the fanatic defenders of Medjugorje and radio Maria in an Italian newspaper? What concerns the graces received in Medjugorje, they are the fruit of the H.Sacraments in the R.C.church there and have nothing to do with the’apparitions’. You know the Holy Bible speaks about the tree and the fruit. Well, in Med. there are 2 trees, i. e. the tree of the false’Gospa’ which creates fanaticism, and the tree of the H.Sacraments which bring the divine graces.
Please read chapter 7 in the H.Gospel of Mathew about the FALSE prophets from 7, 15 until 7, 20. O.K.? Now read further from 7, 21 until 7, 23. You get it ?
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Truth & Light - is that Italian newspaper article available online? If so, maybe we can get it translated into English or maybe it already is translated. The first step is to find a link to the original article.

It would be nice to get Archbishop Bertone to write something easily accessible to all, not just the Italians.
 
Dear Diane and all readers,

You can read the original italian text on :
www.cardinalrating.com/cardinal_12__article_764.htm
In an automatic very bad translation it is like this :

Translation (automatic) English
Rovente controversy between the Cardinal Bertone and “Radio Maria”
Mar 04, 2005
Monsignor Tarcisio Bertone, the Archbishop of Genoa, Canavesano di Romano, is jumped to the honors of the reports for one rovente controversy with issuing the wireless “Radio Maria”, a lot listened to, but seen with a bottom of skepticism also from great part of the catholic world.

(localport.it, 25/02/2005) the presumed stone of the scandal are the declarations rilasciate from the Cardinal in the course of its participation to the television transmission of RaiUno “Porta.a.porta”, lead from Tawny Vespa. In that occasion Monsignor Bertone it had to express its skepticism with respect to the apparitions of Medjugorje and Civitavecchia.

The presumed stone of the scandal is the declarations rilasciate from the Cardinal in the course of its participation to the television transmission of RaiUno “Porta.a.porta”, lead from Tawny Vespa. In that occasion Monsignor Bertone it had to express its skepticism with respect to the apparitions of Medjugorje and Civitavecchia.

You open sky! The listeners of Radio Maria literally are rebelled, tempestando the writing of email and telephone calls of protest. A true moral linciaggio that Monsignor Bertone has not been able to accept and to which it has replied with a hard official official notice. “they have been - law in the document - reactions decomposed and offensive of faithfuls and clergymen who define” medjugorjani “and also from part of the same Radio Maria, compatible attacks not sure with the supporters of an authentic mariana devozione”. Tarcisio Bertone has then explained not to want to deny to nobody the right to pray the Madonna where better it believes, but than to condemn, without appeal, all the fanatismo excesses, also those legacies to the name of the Mother of Jesus.

In its defense the porporato one has demonstrated to the character and the “wrist” that the contraddistinguono since quand’ was boy and that they have carried it to cover assignments of most Association of Bologna in the world of the Church: it has been for years the “skillful arm” of the Cardinal Ratzinger, to on behalf follow of the Vatican delicate matters like the “case Milingo”, the secrets of Fatima and the issue Alì Agca. Moreover, years ago, just Monsignor Bertone has followed in first person the preliminary investigation on the apparitions of Medjugorje and, in topic of mariana devozione, it has been sended of the Pope to Fatima for the funerals of suor Lucia.

To forehead of the controversies of Radio Maria, the genovese clergy has schierato itself to the flank of its Archbishop, without average measures: “the Cardinal Has reason to take it with Radio Maria - it is the comment of don Andrea Rooster, the” priest of poor "famous for the its friendship with Fabrizio De André --: ago throbbing propaganda, one crossed. But that what waits for to recall it? If I recommend to the boys the preservative, they convene to me endured in ecclesiastical court. If they use the Madonna in order to ask moneies, no ago null one. That one radio is one hot potato. And it is not the voice of Maria, because it is useful of a sure fanatismo, a po’ like the maghetti in tv that they take advantage of the pain of people "

Pax et Bonum Truth and Love
 
OMG - that translation is horrible. I can’t discern what is truly being said. Maybe I can get someone to translate it a little better for us.

Thanks
 
I too went to Medjugorje three times. Obedience must be at the heart of every apparition for it to be genuine. I would say that it is best to stay close to the Church’s teaching, to the Sacraments, be obedient to the Holy Father. Also try to get involved in a local Catholic apostolate to help spread the faith to those who do not have it and there are many. We don’t need to go away to receive inner peace, we can go to Jesus who is present in every tabernacle in every Catholic Church. Let us give Him our time as He is often left alone. It is good to pray but it is also necessary to do some works of charity or evangelisation especially in these days.
 
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