Meeting with Pastor in a few hours

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Esrb99

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I am about to go meet with my pastor in a few hours to discuss the possibility of a one-off Extraordinary Form Mass (Solemn High). He seems a bit hesitant, and mentioned to me already that he and our other priests here don’t know it.

Some things to consider:
  • A priest, deacon and subdeacon are willing to come and celebrate the mass.
  • 100+ faithful, including Newman Center youth and recently confirmed High Schoolers (all from my parish) are interested, all having signed a petition for a regular location in our diocese.
  • A solemn mass was celebrated back in 2009 that was not highly advertised, but was apparently a success.
  • a good amount of the necessary goods (servers patens, linens etc) have been kept in storage, and the priests/servers have what is needed that the church does not have
  • a group of committed faithful is able to sing the parts of the choir, and can be ready relatively quick.
In short, all that is needed is the use of the church-very little (if any) regular parish funds will need to be used.

I am trying to coincide this with the beginning of the year of faith in October, as an Extraordinary event meriting an extraordinary solemn mass.

My pastor doesn’t see the spiritual need, and feels that it could create disunity in the parish.

I am not sure how to approach this meeting with him, or what points to make to possibly get this to work. I could definitely use some prayers!!!

I am definitely glad he is open to listening to me-that much I can say.

Thanks in advance.
 
Good luck to you…it sounds like you did your homework well to prepare for this.

One option for you to consider is if your Pastor OKs the idea, maybe inviting a priest from the FSSP or another community to come to your parish to celebrate this Mass.

Are there any traditional communities in your area?

I will pray for you and your efforts
 
As far as creating disunity in the parish, I understand your pastor’s hesitation. I think it is a wholly unfounded and baseless fear (see below), but I do understand your pastor’s fear of the feeling of potentially creating disunity.

However, I would put it this way: literally thousands of parishes have different Masses in different languages. A Mass for English speakers, a Mass for Spanish speakers, etc. This creates far more disunity than an EF Mass. It is a worse disunity: it is artificially created and has no history in the Roman Rite. Furthermore, it destroys a relationship between cultures. An EF Mass occasionally or even regularly superimposed into a schedule of OF Masses can be a beautiful common point. The Latin language favors no people over another.
 
One option for you to consider is if your Pastor OKs the idea, maybe inviting a priest from the FSSP or another community to come to your parish to celebrate this Mass.
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Are there any traditional communities in your area?
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I am in the Jefferson City Diocese; there are really no traditional communities in our Diocese, but the St. Louis Archdiocese has the ICRSP, and Kansas City has the FSSP. We are currently working on bringing the FSSP here to the Jeff City Diocese, actually.
However, I would put it this way: literally thousands of parishes have different Masses in different languages. A Mass for English speakers, a Mass for Spanish speakers, etc. This creates far more disunity than an EF Mass. It is a worse disunity: it is artificially created and has no history in the Roman Rite. Furthermore, it destroys a relationship between cultures. An EF Mass occasionally or even regularly superimposed into a schedule of OF Masses can be a beautiful common point. The Latin language favors no people over another.
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I completely agree. I am also going to mention the USCCB’s website on the Year of Faith:
**5. How does the Year of Faith affect the average Catholic? **
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Every baptized Catholic is called through baptism to be a disciple of Christ and proclaim the Gospel. The Year of Faith is an opportunity for each and every Catholic to renew their baptismal call by living out the everyday moments of their lives with faith, hope and love. This everyday witness is necessary for proclaiming the Gospel to family, friends, neighbors and society. In order to witness to the Gospel, Catholics must be strengthened through celebrating weekly Sunday Mass and the Sacrament of Reconciliation.
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Pastors are encouraged to provide their parishioners with opportunities to deepen their faith during the Year of Faith through retreats, special liturgies, Bible studies, service opportunities and formation sessions on the catechism and sacraments.
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I hope to show that such a celebration would not be out of step with the church and that in fact, it is all but encouraged in special occasions!😃

Thanks for the prayers in advance!!!
 
The “disunity” concern is about as bogus an excuse as I have heard. Its used far and wide to “beg off” from having to entertain the request. We heard this used all over the Diocese. And we literally went parish door to parish door begging for a permission.

So what do they think they are doing by putting us off. Isn’t that a form of disunity too?

Sorry for being touchy on this subject but it really upsets me.
 
YoungTradCath said:
As far as creating disunity in the parish, I understand your pastor’s hesitation. I think it is a wholly unfounded and baseless fear (see below), but I do understand your pastor’s fear of the feeling of potentially creating disunity.

However, I would put it this way: literally thousands of parishes have different Masses in different languages. A Mass for English speakers, a Mass for Spanish speakers, etc. This creates far more disunity than an EF Mass. It is a worse disunity: it is artificially created and has no history in the Roman Rite. Furthermore, it destroys a relationship between cultures. An EF Mass occasionally or even regularly superimposed into a schedule of OF Masses can be a beautiful common point. The Latin language favors no people over another.
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The potential for disunity does not rise from the Mass itself, but from the people who attend the Mass. The disunity here on CAF is a perfect example.

One person waxes eloquently “Wow, this is how worship is supposed to be!” Another who was lost in the Latin and got nothing out of it responds, “Whatever do you mean by ‘Supposed to be?’ Is our everyday Mass the somehow the way worship is not supposed to be?”

Before you know it, people are arguing about how to recieve communion and altar servers, cassocks and roman collars, which way the priest should face, or the nature of the Mass as sacrifice vs. meal. Inevitably there will be accusations of lack of reverence on one side or coldness of heart on the other, and the whole thing spirals out of hand.

The potential for disunity lies in us, not the Mass.

-Tim-
 
TimothyH said:
The potential for disunity does not rise from the Mass itself, but from the people who attend the Mass. The disunity here on CAF is a perfect example.

One person waxes eloquently “Wow, this is how worship is supposed to be!” Another who was lost in the Latin and got nothing out of it responds, “Whatever do you mean by ‘Supposed to be?’ Is our everyday Mass the somehow the way worship is not supposed to be?”

Before you know it, people are arguing about how to recieve communion and altar servers, cassocks and roman collars, which way the priest should face, or the nature of the Mass as sacrifice vs. meal. Inevitably there will be accusations of lack of reverence on one side or coldness of heart on the other, and the whole thing spirals out of hand.

The potential for disunity lies in us, not the Mass.

-Tim-
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Amen, Tim!

You are a brave man.
 
Bravo, sir!! :clapping::tiphat:
TimothyH said:
The potential for disunity does not rise from the Mass itself, but from the people who attend the Mass. The disunity here on CAF is a perfect example.

One person waxes eloquently “Wow, this is how worship is supposed to be!” Another who was lost in the Latin and got nothing out of it responds, “Whatever do you mean by ‘Supposed to be?’ Is our everyday Mass the somehow the way worship is not supposed to be?”

Before you know it, people are arguing about how to recieve communion and altar servers, cassocks and roman collars, which way the priest should face, or the nature of the Mass as sacrifice vs. meal. Inevitably there will be accusations of lack of reverence on one side or coldness of heart on the other, and the whole thing spirals out of hand.

The potential for disunity lies in us, not the Mass.

-Tim-
Click to expand...
 
Esrb99 said:
I am about to go meet with my pastor in a few hours to discuss the possibility of a one-off Extraordinary Form Mass (Solemn High). He seems a bit hesitant, and mentioned to me already that he and our other priests here don’t know it.

Some things to consider:
  • A priest, deacon and subdeacon are willing to come and celebrate the mass.
  • 100+ faithful, including Newman Center youth and recently confirmed High Schoolers (all from my parish) are interested, all having signed a petition for a regular location in our diocese.
  • A solemn mass was celebrated back in 2009 that was not highly advertised, but was apparently a success.
  • a good amount of the necessary goods (servers patens, linens etc) have been kept in storage, and the priests/servers have what is needed that the church does not have
  • a group of committed faithful is able to sing the parts of the choir, and can be ready relatively quick.
In short, all that is needed is the use of the church-very little (if any) regular parish funds will need to be used.

I am trying to coincide this with the beginning of the year of faith in October, as an Extraordinary event meriting an extraordinary solemn mass.

My pastor doesn’t see the spiritual need, and feels that it could create disunity in the parish.

I am not sure how to approach this meeting with him, or what points to make to possibly get this to work. I could definitely use some prayers!!!

I am definitely glad he is open to listening to me-that much I can say.

Thanks in advance.
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Obviously, you shouldn’t tell it to him this way, but to say that there’s no spiritual need and that it could create disunity is exactly against the intentions of the Holy Father in the motu proprio. For the first point, have you told him about the petition? It seems there is a want for this. And as for disunity, one bishop put it so well (I’m paraphrasing from memory, but it’s quite close to what he actually said):

“Before the Motu Proprio, I had deemed for what I thought were good reasons that the EF would not be the best thing for my diocese, because of the potential for disunity. But now, our Holy Father has relieved me of this decision, and has deemed that it is for the good of the church, so I am now obeying his wishes in spirit and in letter by being the first bishop in the state to publicly celebrate the EF.”

That’s the point: our Holy Father has not seen that the EF is hurtful to our church, so who are we to deem otherwise.
 
TimothyH said:
The potential for disunity does not rise from the Mass itself, but from the people who attend the Mass. The disunity here on CAF is a perfect example.

One person waxes eloquently “Wow, this is how worship is supposed to be!” Another who was lost in the Latin and got nothing out of it responds, “Whatever do you mean by ‘Supposed to be?’ Is our everyday Mass the somehow the way worship is not supposed to be?”
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Well, they have a good point. Quite often, the “everyday” Masses at parishes do leave a lot to be desired. Maybe the pastor isn’t ready to change.
 
TimothyH said:
The potential for disunity does not rise from the Mass itself, but from the people who attend the Mass. The disunity here on CAF is a perfect example.

One person waxes eloquently “Wow, this is how worship is supposed to be!” Another who was lost in the Latin and got nothing out of it responds, “Whatever do you mean by ‘Supposed to be?’ Is our everyday Mass the somehow the way worship is not supposed to be?”

Before you know it, people are arguing about how to recieve communion and altar servers, cassocks and roman collars, which way the priest should face, or the nature of the Mass as sacrifice vs. meal. Inevitably there will be accusations of lack of reverence on one side or coldness of heart on the other, and the whole thing spirals out of hand.

The potential for disunity lies in us, not the Mass.

-Tim-
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Completely accurate.
 
Perhaps I’m posting this a bit late, and you’re already meeting with, or have met with your pastor. I’d just like to recommend that you ask him what it is that he still needs from you (and those others who would like the EF Solemn High Mass) in order to help him to feel more comfortable with having the one-time Mass offered. He may still need some reasurances, possibly. Maybe there’s something he has in mind that you can do to help with his concerns about disunity.

There’s a Dominican parish in my city that began offering an EF Solemn High Mass once or twice a year, though it normally only offers the OF. I don’t think it caused problems in the parish, and the place was packed full for the EF Mass.

Anyway, I’ll offer a couple of decades of the rosary for your intention shortly. I hope it works out well for you.
 
Any updates?
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I talked with him earlier. We left the meeting with him saying that he was, “less than convinced that it should be done.” When I mentioned having servers, choir members, etc lined up, he wondered if they were from our parish. He said that if they were, he wondered where they were trained as they weren’t, “Getting the training for that here.”

He also felt that even if it attracted many in the area who did not regularly attend our parish, that the attraction it would get would not be long-lasting as far as evangelization goes (as it would be a one-off mass) and that essentially, we would be advertising a novelty.

The meeting was closed with, “If people have already found somewhere to go for this mass, why are they requesting it here? If they are going to it somewhere else, then they are not my parishioners.” This was his response to a petition for 100+ faithful in our parish that were interested.

It was also stated that Vatican II has supposedly abrogated the Tridentine Mass, and that Pope Benedict only just allowed it. Since the year of faith is all about Vatican II, it would be inappropriate to open the year of faith with the EF.

There was a bit more said, I just cannot remember it all. I’m glad he spoke to me-in the end, he said maybe later in the year depending on how the “year of faith looks” as it goes on, but as far as opening the year of faith, he seemed reluctant at best.

On the other hand, our University/Parish’s Newman Center voted for my t-shirt design for the coming year. 😃





Please keep praying for our Diocese!!! We are hoping to attract the FSSP or Institute in the long run. Please keep the Jeff City Diocese in your prayers!!!
 
TimothyH said:
The potential for disunity does not rise from the Mass itself, but from the people who attend the Mass. The disunity here on CAF is a perfect example.

One person waxes eloquently “Wow, this is how worship is supposed to be!” Another who was lost in the Latin and got nothing out of it responds, “Whatever do you mean by ‘Supposed to be?’ Is our everyday Mass the somehow the way worship is not supposed to be?”

Before you know it, people are arguing about how to recieve communion and altar servers, cassocks and roman collars, which way the priest should face, or the nature of the Mass as sacrifice vs. meal. Inevitably there will be accusations of lack of reverence on one side or coldness of heart on the other, and the whole thing spirals out of hand.

The potential for disunity lies in us, not the Mass.

-Tim-
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Well and honestly said.
 
Esrb99 said:
I talked with him earlier. We left the meeting with him saying that he was, “less than convinced that it should be done.” When I mentioned having servers, choir members, etc lined up, he wondered if they were from our parish. He said that if they were, he wondered where they were trained as they weren’t, “Getting the training for that here.”

He also felt that even if it attracted many in the area who did not regularly attend our parish, that the attraction it would get would not be long-lasting as far as evangelization goes (as it would be a one-off mass) and that essentially, we would be advertising a novelty.

The meeting was closed with, “If people have already found somewhere to go for this mass, why are they requesting it here? If they are going to it somewhere else, then they are not my parishioners.” This was his response to a petition for 100+ faithful in our parish that were interested.

It was also stated that Vatican II has supposedly abrogated the Tridentine Mass, and that Pope Benedict only just allowed it. Since the year of faith is all about Vatican II, it would be inappropriate to open the year of faith with the EF.

There was a bit more said, I just cannot remember it all. I’m glad he spoke to me-in the end, he said maybe later in the year depending on how the “year of faith looks” as it goes on, but as far as opening the year of faith, he seemed reluctant at best.

On the other hand, our University/Parish’s Newman Center voted for my t-shirt design for the coming year. 😃

http://oi49.tinypic.com/2njkked.jpg

http://oi45.tinypic.com/b9cdnq.jpg

Please keep praying for our Diocese!!! We are hoping to attract the FSSP or Institute in the long run. Please keep the Jeff City Diocese in your prayers!!!
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Congrats on the vote for your tee shirt!

Know that I am praying for your intentions. God bless!
 
That’s really too bad. Those all seem to be pretty flimsy excuses, to be honest, It sounds like he simply dosen’t want the EF in his parish, which is unfortunate. Heck, he doesn’t even really need to do anything!

A couple of random thoughts:
  • VII didn’t abrogate anything. It asked for the liturgy to be reformed which was taken up by other commissions.
  • Any celebration of the Mass is perfectly appropriate for the year of faith, especially the form of the Mass that was used all during Vatican II.
  • A solemn high Mass in the EF is far closer to what the council asked for than most parish Masses (chant, polyphony, latin, no change from ad orientem, communion kneeling, on the tongue, beautiful vestments, etc…), making it MORE appropriate than an average OF parish Mass.
  • He said an EF Mass is “inappropriate” in this case, which I find odd, because it’s not as if you can only have one Mass celebrating the year of faith. You can easily have an EF Mass, and many OF Masses celebrating the year of faith, and it’s many expressions in today’s world.
  • It’s quite odd to say that the EF is inappropriate here, because our Holy Father has said clearly that both rites are of equal dignity and importance in the church. That is just as absurd as saying the OF would be inappropriate.
 
superamazingman said:
*]It’s quite odd to say that the EF is inappropriate here, because our Holy Father has said clearly that both rites are of equal dignity and importance in the church. That is just as absurd as saying the OF would be inappropriate.
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Certainly you mean both FORMS of the same one Roman Catholic Rite.
 
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