Melchizedek

[ryanoneil]

Its best to think of Melchizedek, not as a person, but as righteousness itself, as if a person having no particular father or mother. The Hebrews were very conceptual writers in all Scriptures. They worshiped concepts as sacred (the Angels). Every word represents first and foremost a concept before a material item.

I agree alot of concept is going, but raggetyann is right. Melchizedek as an individual who is a king and a priest. The order of Melchizedek is the patriachal (pre-Levitical form of priesthood) that existed before Moses. The patriarch possesed ruling authority as a “king” as well as religious authority as a “priest”. The first-born son became the primary heir who stood to receive the father’s priestly and ruling responsibility.

 

[redrosetea]

There is nothing in scripture or tradition to indicate he was just a concept…He is mentioned each Sunday in the prayers at mass as the High Priest Melchizedek who offered bread and wine…it is taken for granted he was a real person

 

[ryanoneil]

I am a bit puzzled about his origina and who he was

Scripture says he was without father or mother…Does this mean he was a created being like Adam and Eve?

Here are some clues from scripture that are interesting. Noah’s first born son was Shem (Gen 6:10). Shem received a blessing from Noah - “Blessed be the Lord, the God of Shem!” - which marks the first time in Scripture that God is identified with any one human being (Genesis 9:26-27). God is designated as “the God of Shem” - a sign of Shem’s great righteousness and stature before God. Shem is the Hebrew word for “name.” His brother Ham had offspring who tried to build the Tower of Babel in order “to make a name [Hebrew = shem] for themselves” (Genesis 11:1-9). In other words, they were trying to build a kind of “counter-kingdom” to stand against the name of God.

However, then Shem disappears. Unlike the other first-borns - Adam, Cain, Noah - we don’t see him fall into disgrace. In fact, we don’t hear anything more about him - except that he has sons and that ten generations later one of his descendants, Terah, gives birth to three sons, the first-born of which is Abraham (see Genesis 11:26-27). Funny how Shem - heralded as the most righteous of the men born after the Flood - is never seen handing on his blessing to his first-born or to any one of his children.

Right after the story of Babel and the geneology we see Abraham. God promises: “I will bless you. I will make your name [Hebrew = shem] great.” We know that those blessings come in his descendants, especially in Jesus. But during the course of Genesis, the only actual blessing that Abraham receives is from the mysterious king-priest, Melchizedek (Genesis 14:18-20). And it happens right after Abraham, the descendent of Shem, defeats and rules over the descendants of Ham and Japheth (just as Noah had prophesied would happen in Genesis 9:25-27). Precisely at this moment, Melchizedek appears and pronounces a blessing over Abraham that sounds a lot like the blessing that Noah pronounced over Shem “Blessed be Abram by God Most High, the creator of heaven and earth; And blessed be God Most High, who delivered your foes into your hand.” (Genesis 14:19-20).

If we go back to the geneology of (Gen 11:10-11) the math indicates that Shem lived beyond the lifetime of Abraham by 35 years. If Melchizedek, a name which means “king of righteousness” is really Shem, the righteous son of Noah, then it means that the blessing God gave to Noah and Noah in turn gave to Shem is now being passed on to Abraham, which will then pass to Isaac, and then Jacob. If Melchizedek, the high priest and a king, is also the first-born son of Noah, then his blessing upon Abraham is a sort of “ordination,” a consecration, by which Abraham too becomes, not only a righteous first-born son, but a priest of God Most High. A patriach of the The Jews who are “Shemites” which is where we get our modern expression “anti-Semitic” or “anti-Semite.”

 

[raggetyann]

Here are some clues from scripture that are interesting. Noah’s first born son was Shem (Gen 6:10). Shem received a blessing from Noah - “Blessed be the Lord, the God of Shem!” - which marks the first time in Scripture that God is identified with any one human being (Genesis 9:26-27). God is designated as “the God of Shem” - a sign of Shem’s great righteousness and stature before God. Shem is the Hebrew word for “name.” His brother Ham had offspring who tried to build the Tower of Babel in order “to make a name [Hebrew = shem] for themselves” (Genesis 11:1-9). In other words, they were trying to build a kind of “counter-kingdom” to stand against the name of God.

However, then Shem disappears. Unlike the other first-borns - Adam, Cain, Noah - we don’t see him fall into disgrace. In fact, we don’t hear anything more about him - except that he has sons and that ten generations later one of his descendants, Terah, gives birth to three sons, the first-born of which is Abraham (see Genesis 11:26-27). Funny how Shem - heralded as the most righteous of the men born after the Flood - is never seen handing on his blessing to his first-born or to any one of his children.

Right after the story of Babel and the geneology we see Abraham. God promises: “I will bless you. I will make your name [Hebrew = shem] great.” We know that those blessings come in his descendants, especially in Jesus. But during the course of Genesis, the only actual blessing that Abraham receives is from the mysterious king-priest, Melchizedek (Genesis 14:18-20). And it happens right after Abraham, the descendent of Shem, defeats and rules over the descendants of Ham and Japheth (just as Noah had prophesied would happen in Genesis 9:25-27). Precisely at this moment, Melchizedek appears and pronounces a blessing over Abraham that sounds a lot like the blessing that Noah pronounced over Shem “Blessed be Abram by God Most High, the creator of heaven and earth; And blessed be God Most High, who delivered your foes into your hand.” (Genesis 14:19-20).

If we go back to the geneology of (Gen 11:10-11) the math indicates that Shem lived beyond the lifetime of Abraham by 35 years. If Melchizedek, a name which means “king of righteousness” is really Shem, the righteous son of Noah, then it means that the blessing God gave to Noah and Noah in turn gave to Shem is now being passed on to Abraham, which will then pass to Isaac, and then Jacob. If Melchizedek, the high priest and a king, is also the first-born son of Noah, then his blessing upon Abraham is a sort of “ordination,” a consecration, by which Abraham too becomes, not only a righteous first-born son, but a priest of God Most High. A patriach of the The Jews who are “Shemites” which is where we get our modern expression “anti-Semitic” or “anti-Semite.”

If Jesus was after the order of Melchizedek, then OK but i am sure if he was after the order of Shem, it clearly would have stated this. Shem him self probably disappeared because he was raising his family and you don’t hear much about him, but Mel, was a King that sat in a throne and ruled Salem.Gen:14:18 Psalms:110:4 raggetyann

 

[NotWorthy]

If Jesus was after the order of Melchizedek, then OK but i am sure if he was after the order of Shem, it clearly would have stated this. Shem him self probably disappeared because he was raising his family and you don’t hear much about him, but Mel, was a King that sat in a throne and ruled Salem.Gen:14:18 Psalms:110:4 raggetyann

Why are you so sure it would have stated it? It was clear enough to Jews and the Christian Fathers that Shem was probably Melchizedek. What do you know that they don’t?

 

[patrick457]

Why are you so sure it would have stated it? It was clear enough to Jews and the Christian Fathers that Shem was probably Melchizedek. What do you know that they don’t?

They’re actually pretty much divided over the issue themselves, so I guess the issue is a ‘you can opine whatever you want’?

I mean, 2 Enoch (usually identified as a work made in the late 1st century AD by either an unknown sectarian Jewish group or even Christians) has Melchizedek being born of a virgin named Sofonim/Sopanima - who was Noah’s brother’s Nir’s wife. Apparently Melchizedek came out from the womb fully grown and clothed when her mother was already dead!
The medieval Syriac work Book of the Bee has a version which has Melchizedek as a descendant of Shem but not Shem himself.
Shem here takes Melchizedek from his parents, as well as the bones of his father Adam, which as the late Noah confided were contained in the Ark, goes to what would later be Golgotha, buries Adam there, then imparts the priesthood on to Melchizedek, commanding him to stay there until Mel dies. When Shem goes back to Mel’s parents, he just states that he died on the way, prompting his parents to grieve; in reality, Mel was actually alive and well. Eventually as time passed and he grew old, “the kings of the earth heard his fame, and eleven of them gathered together and came to see him; and they entreated him to go with them, but he would not be persuaded. And when he did not conform to their wishes, they built a city for him there, and he called it Jerusalem; and the kings said to one another, ‘This is the king of all the earth, and the father of nations.’”

 

[armalanon]

Hi what I think about Melchizedek the scripture says he was without father or mother but he is alive we all agree on that .so the question i asked to myself was no father and no mother gave him life and he is living if no one was there to bring him to life than no one is going to be there to bring the end of him so Melchizedek has no begining and no end thats what I think

 

[NotWorthy]

They’re actually pretty much divided over the issue themselves, so I guess the issue is a ‘you can opine whatever you want’?

… which is why I wouldn’t use the words “I’m sure” when denying it was Shem.

I mean, 2 Enoch (usually identified as a work made in the late 1st century AD by either an unknown sectarian Jewish group or even Christians) has Melchizedek being born of a virgin named Sofonim/Sopanima - who was Noah’s brother’s Nir’s wife. Apparently Melchizedek came out from the womb fully grown and clothed when her mother was already dead!
The medieval Syriac work Book of the Bee has a version which has Melchizedek as a descendant of Shem but not Shem himself.
Shem here takes Melchizedek from his parents, as well as the bones of his father Adam, which as the late Noah confided were contained in the Ark, goes to what would later be Golgotha, buries Adam there, then imparts the priesthood on to Melchizedek, commanding him to stay there until Mel dies. When Shem goes back to Mel’s parents, he just states that he died on the way, prompting his parents to grieve; in reality, Mel was actually alive and well. Eventually as time passed and he grew old, “the kings of the earth heard his fame, and eleven of them gathered together and came to see him; and they entreated him to go with them, but he would not be persuaded. And when he did not conform to their wishes, they built a city for him there, and he called it Jerusalem; and the kings said to one another, ‘This is the king of all the earth, and the father of nations.’”

And to all this, I agree. There is no consensus, but there is such a strong opinion that it is Shem (although not overwhelmingly strong), I couldn’t use the phrase, “I’m sure” on either opinion.

 

[ryanoneil]

Hi what I think about Melchizedek the scripture says he was without father or mother but he is alive we all agree on that .so the question i asked to myself was no father and no mother gave him life and he is living if no one was there to bring him to life than no one is going to be there to bring the end of him so Melchizedek has no begining and no end thats what I think

Take the words literally if you wish, but at least understand the non-literal interpretation. Those statements are made in contrast to the Levitical priesthood.

If, then, perfection came through the levitical priesthood, on the basis of which the people received the law, what need would there still have been for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not reckoned according to the order of Aaron? When there is a change of priesthood, there is necessarily a change of law as well. (Heb 7:11-12)

Without father or mother is in reference the requirement that priests in Israel show proof that they descended from the line of Aaron on their father and mothers side. Failure to meet these requirements made someone ineligible.

These men searched their family records, but their names could not be found written there; hence they were degraded from the priesthood, and His Excellency ordered them not to partake of the most holy foods until there should be a priest bearing the Urim and Thummim (Ezra 2:62-62)

Neither Melchizedek nor Jesus had a Levitical genealogy and they were not bound to the restriction, because Melchizedek came before the Levitical order and Christ came after. Neither beginning nor end refers to the age limits set for the Aaronic priesthood, where ministry began at 30 and ended at 50. Melchizedek and Jesus were not limited gy this either.

The LORD said to Moses and Aaron: "Among the Levites take a total of the Kohathites, by clans and ancestral houses, all the men of the Kohathites between thirty and fifty years of age; these are to undertake obligatory tasks in the meeting tent. (Num 4:1-3)

 

[redrosetea]

Neither Melchizedek nor Jesus had a Levitical genealogy and they were not bound to the restriction, because Melchizedek came before the Levitical order and Christ came after. Neither beginning nor end refers to the age limits set for the Aaronic priesthood, where ministry began at 30 and ended at 50. Melchizedek and Jesus were not limited gy this either.

this is very deep like Alpha and Omega…without beginning or end…thank you

 

[armalanon]

hi the word probably leaves me a window open where i can reflect (probably sham was Melchizedek )leaves me this window open where probably I am right

 

[armalanon]

Neither Melchizedek nor Jesus had a Levitical genealogy and they were not bound to the restriction, because Melchizedek came before the Levitical order and Christ came after. Neither beginning nor end refers to the age limits set for the Aaronic priesthood, where ministry began at 30 and ended at 50. Melchizedek and Jesus were not limited gy this either.

this is very deep like Alpha and Omega…without beginning or end…thank you

this is very deep it means that I went deep and you agree with me or that I went deep and you dont agree, the Holyscripture has a supernatural look it goes so deep and so up .
only God knows what is the truth I am only here giving my view from my windo
thank you for sharing your view with me

 

[redrosetea]

this is very deep it means that I went deep and you agree with me or that I went deep and you dont agree, the Holyscripture has a supernatural look it goes so deep and so up .
only God knows what is the truth I am only here giving my view from my windo
thank you for sharing your view with me

I am just seeing alpha and omega in another light it is sort of an epiphany for me

I really never thought of the priesthood in that vein before…

 

[armalanon]

Take the words literally if you wish, but at least understand the non-literal interpretation. Those statements are made in contrast to the Levitical priesthood.

If, then, perfection came through the levitical priesthood, on the basis of which the people received the law, what need would there still have been for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not reckoned according to the order of Aaron? When there is a change of priesthood, there is necessarily a change of law as well. (Heb 7:11-12)

Without father or mother is in reference the requirement that priests in Israel show proof that they descended from the line of Aaron on their father and mothers side. Failure to meet these requirements made someone ineligible.

These men searched their family records, but their names could not be found written there; hence they were degraded from the priesthood, and His Excellency ordered them not to partake of the most holy foods until there should be a priest bearing the Urim and Thummim (Ezra 2:62-62)

Neither Melchizedek nor Jesus had a Levitical genealogy and they were not bound to the restriction, because Melchizedek came before the Levitical order and Christ came after. Neither beginning nor end refers to the age limits set for the Aaronic priesthood, where ministry began at 30 and ended at 50. Melchizedek and Jesus were not limited gy this either.

The LORD said to Moses and Aaron: "Among the Levites take a total of the Kohathites, by clans and ancestral houses, all the men of the Kohathites between thirty and fifty years of age; these are to undertake obligatory tasks in the meeting tent. (Num 4:1-3)

 

[armalanon]

there are times where it is not a bad idea if you take the words literally because God walked among us from the begining He who has no begining or end wishes us to take him literally word by word because if not once that his word leave his mouth wont return empty handed

 

[NotWorthy]

Neither Melchizedek nor Jesus had a Levitical genealogy and they were not bound to the restriction, because Melchizedek came before the Levitical order and Christ came after. Neither beginning nor end refers to the age limits set for the Aaronic priesthood, where ministry began at 30 and ended at 50. Melchizedek and Jesus were not limited gy this either.

this is very deep like Alpha and Omega…without beginning or end…thank you

And if Melchizedek was actually Shem, then he exceeded that 50 year old age limit by about 600 or so years!

 

[armalanon]

Hi if you wish to take a look on the catholic encyclopedia here on line it pretty much says what I meditated on I found it just now I thought I let you know .you showed interest in that vein God Bless

 

[armalanon]

I found proof for the words that I took literaly they are here on line on the catholic encyclopedia above other information there is also what I meditated on and I was right
God Bless

 

[Benadam]

The re-establishment of the image of God in man after the scandal of the first man born of woman.

The first born in the image of their father marks the beginning of the order of Melchizidek. It is founded on the penitent pattern of life of the only man of earth without geneology.

Gen. 5
1 This is the book of the generation of Adam. In the day that God created man, he made him to the likeness of God. 2 He created them male and female; and blessed them: and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. 3 And Adam lived a hundred and thirty years, and begot a son to his own image and likeness, and called his name Seth. 4 And the days of Adam, after he begot Seth, were eight hundred years: and he begot sons and daughters. 5 And all the time that Adam lived came to nine hundred and thirty years, and he died.

With the following statement a trinitarian formula is complete.

26 But to Seth also was born a son, whom he called Enos; this man began to call upon the name of the Lord.

This Priesthood is an order without father or mother because it is ordered after the archetypal penitent Holy Father of the human race.

Shem was the last man of earth to be ordained a Priest of the original priest and without the Second Adam he would have remained the last.

 

[raggetyann]

CHAPTER XXI3.
OF MELCHIZEDEK4.

NEITHER the father nor mother of this Melchizedek were written down in the genealogies; not that he had no natural parents5, but that p. 34 they were not written down. The greater number of the doctors say that he was of the seed of Canaan, whom Noah cursed. In the book of Chronography, however, (the author) affirms and says that he was of the seed of Shem the son of Noah. Shem begat Arphaxar, Arphaxar begat Cainan, and Cainan begat Shâlâh and Mâlâh, Shâlâh was written down in the genealogies; but Mâlâh was not, because his affairs were not sufficiently important to be written down in the genealogies. When p. 35 Noah died, he commanded Shem concerning the bones of Adam, for they were with them in the ark, and were removed from the land of Eden to this earth. Then Shem entered the ark, and sealed it with his father’s seal, and said to his brethren, ‘My father commanded me to go and see the sources of the rivers and the seas and the structure of the earth, and to return.’ And he said to Mâlâh the father of Melchizedek, and to Yôzâdâk his mother, ‘Give me your son that he may be with me, and behold, my wife and my children are with you.’ Melchizedek’s parents said to him, ‘My lord, take thy servant; and may the angel of peace be with thee, and protect thee from wild beasts and desolation of the earth.’ Shem went by night into the ark, and took Adam’s coffin; and he sealed up the ark, saying to his brethren, ‘My father commanded me that no one should go into it.’ And he journeyed by night with the angel before him, and Melchizedek with him, until they came and stood upon the spot where our Lord was crucified. When they had laid the coffin down there, the earth was rent in the form of a cross1, and swallowed up the coffin, and was again sealed up and returned to its former condition. Shem laid his hand upon Melchizedek’s head, and blessed him, and delivered to him the priesthood, and commanded him to dwell there until the end of his life. And he said to him, ‘Thou shalt not drink wine nor any intoxicating liquor, neither shall a razor pass over thy head; thou shalt not offer up to God an offering of beasts, but only fine flour and olive oil and wine; thou shalt not build a house for thyself; and may the God of thy fathers be with thee.’ And Shem returned to his brethren, and Melchizedek’s parents said to him, ‘Where is our son?’ Shem said, ‘He died while he was with me on the way, and I buried him;’ and they mourned for him a month of days; but Melchizedek dwelt in that place until he died. When he was old, the kings of the earth heard his fame, and eleven of them gathered together and came to see him; and they entreated him to go with them, but he would not be persuaded. And when he did not conform to their wishes, they built a city for him there, and he called it Jerusalem; and the kings said to one another, ‘This is the king of all the earth, and the father of nations.’ When Abraham came p. 36 back from the battle of the kings and the nations, he passed by the mount of Jerusalem; and Melchizedek came forth to meet him, and Abraham made obeisance to Melchizedek, and gave him tithes of all that he had with him. And Melchizedek embraced him and blessed him, and gave him bread and wine from that which he was wont to offer up as an offering.

Chapter XXI - Of MelchizedekShem laid his hand upon Melchizedek’s head, and blessed him, and delivered to him the priesthood, and commanded him to dwell there until the end of his life …
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