Members of the SSPX are not heretics

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maurin said:
Point 2: foolish response requiring no thought. You know, I am about as sick of hearing thoughtless responses like this .
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As I am also. I’ve attended the TLM every Sunday for the past 12 years and I’m convinced now that there are very many people who attend and support that rite of Mass are mentally and emotionally disturbed and rife with theological and moral errors. I know that sounds judgemental, but those are just observations from one person.
Remember the hippies chanting in front of LBJ"S Whitehouse?
(Hey, hey, LBJ…?)
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That was before my time, but I am just as tired of that generation’s dominance of everything as I am of disgruntled traditionalists.
I have a new one for my Traditionalist brothers and sisters who spout such poison:
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You perhaps used the term “poison” in jest but I would use it more seriously. They not only keep people away from the TLM, they damage the Church and themselves. I’ve seen families destroyed by trad extremism. It’s a very dangerous temptation and many can fall into it without even thinking. It’s deceptive – the person drifts farther away, all the while thinking he or she is even more and more filled with truth and correctness and virtue. Sedevacantism is but a few steps away. From there it’s not far to outright atheism – as we see with some extreme Protestant believers who walk the same path.

In any case, I did appreciate your comments – thank you.
 
reggieM said:
As I am also. I’ve attended the TLM every Sunday for the past 12 years and I’m convinced now that there are very many people who attend and support that rite of Mass are mentally and emotionally disturbed and rife with theological and moral errors. I know that sounds judgemental, but those are just observations from one person.
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Another absurd statement. reggieM----you are getting out of line.
 
I am scratching my head as I originally believed SSPX was a schismatic group due to initial disobedience, thus making their sacraments valid but illicit.

As for heretical, I don’t know about the whole group, but I do know every person in my life who goes to a TLM exclusively or is in an SSPX parish/group is heretical.

I guess those who are heretical are drawn to this group? :confused:

“To the pure, all things look pure. To the impure, all things look impure.”

They as a group certainly seem to have huge hang-ups over the theology of the body. They seem to lean towards arianism or stoicism.
 
hasikelee said:
I am scratching my head as I originally believed SSPX was a schismatic group due to initial disobedience, thus making their sacraments valid but illicit.

As for heretical, I don’t know about the whole group, but I do know every person in my life who goes to a TLM exclusively or is in an SSPX parish/group is heretical.
I guess those who are heretical are drawn to this group? :confused:

“To the pure, all things look pure. To the impure, all things look impure.”

They as a group certainly seem to have huge hang-ups over the theology of the body. They seem to lean towards arianism or stoicism.
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Do you know what arianism is. This post is also absurd and out of line.
 
Walking_Home said:
Another absurd statement. reggieM----you are getting out of line.
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Just out of curiosity, why is this absurd? Do you attend the same church as Reggie? If not, how do you know what his experience is?

I don’t attend the TLM on a regular basis and my experience with the congregation at large is very limited so I’d say that among the people I know, that I’d say there is little difference between those with those problems than those at the local Church down the street. Someone else who attends that Mass on a regular basis and know the people better might have a different view than me or Reggie or the same as Reggie.
 
bear06 said:
Just out of curiosity, why is this absurd? Do you attend the same church as Reggie? If not, how do you know what his experience is?

I don’t attend the TLM on a regular basis and my experience with the congregation at large is very limited so I’d say that among the people I know, that I’d say there is little difference between those with those problems than those at the local Church down the street. Someone else who attends that Mass on a regular basis and know the people better might have a different view than me or Reggie or the same as Reggie.
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His statement—when he said–“that rite of Mass” --it is a blanket statement—aim it at all who attend the TLM.

Quote=reggieM
that there are very many people who attend and support that rite of Mass are mentally and emotionally disturbed and rife with theological and moral errors.
 
Walking_Home said:
His statement—when he said–“that rite of Mass” --it is a blanket statement—aim it at all who attend the TLM.

Quote=reggieM
that there are very many people who attend and support that rite of Mass are mentally and emotionally disturbed and rife with theological and moral errors.
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He also said “very many” which is not aimed at all. I doubt he considers himself in that category.
 
bear06 said:
He also said “very many” which is not aimed at all. I doubt he considers himself in that category.
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Very many—who attend that rite of Mass. By saying “that rite of Mass”–he is making a statement about the TLM in general.

I agree–he does not consider himself in that category–since it seems --his category is attacking the TLM and the very many people who attend it.
 
Walking_Home said:
Very many—who attend that rite of Mass. By saying “that rite of Mass”–he is making a statement about the TLM in general.

I agree–he does not consider himself in that category–since it seems --his category is attacking the TLM and the very many people who attend it.
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It doesn’t seem that you read very well. He’s a TLMer and one of its attendees.
I’ve attended the TLM every Sunday for the past 12 years
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I don’t see any absurdity in my observations about people I’ve met in my own community as well as the others I’ve attended (SSPX and Indult).

You might disagree with me, but it is in no way “absurd” to make an observation like I have.

To simply say my comment is absurd is not much of a response. But you’ve said that twice without explanation.

The Holy Father himself has issued some harsh critiques of the traditionalist mind-set so I’m not alone in my opinions.

In what way is this “out of line”?
 
bear06 said:
It doesn’t seem that you read very well. He’s a TLMer and one of its attendees.
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I can read very well–thank you very much. As far as he being a TLMer–yea—it shows.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=1891519#post1891519

Quote=reggieM
One reason I’m sad to see this traditional Catholic forum on CA is because many people will absorb errors of traditionalism and there is not much available to correct them.

Post 15
Quote=reggieM
I think that’s true. But I look hard and the errors of traditionalism are easy for me to see.
 
🙂 Hi!

While I wouldn’t go so far as to say something along the lines that “any and all traditionalists are plain and simple heretics,”

I’ll just simply point out from many years of experience, something that goes like this:

**Heresy can be found most anywhere at any time in history.

But!

Where disobedience to lawfully-constituted authority is already present, no matter how perfumed and disguised it may be, guess what?**

Heresy flourishes! 😉

Aurelio:thumbsup:
 
I was in that category for years. So it does take one to know one. I shared extreme opinions with many fellow TLM attendees. Eventually, I woke up to my own errors and sinful attitudes which I thought were “traditionalism” (e.g. “true Catholicism”) but were actually a fraud.

So, I’m very sensitive to the same thing that I see in other people now. People are easily drawn into trad-extremism. To me it’s blatantly obvious. I’m sorry if that sounds harsh.

I find an incredible contradiction also among traditionalists who don’t hesitate to mock and criticize the Pope and “Novus Ordoites” and have a lot of laughter about that – but they certainly get angry and thin-skinned when someone points out their own wrong ideas. I’ve seen these people (like Michael Matt at the Remnant) act like he’s some kind of wounded victim, just after he attacked the entire Church and claims that people in the average parish attend “circus Masses”.

As I said, to me it’s quite obvious and clear. But if you’re swimming in traditionalist-resentment you can’t get the distance to really view yourself.
 
Walking_Home said:
I can read very well–thank you very much. As far as he being a TLMer–yea—it shows.
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Walking – you’re a “walking” example of exactly what I’m talking about. You walked right into it. You know nothing about me but in a few posts, you accuse me of being a liar.

Your attitude is clear. I’ve seen it for many years. It’s also clear to me that I know more about the TLM and trad Mass communities than you probably ever will.

But that sounds like bragging and I think it’s enough to say that you’re way over your head. You make no hesitation at all to say I’m lying. But you’re falsely accusing me of the same and that does not phase you a bit.

That’s trad Catholicism as I’ve known it. You’re living evidence and I hope some day you will see that and change.
 
reggieM said:
I was in that category for years. So it does take one to know one. I shared extreme opinions with many fellow TLM attendees. Eventually, I woke up to my own errors and sinful attitudes which I thought were “traditionalism” (e.g. “true Catholicism”) but were actually a fraud.

So, I’m very sensitive to the same thing that I see in other people now. People are easily drawn into trad-extremism. To me it’s blatantly obvious. I’m sorry if that sounds harsh.

I find an incredible contradiction also among traditionalists who don’t hesitate to mock and criticize the Pope and “Novus Ordoites” and have a lot of laughter about that – but they certainly get angry and thin-skinned when someone points out their own wrong ideas. I’ve seen these people (like Michael Matt at the Remnant) act like he’s some kind of wounded victim, just after he attacked the entire Church and claims that people in the average parish attend “circus Masses”.

As I said, to me it’s quite obvious and clear. But if you’re swimming in traditionalist-resentment you can’t get the distance to really view yourself.
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Baloney----I don’t attend the TLM --but I can spot a person with an agenda.
 
You’ve accused me of being a liar, Walking. So there’s clearly no reason for me to communicate with you until you retract and apologize for that.

Until then, you’re on record as stating that I have falsely claimed to have attended the TLM every Sunday for 12 years.

Sorry, I cannot bother to reply to someone who simply calls me a liar with no evidence except that you didn’t like the way I criticized the errors of traditionalism.

Clearly, you believe it is impossible that traditionalism has any errors at all.
 
I wouldn’t take such a hard-line if people would qualify their statements and use some discretion.

But I’m just seeing a traditionalist agenda being swallowed hook-line and sinker and I know from personal experience that it can lead people right out of the Church (sedevacantism for one thing).

I don’t know the people on this thread – for example, I didn’t know Walking Home at all before this.
 
reggieM said:
You perhaps used the term “poison” in jest but I would use it more seriously. They not only keep people away from the TLM, they damage the Church and themselves.
In any case, I did appreciate your comments – thank you.
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Dear reggieM,

I used the term ‘poison’ in my original post because, in my opinion only, any unconstructive, thoughtless attack of the Normative Mass (NO) or the Traditional Latin Mass, is poisonous to the Body of Christ.

I was kept away from the Traditional Latin Mass for a long time because the Traditionalists I knew constantly spouted such poison. Little did I know that I was missing the best experiences I could possibly have in the Traditional Church. Much more intimate and edifying experiences than I ever had in the Normative Mass.

It is unconscienable that anyone would speak of the Holy Mass in such terms, especially if one is calls oneself Catholic.

Just my not-so-humble opinion.
 
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