M
Methodi
Guest
I have heard that the woman carry on a whole lot worse than the men do at male strip reviews. Heard it from women who went to them
- Status
J
JimG
Guest
Yes, that’s what I’ve heard as well. Men try to act cool about watching strippers, whereas women just go crazy with those dollar bills.
M
Methodi
Guest
Thats exactly what I heard, real crazy with them dollar bills & they also want the sweat from the men too,I think some of the male strippers may be in danger with some of these woman
S
SomeSunnyDay
Guest
I agree that some of these women have indeed been victimized, but usually they wind up working in strip clubs because of past victimization, such as a husband or boyfriend who got them pregnant and then disappeared, leaving her with a child to support.
One of my best friends in high school (a skilled ballerina by training) ended up working in a strip club for about 4 months to get herself out of a bad financial situation she’d been left in after she ran away from an abusive husband.
She had to leave him because she was literally in fear of her life and feared for her children’s safety. She ran away in the middle of the night while the brute slept, taking the kids with her. But she had no place to go, no car, no money, and no job. She did have a college degree, but none of the jobs she applied for paid anywhere close to enough to support a single mom and two children.
She hated the thought of having to dance around nearly nude for men until at the end of her first night, when she went home with more than $1000 CASH in her pocket. She was able to go out and get an apartment the very next day. (In any other job, she’d have to scrimp and save for weeks just to cough up a deposit.)
Within 2 weeks, she had a car and didn’t have to put her safety in danger by taking the bus to and from work. She had a way to drive her kids to school, and money to buy groceries with.
To a woman in a bad situation with no other prospects, the financial aspect of working in the adult industry is in fact very liberating, and sadly, is sometimes the only way our society and economy allows single or divorced low-income women to provide a decent standard of living for themselves. (I mean, *how many *years did it take to pass the Lilly Ledbetter law mandating equal pay for equal work? Hello?)
Yes, of course, these women have to grin and bear a lot of sexual harassment in that type of job. And yes, of course, they have to flirt with and be nice to the customers - or else they won’t get paid. Of course they will fib and tell a customer who asks that they LIKE their job…what are they supposed to say? “No, actually I really hate this job, and I think you’re a total skeeze, so please take your money and get away from me!”
Again, I agree it’s a sad statement about our society, and I feel great sympathy in my heart for some of these girls who work as strippers. But we shouldn’t paint them all as weak or evil, or stupid, or maneaters, or women who have no respect for themselves or their bodies. (Is not feeding your body and being self-reliant respecting yourself?)
Sure, some are hopelessly addicted to drugs and choose the lifestyle to support their bad habits, but others (many, in fact) are beautiful, educated, moral women who simply found themselves in a desperate place and needed an influx of quick cash to get them out of it. (In my friend’s case, she could not lean on her family for financial support, as they were also low-income.)
For these types of women, exotic dancing is strictly a means to an end. For my girlfriend who had to do this, for example, she found that stripping provided her a way to put her natural beauty and training as a dancer to use while making more money than she ever could in a “straight job.” It also allowed her to make great money without actually having to engage in sexual activity with the customers (many women who strip could never lower themselves to prostitution). She used the job to help her meet her short-term life goals (getting a place to live, a car, and a little savings), then she wisely got out…and NEVER looked back!
This is what the smart girls do. It’s a part of their life they don’t want to think about, don’t want to remember. But they cannot totally regret it, because when they were in a desperate situation, the job provided them a way to rebuild their lives and provide for their children.
I could never judge a woman harshly for doing that, and I’d like to think that Jesus wouldn’t, either. So let’s all try to reserve our judgement until we ourselves or someone we love has been in a similar situation. After all, if your daughter or sister had been hung out to dry by an irresponsible or abusive husband, would you judge her if she was forced to try stripping for a while?
One of my best friends in high school (a skilled ballerina by training) ended up working in a strip club for about 4 months to get herself out of a bad financial situation she’d been left in after she ran away from an abusive husband.
She had to leave him because she was literally in fear of her life and feared for her children’s safety. She ran away in the middle of the night while the brute slept, taking the kids with her. But she had no place to go, no car, no money, and no job. She did have a college degree, but none of the jobs she applied for paid anywhere close to enough to support a single mom and two children.
She hated the thought of having to dance around nearly nude for men until at the end of her first night, when she went home with more than $1000 CASH in her pocket. She was able to go out and get an apartment the very next day. (In any other job, she’d have to scrimp and save for weeks just to cough up a deposit.)
Within 2 weeks, she had a car and didn’t have to put her safety in danger by taking the bus to and from work. She had a way to drive her kids to school, and money to buy groceries with.
To a woman in a bad situation with no other prospects, the financial aspect of working in the adult industry is in fact very liberating, and sadly, is sometimes the only way our society and economy allows single or divorced low-income women to provide a decent standard of living for themselves. (I mean, *how many *years did it take to pass the Lilly Ledbetter law mandating equal pay for equal work? Hello?)
Yes, of course, these women have to grin and bear a lot of sexual harassment in that type of job. And yes, of course, they have to flirt with and be nice to the customers - or else they won’t get paid. Of course they will fib and tell a customer who asks that they LIKE their job…what are they supposed to say? “No, actually I really hate this job, and I think you’re a total skeeze, so please take your money and get away from me!”
Again, I agree it’s a sad statement about our society, and I feel great sympathy in my heart for some of these girls who work as strippers. But we shouldn’t paint them all as weak or evil, or stupid, or maneaters, or women who have no respect for themselves or their bodies. (Is not feeding your body and being self-reliant respecting yourself?)
Sure, some are hopelessly addicted to drugs and choose the lifestyle to support their bad habits, but others (many, in fact) are beautiful, educated, moral women who simply found themselves in a desperate place and needed an influx of quick cash to get them out of it. (In my friend’s case, she could not lean on her family for financial support, as they were also low-income.)
For these types of women, exotic dancing is strictly a means to an end. For my girlfriend who had to do this, for example, she found that stripping provided her a way to put her natural beauty and training as a dancer to use while making more money than she ever could in a “straight job.” It also allowed her to make great money without actually having to engage in sexual activity with the customers (many women who strip could never lower themselves to prostitution). She used the job to help her meet her short-term life goals (getting a place to live, a car, and a little savings), then she wisely got out…and NEVER looked back!
This is what the smart girls do. It’s a part of their life they don’t want to think about, don’t want to remember. But they cannot totally regret it, because when they were in a desperate situation, the job provided them a way to rebuild their lives and provide for their children.
I could never judge a woman harshly for doing that, and I’d like to think that Jesus wouldn’t, either. So let’s all try to reserve our judgement until we ourselves or someone we love has been in a similar situation. After all, if your daughter or sister had been hung out to dry by an irresponsible or abusive husband, would you judge her if she was forced to try stripping for a while?
S
SomeSunnyDay
Guest
Please keep the above true life story in mind next time you “accidentally” happen to stumble into a strip club.
Seek out one of the quality ladies and engage her in a conversation - you just might be surprised by how intelligent and sweet she really is. You might find yourself starting to feel some real empathy if you bother to learn about her situation.
Whether you hire her for a lap dance or just talk to her for 30 minutes, remember that she’s probably not doing this job because she really likes it; she’s got mouths to feed and rent to pay. So if you’re going to take up her time at work (because stripping is, despite all male fantasies to the contrary, *just a job *to the girls who do it), please remember to tip her very generously!!!
Remember, these girls don’t work for an hourly wage in most cases (or like restaurant servers, their hourly is far less than minimum wage) - they make their living off of tips. So ask yourself - “what would Jesus do?” - and show them love, respect, acceptance, and generosity.
Seek out one of the quality ladies and engage her in a conversation - you just might be surprised by how intelligent and sweet she really is. You might find yourself starting to feel some real empathy if you bother to learn about her situation.
Whether you hire her for a lap dance or just talk to her for 30 minutes, remember that she’s probably not doing this job because she really likes it; she’s got mouths to feed and rent to pay. So if you’re going to take up her time at work (because stripping is, despite all male fantasies to the contrary, *just a job *to the girls who do it), please remember to tip her very generously!!!
Remember, these girls don’t work for an hourly wage in most cases (or like restaurant servers, their hourly is far less than minimum wage) - they make their living off of tips. So ask yourself - “what would Jesus do?” - and show them love, respect, acceptance, and generosity.
J
JimG
Guest
SomeSunnyDay, thanks for those stories. It’s always good to remember that these are real people no matter how we may stereotype them, with real lives and real life stories behind them.
S
SomeSunnyDay
Guest
Well, Jim, I used to have the same unenlightened view of strippers until my best friend was forced to actually become one.
Considering that I was the one who rescued her and her children in the middle of the night, I was the one who took her and the kids in to live temporarily in my small apartment until she could get her own place, I loaned her money when I could, and I watched her go through the whole ordeal from start to finish, I could no longer judge women who had to take on this kind of work.
For the first few weeks she worked at the strip club, I would insist on driving her to and from work because I did not want to see her taking the bus. She was scared at first in this environment, and asked me to “hang out” during her shifts for moral support and protection. So, I found myself spending many long hours in these clubs, and got to know her co-workers personally. I was surprised to discover that most of these women were in similar situations, and that most of them were well-educated, had a strong moral code, determination and willpower to burn, and a definite plan for their lives. They were by no means “dumb hussies.”
So now, anytime I hear someone insulting a stripper, I feel compelled to step up and come to their defense. These women need our understanding, protection, and support. They get humiliated enough in the job itself, so let’s spare them the added humiliation of being scorned or shunned by polite society.
I will always admire her self-reliance and strength during those tough times. Rather than admitting herself to a battered women’s shelter or weeping, “oh poor me, I’m such a victim!”, she instead focused on how to provide for herself and those kids. And she was willing to take any job (no matter how humiliating it was to her personally) that would pay a wage she could live on.
Btw, I am pleased to report that she has since remarried (to a good guy this time), gone back to school and got a second degree, and now has a good-paying job working for the phone company. She and her new hubby are also the proud parents of a new baby boy, born last December!!!
So it’s good to know that there is always hope for the hopeless, and that many moral, smart women have figured out how to make lemonade from the lemons they were given.
We shouldn’t blame the women for having to take a job in the adult industry (in truth, I don’t know of ANY women who would choose to do this “just for the fun of it.” It’s always because they need the money). Rather, we should lay the blame squarely where it belongs…on the shoulders of the man who made such a demeaning choice inevitable for her.
I sure as heck don’t blame my girlfriend for doing what she had to do under the circumstances. I blame the abusive lout who LIED when he promised to love, honor and cherish her at the altar!
Considering that I was the one who rescued her and her children in the middle of the night, I was the one who took her and the kids in to live temporarily in my small apartment until she could get her own place, I loaned her money when I could, and I watched her go through the whole ordeal from start to finish, I could no longer judge women who had to take on this kind of work.
For the first few weeks she worked at the strip club, I would insist on driving her to and from work because I did not want to see her taking the bus. She was scared at first in this environment, and asked me to “hang out” during her shifts for moral support and protection. So, I found myself spending many long hours in these clubs, and got to know her co-workers personally. I was surprised to discover that most of these women were in similar situations, and that most of them were well-educated, had a strong moral code, determination and willpower to burn, and a definite plan for their lives. They were by no means “dumb hussies.”
So now, anytime I hear someone insulting a stripper, I feel compelled to step up and come to their defense. These women need our understanding, protection, and support. They get humiliated enough in the job itself, so let’s spare them the added humiliation of being scorned or shunned by polite society.
I will always admire her self-reliance and strength during those tough times. Rather than admitting herself to a battered women’s shelter or weeping, “oh poor me, I’m such a victim!”, she instead focused on how to provide for herself and those kids. And she was willing to take any job (no matter how humiliating it was to her personally) that would pay a wage she could live on.
Btw, I am pleased to report that she has since remarried (to a good guy this time), gone back to school and got a second degree, and now has a good-paying job working for the phone company. She and her new hubby are also the proud parents of a new baby boy, born last December!!!
So it’s good to know that there is always hope for the hopeless, and that many moral, smart women have figured out how to make lemonade from the lemons they were given.
We shouldn’t blame the women for having to take a job in the adult industry (in truth, I don’t know of ANY women who would choose to do this “just for the fun of it.” It’s always because they need the money). Rather, we should lay the blame squarely where it belongs…on the shoulders of the man who made such a demeaning choice inevitable for her.
I sure as heck don’t blame my girlfriend for doing what she had to do under the circumstances. I blame the abusive lout who LIED when he promised to love, honor and cherish her at the altar!
J
JimG
Guest
No-fault divorce laws have made even lying irrelevant. Marriage contracts, which are supposedly lifelong covenants, are now less enforceable than a mortgage or a monthly lease. Either party can walk out anytime, no matter what was promised.
S
SomeSunnyDay
Guest
Legally, yes.
Morally, no.
The courts here are going to do whatever they will do. But I think that God keeps his own accounting of covenants…and never forgets who didn’t hold up their end of a bargain and why.
If there is no justice to be had in this world, I still want to believe that all things will be equalized in the next.
Morally, no.
The courts here are going to do whatever they will do. But I think that God keeps his own accounting of covenants…and never forgets who didn’t hold up their end of a bargain and why.
If there is no justice to be had in this world, I still want to believe that all things will be equalized in the next.
R
RAGGANDI
Guest
I tend to think of women as equals. After all, they are “flesh of my flesh, and bone of my bone” Gn 2:23
I try to remember that only man was created from dust. Woman was created from Adam’s very being by God to be the perfect PARTNER–not an object of lust.
And I’m with the OP on this one…I’m a 55 year old male and I’ve never been to a strip club and truly never saw the point. Of course I was raised to respect women–a trait that my wife says “clinched” the deal with her. It figures that both of our children would be girls!
S
SeekingHeaven
Guest
These men go to these strip clubs for the purpose of escapism. Why do people enjoy watching fantasy films? It’s all about fantasy for the most part. Perhaps these men truly are disappointed, unhappy, and flat-out bored with their lives that a simple trip to the strip club gives them a taste of fantasy of an alternate lifestyle while satisfying some primitive, carnal urge at the same time.
And yes, it is quite sad that these women are seen only as objects by these people, but you’ve got to understand that they all made a choice to be there. There’s plenty of other jobs to choose from, you know, but sometimes the “easy ways out” are the toughest paths to follow.
And yes, it is quite sad that these women are seen only as objects by these people, but you’ve got to understand that they all made a choice to be there. There’s plenty of other jobs to choose from, you know, but sometimes the “easy ways out” are the toughest paths to follow.
S
Serap
Guest
Well, Jim, I used to have the same unenlightened view of strippers until my best friend was forced to actually become one.
QUOTE]
I agree with you to a point, but unfortunately the vast majority of women that work as strippers don’t get out and end up learning to numb themselves with substance abuse. They lose their dignity and self-respect. They begin to hate themselves.
My girlfriend and I in university also did a project on strippers and we visited stripjoints and interviewed the strippers. Almost all of them had been sexually molested as children and then had went on to have abusive relationships with men. Many of them were mothers also.
Your friend is an exception. She is lucky to have been able to walk away. Many of these women don’t leave and they end up in a rut. They drink to take the pain away. They perpetuate their abuse by continuing to have abusive boyfriends while stripping.
I don’t understand why men think these women enjoy doing what they do. How could a woman love herself and strip at the same time? Honestly?
Your friend is a unique case and in every situation, there is always a unique case that is not the norm. The vast majority of strippers that I have met, get stuck and don’t know how to get out. They eventually get kicked out when they become too old to do it anymore.
It’s really sad. I was sexually molested as a child and was strong enough to overcome it. I too am not the norm. Unfortunately, other women are not as strong and they are not able to be the pheonix that raises itself out of the fire. They are not weak by any means, but they are stuck and maintain a “barely surviving” status quo.
QUOTE]
I agree with you to a point, but unfortunately the vast majority of women that work as strippers don’t get out and end up learning to numb themselves with substance abuse. They lose their dignity and self-respect. They begin to hate themselves.
My girlfriend and I in university also did a project on strippers and we visited stripjoints and interviewed the strippers. Almost all of them had been sexually molested as children and then had went on to have abusive relationships with men. Many of them were mothers also.
Your friend is an exception. She is lucky to have been able to walk away. Many of these women don’t leave and they end up in a rut. They drink to take the pain away. They perpetuate their abuse by continuing to have abusive boyfriends while stripping.
I don’t understand why men think these women enjoy doing what they do. How could a woman love herself and strip at the same time? Honestly?
Your friend is a unique case and in every situation, there is always a unique case that is not the norm. The vast majority of strippers that I have met, get stuck and don’t know how to get out. They eventually get kicked out when they become too old to do it anymore.
It’s really sad. I was sexually molested as a child and was strong enough to overcome it. I too am not the norm. Unfortunately, other women are not as strong and they are not able to be the pheonix that raises itself out of the fire. They are not weak by any means, but they are stuck and maintain a “barely surviving” status quo.
S
SemperReformada
Guest
I worked as a bouncer at a few “gentlemen’s” clubs and for the most part, I would say that it was the guys who were being vicimized.
S
Serap
Guest
I guess they were the poor victims when they walked in the door
…depends how you look at it.
You could also say that the wives of these men are also victims since the money spent on the exotic dancers could have gone towards their family.
M
Methodi
Guest
I guess they were the poor victims when they walked in the door
…depends how you look at it.
You could also say that the wives of these men are also victims since the money spent on the exotic dancers could have gone towards their family.
E
Epistemes
Guest
SomeSunnyDay,
I agree with you that none of us should be blatantly condemning these girls. I, for my part, have tried steering clear of just that because I do recognize in them suffering individuals, just life myself, but I’m not going to support single mothers by buying lap dances or other pseudo-sex acts from them. Philanthropy does not make strip clubs morally justifiable. I’ll give money to charity before ever sticking another $25 in her garter. (Plus, do you even realize the harsh percentages these girls work with? The club will typically take 85% of her evening’s earnings!)
At heart, yes, many of these girls, like your friend, are “daddy’s girls” who have unfortunately experienced life at its cruelest, and it’s for this very reason that I boycotted my own regular attendance “with the fellas.” I empathized so greatly with one of the girls one time that I seriously fell in love with her. I was a fool, yes, and probably was being played, no doubt, but she opened up to me, exposed to me how she had been on the road, finding work from club to club, how she had gotten pregnant, was now back at home with her parents, etc. And she drank a lot: shot after shot after shot of liquor (to cover the pain, I suspect). I sincerely felt bad for her, and I wanted to be the one to take her away from it all and show her how good life could be. But she got scared and chose to remain where life was predictable even if miserable.
And this is the pattern that I discovered. Strip clubs are supposed to be where man feels like a mighty lion, lazily surveying a savannah of easily chasable nude women – yet the girls were more than ready to divulge their neediness, their broken relationships, and to order shot after shot after shot.
So, no, we shouldn’t condemn, but we also shouldn’t condone.
D
DJgang
Guest
I don’t get it and never have … why do men frequent these places?
Then a little over a year ago, my DH tells me that he hadn’t been to one since we’ve been married… that is going on 12 years. Said that he and a friend went to one about a year before we married.
Then just this past Tuesday, he and three other men that work for us go to a trade show … .in KY for overnight …
Where did he take them?
A strip club.
Now … what is a woman to do when she has three young children, a 12 year marriage and two businesses owned with a man that she does love …
Everyone in our businesses knew that they had went before the end of Thursday afternoon … everyone expect me! Then I found out. I lost it.
It’s not a good feeling to have and I don’t know where to go from here.
I don’t allow it. I had no idea that it would happen. It’s really not something we talk about. I don’t forbid my husband from doing things, I’m not a nagger and my goodness, we have relations, it’s not like he’s be deprived…
anyway … just answering some people’s questions about *how do you marry someone like that" or “how do they allow it” … well, now you can see every situation is different.
God bless. Dana
Then a little over a year ago, my DH tells me that he hadn’t been to one since we’ve been married… that is going on 12 years. Said that he and a friend went to one about a year before we married.
Then just this past Tuesday, he and three other men that work for us go to a trade show … .in KY for overnight …
Where did he take them?
A strip club.
Now … what is a woman to do when she has three young children, a 12 year marriage and two businesses owned with a man that she does love …
Everyone in our businesses knew that they had went before the end of Thursday afternoon … everyone expect me! Then I found out. I lost it.
It’s not a good feeling to have and I don’t know where to go from here.
I don’t allow it. I had no idea that it would happen. It’s really not something we talk about. I don’t forbid my husband from doing things, I’m not a nagger and my goodness, we have relations, it’s not like he’s be deprived…
anyway … just answering some people’s questions about *how do you marry someone like that" or “how do they allow it” … well, now you can see every situation is different.
God bless. Dana
C
Charles_22
Guest
Yes, I don’t like the idea that it’s also a good idea to -not- go to the battered women’s center and strip instead. It seems to get across the idea that you’re too proud to go to the women’s center, but not too proud to strip. Also, I like your idea of not going to one of those places, which if going there would place yourself in a proximate danger of sin (which is a mortal sin), in order to somehow contribute to them getting out of the place.
Contributing to the women’s center (probably a harbinger of typical secular society, IOW, promoting the culture of death) would be a way of doing that if they would bother to go to them, unlike the story we heard earlier, but a more useful place to put it still might be in the parish closest to the strip club, which might be a place some of them might go.
There was a saint, I cannot recall who it was, but on one or more occasions he snuck in the night and somehow or other left money for some girls who were in dnager of falling into prostitution because they were so bad off. I believe he slipped it into the window they had open at their home.
C
Charles_22
Guest
Maybe you should pretend he was tricked into it, that is if you wouldn’t rather find out the facts instead. It hasn’t happened to me, but believe me, all you have to do is end up being a passenger in the car when they go off somewhere and you’re stuck with where they go, and certain individuals love to trap some guys they know wouldn’t go otherwise like that. Now I guess if that happened to him, if he were thinking, and strong, he would just walk off to some other place, or perhaps, better yet, sit in the car until the other guys had their time. He could possibly also find a phone and call for a taxi or something out of there. Then again, what can he do if the other guys actually physically force him into the place? Any of these things could had happened (but you did say he drove).
Maybe you should see if he would like to repent it? I would hope all he did was gawk at the girls as awful as that must be to you, but hopefully he didn’t do worse than that. Hopefully you can forgive him and that he wants to be forgiven (though he needn’t ask for forgiveness for you to give it, but if he did it would make it better).
D
DJgang
Guest
Thanks Charles.
I asked him when I found out. He told me that they all wanted to go so HE took them. We are business owners and I assume that he treated them for a night out.
He didn’t repent. Told me that I was making a mountain out of a mole hill. I know that nothing happened. I have no reason to suspect that, but he just doesn’t understand the hurt regardless. He has yet to say I’m sorry, he doesn’t think anything is wrong. Goodness, yes, I would feel better if he said I’m sorry, but he hasn’t and I can’t make him.
It’s my problem and I’ll have to deal with it. (Don’t want to hijack this thread)
God bless. Dana
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