Men CANNOT love.

[opusAquinas]

Where do you find this? In the BIble? From the Tradition?
If you are a theologian, you should use quotes from one of those.

“We cannot love but we can follow instructions”, you say.
Why did Jesus fulfill the law, by saying “love your brother like yourself”? If I accept that, I don’t just follow rules, I place my will in parallel with Jesus’ will, thus God’s.

And still you don’t give evidence. If you say we just follow but woman actually do, are they not both following the commandment of love? Or do women not need this command?

Jesus says: if someone loves, he will follow my commandments. So to follow Jesus, we have to love him. And that we can do, you said.
Where is the consistency?

Jesus says we can love Him by doing what He says. Following His commands.
And yet some can follow His commands while also loving Him.

I was once at a Jesuit place. And I said I love the Lord. They rolled their eyes and said you only love how the Lord makes you feel. Men cannot love. Then they realized that I am one of the exceptions. I love our Lord however imperfectly. But I can love.

 

[opusAquinas]

since you brought that up, i think you should be able to explain this by yourself. Aren’t you one of the women who can love?

If i claim something, either i use the conditional, or i bring evidence. Getting someone else isn’t evidence.

I am a man. You need to re-read this entire post. You need to study it carefully. Much wisdom to be gleaned here.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Just because some women can love does not mean they do not have original sin.

Just because men can love doesn’t mean they do not have orginal sin either. This and all the rest above this was wasted typing imho.

They do.

Both do

They can love but also they often just “like” themselves. And the trap they fall under is just because they can love does not mean they know how to love. For example, I can remember girls like these are often targeted taken advantage of because they can love but they don’t love themselves.

This is both, and your own personal confusion injected imho.

So no they did not receive mystical baptism.

The only thing mystical here is how you think you proved your point?

And they like everyone else even those who have need our Lord to be saved.

Ha, Amen like “everyone else”. I’ll have to think about what your really saying here “in between” the typing.

 

[MarcoPG]

Jesus says we can love Him by doing what He says. Following His commands.
And yet some can follow His commands while also loving Him.

I was once at a Jesuit place. And I said I love the Lord. They rolled their eyes and said you only love how the Lord makes you feel. Men cannot love. Then they realized that I am one of the exceptions. I love our Lord however imperfectly. But I can love.

The catholic position is that love (by the grace of faith) makes good actions valuable (merits). So to say that some just follow the rules because it is a command and some follow the rules and love is a tautology, or a pleonasm. As you wish. Not the following of the rules makes acting in love possible, but the other way around, loving grace make our will follow jesus will.

Are you in agreement with the religion you profess?

I am a man. You need to re-read this entire post. You need to study it carefully. Much wisdom to be gleaned here.

That was my point. Since you are an exception, you are in no position to generalize or make final statements. As exceptions are graceful, thus only God make those exceptions possible, not by a rule (which is the category which you would belong to since you are a man) but by grace of loving faith.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Are you in agreement with the religion you profess?

The million dollar question which your soul will rely on? Honestly, in the final analysis even understanding the Church, I pray for mercy, and by the moment, as in time we are judged moment by moment. So its persistent perceptional awareness of the self which can be only by Gods mercy. The next breath you breath is his blessing, then from here its clearer seeing the relevance of the sacraments of the Church in your moment by moment trials.

Further add to this the seven deadly sins and their understanding in Catholic theology and really there’s little secret here. The fallen nature is either in denial or not understood.

Grace by Faith or Faith by Grace? Baptism is given yet the responsibility to maintain it is grace by faith.

 

[SlaveofMary1208]

Love one another, as I have loved you. Implies that a capacity will then exist after the heavenly fruit is tasted. opusAquinas all are one in God and as God is love, all are loving, they just do not see how they are loving as there sight has been blinded by the deceit of sin. Turn back to the Lord and he will make straight the way.

 

[MarcoPG]

The million dollar question which your soul will rely on? Honestly, in the final analysis even understanding the Church, I pray for mercy, and by the moment, as in time we are judged moment by moment. So its persistent perceptional awareness of the self which can be only by Gods mercy. The next breath you breath is his blessing, then from here its clearer seeing the relevance of the sacraments of the Church in your moment by moment trials.

Further add to this the seven deadly sins and their understanding in Catholic theology and really there’s little secret here. The fallen nature is either in denial or not understood.

Grace by Faith or Faith by Grace? Baptism is given yet the responsibility to maintain it is grace by faith.

Yes, by grace of faith I meant faith, which is a grace. Then true, ultimate love can be understood and practiced only with faith.

I don’t see what I could add. Both are fallen, the diversities between men and women are in the “nature” of both, psychology, biology, and so on. But Original sin wasn’t endured more by Adam than by Eve. Just differently, as man and woman, sharing a same human nature, still have a** male or female nature** that makes them peculiar and complementary to another, not better or opposed to each other.

 

[JRKH]

Scripture never mentions bell curves or arithmetics.

I never mentioned these things either…so why are you bringing them up in reply to my post?

You don’t know what eros or agape or phileo love is because you cannot love. You cannot give love to others. You can only follow directions. Our Lord knows this so He left us instructions.

I find the above to be rather offensive since you do not know me and therefore cannot know if I am one of the exceptions that you admit exist.

I also find your earlier comment about living under a rock to be rather offensive.

That said…That fact remains that what you are espousing here IS a person opinion (or revelation if you prefer) and is NOT a teaching of the Catholic Church.
This is the important point. As Catholics we are free to disagree with your particular viewpoint.

Peace
James

 

[MarcoPG]

Yes the stain of original sin: concupiscence. The stain of original sin of course
explains why there are drugs, pornography, self-harm, jealousy, pride, lust etc. etc. And why men cannot love.

Many aren’t baptised, and the stain remains; when baptised we are cleansed from this very stain. BUT it doesn’t open the gates of Heaven! We are still weak, falible, and Baptism doesn’t save you from your personal sins. Why are there personal sins? Because there is freedom. Should the Original sin erase freedom by making us sin machines, or after Baptism should there be a rapture? No. Justification is one part of salvation. Sanctification is the other, suffering not to sin among other problems that e still have here BUT with the love of God.

So now, can Jesus command something impossible? If it was so, He would have done it for us.

This idea of Mystical baptism sounds to me like too many immaculate conceptions to me…as far as i know, there is an infallible “immaculate incarnation” (mind the brackets please!, Jesus), 2 immaculate creatures Adam and Eve, therefore fallible, and an Immaculate Conception, Mary, a creature who was redeemed in Eternity by his Son who still had to come among us, in time and History, but because of her unique collaboration in the plan of God, the Highest reward was given to her, that a creature could recieve.

The choosing of Jeremiah as prophet before he was born is a grace but no mystical baptism as you would like to say. At the best, the consacration here is comparable to the one of the Kings; Jesus was annointed with the Spirit and most probably decided with the Father and the Holy Spirit to appoint Jeremiah to give him this special mission of prophecy. By the Spirit he was inspired.
This has to do with Omniscience, but as a human being, he wasn’t baptised with the spirit before Jesus was, probably he recieved it after Jesus descended into the Hades.

So again,** where do the women took their love from**? Were they all mystically baptized? Why some weren’t? Why can you love if men cannot? What is about you?

I am waiting for a woman who can love to explain this to me (us). In the meantime I think of Saint Augustine who says “I loved you, and I didn’t know it”. How could he be aware that he loved God? When he recieved the Faith, he saw that, and possibly adjusted much of his works in accordance with God’s plan, and that crave for divine love that he had was fulfilled in Christ.

** Both men and women crave divine love**, as we are lost creatures. It can’t be filled by other creatures: Come to me says the Lord, well why not go to a woman that can love?
We do not love the Lord, you say, but we want Him. It is true, but that is not egoism, but because here in this purgatory (Earth) we seek justice, a home, and that need was permitted by God to know Him.
That is the stain that make us suffer, and can be washed away by Baptism IN TIME.
we know as Christians that Charity, humility, humbleness or kenosis are needed to see God (Love).
That we want Him shows that we love Him, and hate the world. Grace does it, not works without Grace. Then we turn back to Him. Again, wanting the Truth and the Love is not egoistic, it is the right Path, and on that Path we have to walk, we are not pulled or pushed towards God. We choose the right thing to do, not following the rules, but being in accordance with Love.

 

[LilyM]

As a woman, I would say that I have seen more than enough examples of selfless God-centred love in males, and selfish “love” in females (including the sex-with-someone-you-hate thing - for one, proatitutes have sex with people they hate all the time!).

I say the premise that love of any sort is somehow a monopoly of one gender is complete rot. And anyone who says otherwise doesn’t know enough people of both genders well enough.

Men and women are equally subject to, and capable of, both the concupiscence that blocks divine love and the “mystical baptism” you speak of - and there is nothing either in scripture or church teaching to indicate otherwise. All the commandments within and outside of scripture appear to be equally directed towards men and women.

 

[tonyrey]

The more absurd a hypothesis is the more difficult it is to disprove…

 

[rinnie]

Men cannot love. They can like but they cannot love.

So why does are Lord ask Simon if Simon loves Him???

Well to begin with Jesus knew Simon loved him. He asked him 3 times for many reasons.

One thing is Peter denied Jesus 3 times.

But what Jesus was looking for was not exactly the right answer, as much as the right answer in the right way, He got it the 3rd time.

First times Peter answered as a human, second human again. The third, the right way, Divine. He said You know the answer to that. Jesus knew that Peter loved him.

 

[empther]

tonyrey wrote,

The more absurd a hypothesis is the more difficult it is to disprove…

The more difficult it is to disprove because the person making the absurd hypothesis just won’t listen to reason?
If that’s what you meant I support it one hundred percent.
This is the most ridiculous thread yet.

 

[JRKH]

tonyrey wrote,

The more difficult it is to disprove because the person making the absurd hypothesis just won’t listen to reason?
If that’s what you meant I support it one hundred percent.
This is the most ridiculous thread yet.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion…

But I agree that there doesn’t seem to be much listening going on.

Peace
James

 

[angelic06]

As a man, I find the OP’s original post insulting and unsubstantiated by facts of the Holy Catholic Faith which he claims to profess. He is also conceited (he claims several times that he is able to love the Lord, albeit imperfectly, but does not say how he is able to do it and not the rest of us men). I would like the opportunity to give this man a one star rating but unfortunately the feature works only for whole threads and not users.

 

[angelic06]

If anyone is interested, I reported this rather bizarre thread and its OP to the moderators though I doubt anything will be done, because no matter how bizarre many of us find the OP’s notions, I can’t find really any CAF rule to fault him with. Nevertheless, it is good to get something off one’s chest, as the saying goes.

 

[angelic06]

I am quite sure most of you will be pleased to know that I gave this thread one star (“terrible”). This is a not a judgement on those of you who have tried to reason without success with the OP, but rather a statement of displeasure on the OP’s rather tiresome claims.

 

[Ben_Quincy]

Thread is going in circles. Closed.