Men must masturbate?

[mlchance]

With slight editing:

1. Do men really need to masturbate?
2. What will happen if you dont.

1. No.
2. Nothing bad.

Everything you read to the contrary is just a self-serving rationalization.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[setter]

So if someone for example is a good catholic in all areas except that of the mortal sin of masturbation, they’ll still go to hell if not confessed? Even if they do all kinds of work for the church and parish life and lead good moral lives (apart from the masturbation obviously)

A little harsh, no? If this is the case why not turn into some axe-wielding mass murder and still end up in hell? And throw in some other sins too, why not?

All sins who object is *grave matter *have the potential to cut one off from the soul saving grace needed to exists in heaven, masturbation included.

**2396 **Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices. (CCC)

1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: “Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent.” (CCC)

 

[buffalo]

[2352](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/2352.htm’) By *masturbation *is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action."138 “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."139
To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.

 

[DeltaForce]

Thanks I do understand this topic but I don’t see how one kind of mortal sin can outweigh all other things in one’s life and thus send a soul to hell.

So basically if one is guilty of a mortal sin and can not find it in their hearts to confess, they may as well stop going to Mass and helping out etc? Is that really what God is trying to say through the Church? It just doesn’t make sense…

 

[fix]

Thanks I do understand this topic but I don’t see how one kind of mortal sin can outweigh all other things in one’s life and thus send a soul to hell.

So basically if one is guilty of a mortal sin and can not find it in their hearts to confess, they may as well stop going to Mass and helping out etc? Is that really what God is trying to say through the Church? It just doesn’t make sense…

One in mortal sin should not stop going to mass. One in mortal sin has lost sanctifying grace but may still respond to other grace God sends to urge him to repent and seek confession.

Yes, mortal sin is deadly serious.

 

[Black_Jaque]

So if someone for example is a good catholic in all areas except that of the mortal sin of masturbation, they’ll still go to hell if not confessed? Even if they do all kinds of work for the church and parish life and lead good moral lives (apart from the masturbation obviously)

Only a truly arrogant soul would stand in front of his Maker and insist they deserve Heaven because of all the good they did.

In order to get eternal life, you must be perfect. In order to be perfect you must be willing to dump your sins. If you’re not willing to drop the habit - you can’t get eternal life. That’s perhaps a more accurate way of understanding the nature of one mortal sin.

Besides, your hypothetical situation is totally unrealistic. I highly doubt a person exists that is totally sinless in every other aspect, yet has this as his one and only mortal sin.

 

[mercygate]

Thanks I do understand this topic but I don’t see how one kind of mortal sin can outweigh all other things in one’s life and thus send a soul to hell.

So basically if one is guilty of a mortal sin and can not find it in their hearts to confess, they may as well stop going to Mass and helping out etc? Is that really what God is trying to say through the Church? It just doesn’t make sense…

The definition of a mortal sin is a sin that CAN, indeed, outweigh all other things.

Just confess it! Be a man (or woman), for Pete’s sake.

Do not stop going to Mass or helping out. DO refrain from receiving the Eucharist until you have been to confession. If you are an altar server, a reader, or an extraordinary minster of Holy Communion, you must confess before you ascend the altar.

 

[Amateur_Soul]

For men who think they need to masturbate, they should try to stop looking at porno and then they would be surprised how much that so-called need will fall away.

 

[setter]

In order to get eternal life, you must be perfect.

Acutally, one must have sanctifying grace to merit existance in heaven. However, as Catholics, we realize that often, not all is perfect upon death, even though the sanctifying grace is there to merit heaven. This is what purgatory does – removing all imperfections so as one may fully enter into heaven.

 

[Black_Jaque]

Acutally, one must have sanctifying grace to merit existance in heaven. However, as Catholics, we realize that often, not all is perfect upon death, even though the sanctifying grace is there to merit heaven. This is what purgatory does – removing all imperfections so as one may fully enter into heaven.

Setter, I don’t disagree. My aim was to cut-to-the-quick and illustrate a different way of thinking.

Upon graduating purgatory, one is perfect. You will not even get as far as purgatory if you refuse to let go all mortal sins.

 

[DeltaForce]

Only a truly arrogant soul would stand in front of his Maker and insist they deserve Heaven because of all the good they did.

In order to get eternal life, you must be perfect. In order to be perfect you must be willing to dump your sins. If you’re not willing to drop the habit - you can’t get eternal life. That’s perhaps a more accurate way of understanding the nature of one mortal sin.

Besides, your hypothetical situation is totally unrealistic. I highly doubt a person exists that is totally sinless in every other aspect, yet has this as his one and only mortal sin.

Well I’d like to point out that this is something I’m just thinking of, maybe it is unrealistic but still, to me it seems odd that someone who is guilty of one mortal sin (and yes, menial sins also like others), will go to hell, purely becuase they are aware of it (full knowledge needed for mortal sin).

What about people who go off to clubs each night and indulge in all kinds of filth? Is it ok for them because they aren’t fully aware?

And the comment about being perfect, don’t I remember reading that Our Lady is the only one human being perfect to carry Our Lord?

Please don’t think I’m bashing you, I’m not - I want to understand these things so badly but just can’t reason it to myself

 

[buffalo]

Thanks I do understand this topic but I don’t see how one kind of mortal sin can outweigh all other things in one’s life and thus send a soul to hell.

So basically if one is guilty of a mortal sin and can not find it in their hearts to confess, they may as well stop going to Mass and helping out etc? Is that really what God is trying to say through the Church? It just doesn’t make sense…

A mortal sin is spiritual death.

 

[Black_Jaque]

DeltaForce,

No offense taken.

Awareness is only one of the criteria for culpability of mortal sin. “Consent of the will” is another.

Some sins become habituated. I’ll use taking the Lord’s name in vain as an example. We know it is a grave sin. We have control over what we utter. Yet, some of us develop a habit of saying, “God!” or “God dammit!”.

Say you develop this habit during your “young and foolish” days. Later, you wise up. Now you no longer want to say such things, but you find that every now and then, it comes out of your mouth, almost beyond your control.

There is some mitigation of the consent of will. You don’t willingly curse, it’s habit. You are not culpable of mortal sin each and every time you utter such a phrase. However, you are aware that you have this habit and you are capable of taking steps to stop the habit. So long as you are engaged in the process of stopping the habit each slip-of-the-tongue is more a venial sin.

Masturbation can be habit-forming.

As for the people engaged in impurity at nightclubs - their culpability depends on their awareness, yes. But before they get into heaven it WILL be brought to their attention, and they WILL have to decide whether to hang on to the sin or drop it.

It’s a lot like boarding an airplane. There’s a lot of things you can’t come on board with. If you are really, really attached to your hair gel no one is going to take it away from you. But you will have to make a choice to either leave it behind or stay behind with it, because the gel is not allowed on the plane. Most people try to bring stuff on board because they are totally ignorant that it is forbidden. When confronted, they easily make the choice to leave the hair gel behind because the gel is not worth the plane ticket. Some arrogant people will try to argue with the security personell that they are good people and should be allowed an exemption. Sorry, the gel stays behind. I can only imagine a very vain person so attached to their gel would choose to stay behind. They may be correct, the gel is truly hair gel and thus harmless, but their pride will cost them dearly.

If you think about it one way, it seems really silly that they won’t let you on an airplane with a bottle of hair gel. But it’s a fact. And it won’t make sense unless you think about it in the light of terrorism.

Masturbation is probably the same way for you. It seems harmless, like hair gel. But it’s a fact - it’s a grave sin and you must dump it before boarding the “seven-forty-heaven”. And when you see masturbation in the light of sacredness of human life and abortion you can make sense of it. In fact, if you want to stop abortion, stop masturbating! Sounds peculiar don’t it? It’s so hard to understand that I can barely grasp it myself, and it would be very difficult to explain it.

Actually there may be some other people who are “perfect”. I think St. John the Baptist may have been without original sin, and possibly Elisha or Elija or one of those OT guys. Not certain though.

Anyways when I state that you have to be perfect before you get into heaven I am referring to post-purgatory perfect. All the rest of us have our sins. I know I’ll do my time in purgatory for sure. But I also know that after purgatory I will be perfect. And I know that I won’t enter Heaven before purgatory. Therefore, we must be perfect before getting into heaven.

 

[Scottgun]

Please don’t think I’m bashing you, I’m not - I want to understand these things so badly but just can’t reason it to myself

The problem is that there is this tendency to ask, “what can I get away with and still get to Heaven?” When the answer comes back, “narrow is the gate” (meaning we can get away with nothing) we get indignant and think God is stacking the deck toward failure and this potentially slides us into rejecting Him utterly. Better to start with the question, “Does God love me?” Answer yes and the next question is, “Do I love Him?” If we do, we prove it through worship and we worship with our whole being including our bodies. Meaning that acting like a monkey by self-abusing isn’t love at all. Rather than looking at God as the guy with the divine sledgehammer behind His back waiting to slam us at the first major wrongdoing, we should look at God and ourselves as a love affair and act accordingly.

 

[Prometheum_x]

A loose way of describing the attitude behind mortal sin:

“God, I know you hate this sin and it is opposed to everything you stand for, but screw you, cause I want to do it anyway.”

When I put it like that to myself, it is a lot easier to understand why it is such a big deal.

And when we refuse to repent of that, we are saying to God: “God, I would rather hold on to my sin than love you.”

Is it any wonder that mortal sin is such an impediment to heaven?

 

[ben182]

A loose way of describing the attitude behind mortal sin:

“God, I know you hate this sin and it is opposed to everything you stand for, but screw you, cause I want to do it anyway.”

When I put it like that to myself, it is a lot easier to understand why it is such a big deal.

And when we refuse to repent of that, we are saying to God: “God, I would rather hold on to my sin than love you.”

Is it any wonder that mortal sin is such an impediment to heaven?

 

[wjp984]

You all act like it is a matter of 100% knowing God exists and that there is no devil. If God were to come down and prove to everyone he exists, and then explain that the sin of masterbation is extremely harmful for one’s soul and one better stop immediately, then you better believe everyone would stop. The problem is doubt and the devil’s power of temptation. It is not a screw you attitude. It is an I am only pretty darn sure that God exists but not 100% sure and since we all have to speculate on th mercy of God, we can think that God will forgive us for this sin and don’t worry about it. And even if it does not deal with the doubting of God, it deals with the doubting of the sinfullness of masterbation since we are not 100% sure.

 

[mercygate]

You all act like it is a matter of 100% knowing God exists and that there is no devil. If God were to come down and prove to everyone he exists, and then explain that the sin of masterbation is extremely harmful for one’s soul and one better stop immediately, then you better believe everyone would stop.

No they wouldn’t. Jesus reminds us that we have “Abraham and the prophets” and nobody listened,.and even if somebody were to come back from the dead, they would still not listen. It’s about faith, not about your personal certainty. Un-faith is not a great platform on which to stand.

The problem is doubt and the devil’s power of temptation. It is not a screw you attitude.

Understood. But the devil is on a tether and as Paul reminds us, we will not be tempted beyond our powers.

It is an I am only pretty darn sure that God exists but not 100% sure and since we all have to speculate on th mercy of God, we can think that God will forgive us for this sin and don’t worry about it.

Does masturbation make me more human? Does it make me a better man? Does masturbation strengthen my heart?

And even if it does not deal with the doubting of God, it deals with the doubting of the sinfullness of masterbation since we are not 100% sure.

Yes. We are 100% sure that this sin saps the heart’s strength – even from a perfectly earth-bound perspective. Counsel you may have received to the contrary may have been given you because your priest has recognized a pastoral condition we do not see. Taking this sin in the light of a pure relationship with God, with our spouse, or a future spouse, the objective condition is that masturbation profoundly distorts the big plan.

It is one thing to fall into this sin through weakness or habit. It is another thing altogether to tell oneself that it does not matter. The original sin is to believe evil to be good – and vice versa.

 

[DeltaForce]

But who would think evil to be good?

If someone masturbates because of habit as opposed to willingly wanting to sin against God, is that any less serious, would you say?

Also I know this is off topic but I’m really failing to get the big picture - why did God bother to put us here on Earth and why do we have the devil to tempt us? Why would he want to create souls (if create is the right word ) knowing that some would end up in Hell? The big question is WHY

 

[mercygate]

But who would think evil to be good?

Many people think masturbation, contraception, sterilization, abortion and euthanasia are good.

If someone masturbates because of habit as opposed to willingly wanting to sin against God, is that any less serious, would you say?

See above. The sin, taken in itself, is no less serious. If one has an ingrained habit, weakness of will, immaturity, depression, or other contributing factors, then the guilt imputed to the person may be mitigated. The subjective culpability may be less.

Also I know this is off topic but I’m really failing to get the big picture - why did God bother to put us here on Earth and why do we have the devil to tempt us? Why would he want to create souls (if create is the right word ) knowing that some would end up in Hell? The big question is WHY

Yes, this is another topic. Asking it here indicates a desire to blame God because this is a difficult behavior to deal with. Don’t give the devil too much credit. We can get into plenty of trouble without any assistance from Old Scratch!