Men Only - Effeminate Church Decor?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Lux_et_veritas
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Please stay on thread subject; those wishing to discuss other topics should feel free to initiate a thread in the appropriate forum.
 
40.png
Isidore_AK:
Thats Mary?!? I always thought it was a statue of a Romulan… :eek:
Click to expand...
Okay, I’m sorry, but that just cannot be Our Blessed Mother now that I’ve looked at it again. Is someone SURE that’s who it’s supposed to be???
 
I love when I go out on the city bus in my cassock and guys say, nice dress dude.
or when I wear my zuchetto and people say, Shalom.

Oy Gevalt!
 
40.png
Elzee:
Okay, I’m sorry, but that just cannot be Our Blessed Mother now that I’ve looked at it again. Is someone SURE that’s who it’s supposed to be???
Click to expand...
Thats what the Cathedral’s website says…it explains what each feature of the statue is supposed to represent…scary stuff :eew:
 
40.png
Isidore_AK:
Thats what the Cathedral’s website says…it explains what each feature of the statue is supposed to represent…scary stuff :eew:
Click to expand...
For those who are concerned about things being too “effeminate” than this version of Mary ought to be perfect!

While Westerners may not like this version of Mary it is fitting for the culture served by this church. Mary is the mother of us all and be she portrayed as Asian, or any other race or nationality it is just as appropriate as the typical blonde-haired, blue-eyed American women. I have always liked Our Lady of Guadalupe because that is probably the closest to how the Blessed Mother really looked.
 
George Waters:
For those who are concerned about things being too “effeminate” than this version of Mary ought to be perfect!

While Westerners may not like this version of Mary it is fitting for the culture served by this church. Mary is the mother of us all and be she portrayed as Asian, or any other race or nationality it is just as appropriate as the typical blonde-haired, blue-eyed American women. I have always liked Our Lady of Guadalupe because that is probably the closest to how the Blessed Mother really looked.
Click to expand...
I’ve seen lots of statues and artwork of the Blessed Mother and most look amazingly similar, even if one is slightly more oriental or hispanic or caucasian in appearance, or whether she has black, red, or blond hair. But that statue for me, is offensive because of what I see it representing - girl power and feminism. The blessed mother was humble, and that depiction of her is anything but humble - imho.

You are right though, I don’t think it is effeminate at all. Feminist yeah; effeminate, no.
 
I agree about the need for sensitivity to the culture which is served by the LA Cathedral.

Is there a large Romulan population there? :rolleyes:
 
40.png
Lux_et_veritas:
I’ve seen lots of statues and artwork of the Blessed Mother and most look amazingly similar, even if one is slightly more oriental or hispanic or caucasian in appearance, or whether she has black, red, or blond hair. But that statue for me, is offensive because of what I see it representing - girl power and feminism. The blessed mother was humble, and that depiction of her is anything but humble - imho.

You are right though, I don’t think it is effeminate at all. Feminist yeah; effeminate, no.
Click to expand...
Almost sounds like the statue is of St Joan of Arc.
 
40.png
tjmiller:
I agree about the need for sensitivity to the culture which is served by the LA Cathedral.

Is there a large Romulan population there? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
GOOD ONE !!
 
40.png
FrCorey:
Almost sounds like the statue is of St Joan of Arc.
Click to expand...
Funny you should mention that. I was going to ask if that was St. Joan. The only thing is that she is missing the shield and sword.
 
:confused: lol that’s ludicrous! Men/women missing Mass just because their socially conditioned outer standards do not correspond with the decor in a church???Shows how much they know what Mass is about! :eek:
 
Now, now, everyone - let’s give the poor LA sculptor the benefit of the doubt. :tsktsk:

Perhaps he or she has a hearing handicap - er, make that challenge - no, differently enabled…

When asked to do a statue of our Lady for a Roman Catholic Church, perhaps he heard, “Romulan” Catholic Church!
 
ALL:

Please please continue any further discussion on this statue :rolleyes: of the Blessed Mother in to this brand new thread I created addressing controversial art and architecture in the Catholic Church. It is in the Water Cooler.

If any moderator is so inclined, maybe the last string of posts related to this statue could be carried over to this thread (more out of concern that people will continue to respond to posts made on the subject).

Thank you for your cooperation. 😃
 
Alison said:
:confused: lol that’s ludicrous! Men/women missing Mass just because their socially conditioned outer standards do not correspond with the decor in a church???Shows how much they know what Mass is about! :eek:
Click to expand...

Not really.

There are a lot of “cultural Catholics”… not catechized beyond high school or beyond Confirmation. Totally indifferent about Mass attendance. When they attend, they learn some stuff by “osmosis” and they get some grace. But they feel uncomfortable about receiving Holy Communion owing to sin or some other issue. And other things may make them feel uncomfortable as well. You see them clustered near the back of the church mostly.

But if their discomfort level gets too high, for whatever reason, then they just stay in bed. I am convinced that very few people know what the Mass is about. It has never been explained to them, in a methodical sort of way, without all the clergy-talk.

One priest gave a hilarious sermon one Sunday about how they had had a near-disaster with early leavers nearly colliding with the later arrivers.

Someone posted a thing about ushers being forbidden to force people to receive. Well, the intimidation factor must be pretty strong, because one day after the last Sunday Mass, I was asked to help collect some special programs that were scattered about in the pews. At one point, I found, under a program, a Consecrated Host. I looked around and there was no one else in the Church… I didn’t want to leave the Host there while I went for a priest… so I consumed it myself. Someone felt seriously constrained to go and receive Holy Communion, but was too inhibited to consume the Host.
 
Do you really believe that the people who own guns actually need them for protection? Its saying, “we need guns to protect us from people who have guns”. Its a ridiculous argument and does not apply to the situation in the US.
Click to expand...
Huh? Maybe I am misinterpreting you but what you have said is ridiculous. We don’t need guns to protect ourselves from other upstanding gun owerns, rather, miscreants who may do us serious bodily harm, or do likewise to our family, friends, or even strangers.

However, that being said, we do not “need” any reason to own guns. I can own guns if I please, thank you very much. They are morally neutral-just like any inanimate object.
 
40.png
Marauder:
The color scheme is just all wrong. Should use team colors not that purple and green. Or do they only use purple in my state because of the Ravens.

By the way I’m just kidding if you couldn’t figure it out.
Click to expand...
My husband suggests that we decorate in the orange and black- the SF Giants!
 
Well, we have a very fine shade of pink on one of the walls in our church, and now I think about it, that must be what is driving all the young boys out of the church… 😃 😛
 
40.png
Libero:
Well, we have a very fine shade of pink on one of the walls in our church, and now I think about it, that must be what is driving all the young boys out of the church… 😃 😛
Click to expand...
Actually you would be surprised. I feel and would hope that I have a firm sense of the substantial nature of the Church and its objective truth. However, I went to mass yesterday at a parish that had “mood lighting” and a projector stating the words of hymns and responses for the people. These things and the general decor of the church made me never want to come back - it was too “sleep-over” atmosphere and not focused on the awe inspiring dignity of the Holy Mass. There were many other problems but this was enough to make me feel very uncomfortable.
 
40.png
Lux_et_veritas:
I think a point may have been hit on gothic appearance though, if some would view that as less effeminate, unless there is a way to dress it up to make it this way.

Maybe it is more cultural than physical.

I knew this would be a difficult thread as I know most men do not analyze things like this.

:rotfl:
Click to expand...
A agree Lux that this is a difficult thread. Men in general don’t analyse these things but subconsciously they note them as being uncongenial. Because they are not in the habit of verbalising or analyzing why they feel a certain way most won’t be able to answer your question yet the feeling is certainly there. I find myself often glancing around a modern or a weckovated old church and feeling I don’t belong here and yet I am in general fond of the modern minimalist approach in my home setting. Why?

I think the comment about Gothic was a good start. Gothic architecture was a very masculine architecture. It was triumphalist, it dominated its surroundings, it proclaimed strength. My hobby is collecting and publishing photos of Catholic churches in Australia. Compare for instance the church at Scone www.cathchurch.net/nsw/parish/Scone.htm with its massive tower and high nave and the one at Dunedoo www.cathchurch.net/nsw/parish/Dunedoo.htm with its low profile and slim unthreatening spire. Which speaks most to you as a person about the place of faith in a society.

On interiors, I think my wife said it all when she saw the picture of the interior of Cardiff www.cathchurch.net/nsw/parish/Cardiff.htm set up for Pentecost Sunday (yes those are bunches of balloons) when she said it is all about “pretty pretty”. Compare this with the unreconstructed sanctuary at Wellington www.cathchurch.net/nsw/parish/Wellington.htm or the stark simplicity of Mayfield www.cathchurch.net/nsw/parish/Mayfield.htm. I could go on with mentions of New Age imagery (especially earthenware pots - what is it about earthenware that so appeals to the modern liturgist’s mentality) and don’t even get me started on the childish (and I mean childish - they look like they were knocked togather by kindergarten art classes) banners and the fake imagery so popular amongst liturgical committees (a good example are the Easter photos from the Diocese of Bathurst with the cloth flowing from the cross symbolising the gifts of the spirit (www.cathchurch.net/nsw/parish/Lithgow.htm).

As you say liturgical committees are these days often dominated by women, generally older women, and often nuns, who have the free time to get on these committees. Their approach to church decor is often driven by a “party mentality” of dressing up the church as though it was little johhnies birthday or the annual get together of the bridge club. None of this of course renders the core of the mass invalid or illicit so it is not an abuse per se but it sets a tone that is subconsciously conveyed to men who instinctively dislike “frilly things” and who revolt at “Queer Eye for the Straight Guy” and who consequently feel uncomfortable in the church.

When I was studying church architecture many years ago it was said that Gothic was the architecture that tried to dematerialise the material and Baroque which tried to materialise the immaterial. Todays architecture seems to be more about significating the trivial and trivialising the significant. Whether this can be called “feminine” or not (depending on the definition of feminine you use) it is certainly “effeminite” in the original meaning of the word and that is a turn off for most men even if they can’t articulate why. We have lost that sense of the Church Militant and replaced it with the Church Humiliated.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top