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Xantippe
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Yeah. This model appeals most to the dads who can’t be trusted with that kind of power over their kids.
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Xantippe
Guest
Well, the whole debt-free, tattoo-free virgin thing is so unnuanced. Debts come in smaller and larger versions and different kinds (for example, a mortgage is a debt), tattoos come in different quantities and sizes, and there’s a whole spectrum of degrees of sexual experience, as well as quite a number of ways to not be a virgin but not be culpable in any way.
Also, Lori Alexander has a huge history of being anti-college for young women, without troubling herself as to how they are supposed to support themselves as single women. She’s also blind to the demographics of marriage in the US, which are that a) college-educated women are more likely to get married and less likely to have children out of wedlock and b) college-educated women are less likely to divorce. According to her model, young women are supposed to stay at home, not work outside the home, somehow find some way to work at home, and engage in various time-killing activities at home. How they are supposed to find a husband without going to college or working outside the home is anybody’s guess…Also, lots of luck if your parents don’t want you at home after 18.
Also, she pushes a model that she never used with her children.
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Xantippe
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If Lori Alexander were right about men preferring debt free virgins without tattoos, there would be way more debt free virgins without tattoos. The fact is that male enthusiasm for female virginity is often more theoretical than practical.
(And in fact, Lori Alexander did a follow up post specifying that “godly” men prefer debt free virgins without tattoos.)
(And in fact, Lori Alexander did a follow up post specifying that “godly” men prefer debt free virgins without tattoos.)
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His_helpmeet
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Exactly. Not to mention, what does she think will happen if Mr. Wonderful dies or becomes unable to work due to illness or injury? Or if he turns out sadly to be Mr. Not-So-Wonderful and leaves his wife and kids? With no education or work experience, good luck for that poor mother to get a job in many markets.
My parents raised us pretty conservatively but ALWAYS encouraged my sister and me to get an education. Our mom was a SAHM but has a master’s in political science. I am married to a wonderful man who is autistic and has limited job prospects. I have a master’s in nursing and teach nursing as a career. I earn a good salary. He works as a night security guard. If we are able to have more children, our intent is for him to just go to working casual. (I get about 12 weeks paid holiday a year so there would be many occasions when he could work.) It’s never caused a problem in our marriage.
My parents raised us pretty conservatively but ALWAYS encouraged my sister and me to get an education. Our mom was a SAHM but has a master’s in political science. I am married to a wonderful man who is autistic and has limited job prospects. I have a master’s in nursing and teach nursing as a career. I earn a good salary. He works as a night security guard. If we are able to have more children, our intent is for him to just go to working casual. (I get about 12 weeks paid holiday a year so there would be many occasions when he could work.) It’s never caused a problem in our marriage.
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ATraveller
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Pretty sure godly men prefer godly women.
Does that follow up post and the original count as womansplaining? I think it does.
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Xantippe
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Now that you mention it, it totally does.
Why not go straight to the horse’s mouth?
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Xantippe
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The “godly man” thing is also pretty close to a “no true Scotsman” argument.
If you say, “I think contemporary American men prefer to marry college educated women even with debt over non-college women” and lay out the statistics demonstrating that, then what you get back is probably going to be, “but no godly man would do that.”
Or if I say, “I see a lot of young men on campus with religious tattoos and I see religious homeschooling moms with tattoos,” then the answer is going to be, “But no godly people would do that.”
Once the person gets to define what is and isn’t “godly,” they’re going to win the argument each and every time.
The thing is, people have preferences about a lot of things. For example, before I met my future husband, he was hankering to meet a female doctoral student in his field so they could collaborate together. Sadly, I was not in his field, so that did not happen, but I’m fairly sure that (everything being equal) he would have preferred a woman like that with student loan debt over a woman with no higher education and no student loans.
Different people like different things. Which is good, because otherwise, we’d all want to marry the same person…
If you say, “I think contemporary American men prefer to marry college educated women even with debt over non-college women” and lay out the statistics demonstrating that, then what you get back is probably going to be, “but no godly man would do that.”
Or if I say, “I see a lot of young men on campus with religious tattoos and I see religious homeschooling moms with tattoos,” then the answer is going to be, “But no godly people would do that.”
Once the person gets to define what is and isn’t “godly,” they’re going to win the argument each and every time.
The thing is, people have preferences about a lot of things. For example, before I met my future husband, he was hankering to meet a female doctoral student in his field so they could collaborate together. Sadly, I was not in his field, so that did not happen, but I’m fairly sure that (everything being equal) he would have preferred a woman like that with student loan debt over a woman with no higher education and no student loans.
Different people like different things. Which is good, because otherwise, we’d all want to marry the same person…
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Xantippe
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Another issue is that while it’s possible to have a lot of different preferences (Gaelic-speaking debt-free tattoo-free Catholic violin virtuoso virgin who makes amazing enchiladas), every single additional requirement shrinks the pool. In fact, it’s possible to throw in so many requirements that the person literally does not exist on this planet.
So, we can prefer whatever we want, and we can have whatever standards we want, but that doesn’t force the desired person to exist. And even if they do exist, we can’t make them love us if they don’t want to.
Another problem I have with lists is that people tend to forget the really important stuff, like: flexible, kind, forgiving, generous, practical, etc.
So, we can prefer whatever we want, and we can have whatever standards we want, but that doesn’t force the desired person to exist. And even if they do exist, we can’t make them love us if they don’t want to.
Another problem I have with lists is that people tend to forget the really important stuff, like: flexible, kind, forgiving, generous, practical, etc.
Yeah. I mean my only requirements were practicing Catholic, interested in developing her faith, and wanted to stay at home when we had kids.
And she had to be good fun too.
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Sarcelle
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My standard is to try to avoid psychopaths and sociopaths, those without a working conscience.
They’re bad news.
They’re bad news.
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DisorientingSneeze
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Enchiladas can be taught. Don’t loose hope single people! Love and enchiladas are attainable.
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pensmama87
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DisorientingSneeze
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We already have an in-house poet. You’ll meet them soon enough if you haven’t.
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RCIAGraduate
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Why not both? They do seem to reinforce each other.
I understand this isn’t the main topic so please forgive me other posters including OP for hijacking right now but I really like the whole idea of multi-generational households (disclaimer: grew up and still live in such a home), if the family dynamic is stable, healthy and comfortable it does seem like a wonderful way for young adults to start out by using the time to save up but also help out (theoretically, of course). Again, this probably only works for special families but it does seem practical as well as an opportunity to a supportive model.
I understand this isn’t the main topic so please forgive me other posters including OP for hijacking right now but I really like the whole idea of multi-generational households (disclaimer: grew up and still live in such a home), if the family dynamic is stable, healthy and comfortable it does seem like a wonderful way for young adults to start out by using the time to save up but also help out (theoretically, of course). Again, this probably only works for special families but it does seem practical as well as an opportunity to a supportive model.
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Xantippe
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Learning to live with as a married couple can be hard, and it’s often preferable to be able to have disagreements with lots of privacy, rather than having the older generation jump in to “help.”
But it is possible to do OK. My sis, for example, married a European guy, they had a baby while they were still in college and they lived successfully with his parents for a number of years. But there were certain built-in safeguards–the in-laws are very generous, sensible people, and sis and her family got the entire downstairs and the in-laws paid for a small second kitchen to be put in downstairs. Not having a kitchen of one’s own would be really HARD for many women.
But it is possible to do OK. My sis, for example, married a European guy, they had a baby while they were still in college and they lived successfully with his parents for a number of years. But there were certain built-in safeguards–the in-laws are very generous, sensible people, and sis and her family got the entire downstairs and the in-laws paid for a small second kitchen to be put in downstairs. Not having a kitchen of one’s own would be really HARD for many women.
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alice24
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I can only second this. It´s about having enough space and time to explore how living as a family should and will be. It helps to not simply adapt other people´s lifestyle, even if it´s an healthy and happy life. I was surprised how many new sides I explored on me regarding what I need, want and like since I´m married and hours away from the next “marriage influencer”
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Sarcelle
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My extended family lived in separate houses but still quite close to each other.
This way privacy is a given but familial support is just a block away.
This way privacy is a given but familial support is just a block away.
I have to live under the roof a a relative, for some years as a married woman, and even a mother.
And I am also an European.
No separate kitchen. No separate floors. We just invested the empty bedrooms of the big houses for staying and put our personal stuff.
It was not easy, not a very happy time, but can be done, to save money in order to be able to installed one day in our own home. Sometimes we have to think carefully. It can be economically the better solution versus leasing to be able to afford one day to buy a housing.
And I am also an European.
No separate kitchen. No separate floors. We just invested the empty bedrooms of the big houses for staying and put our personal stuff.
It was not easy, not a very happy time, but can be done, to save money in order to be able to installed one day in our own home. Sometimes we have to think carefully. It can be economically the better solution versus leasing to be able to afford one day to buy a housing.
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DarkLight
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That actually reminds me of one of my objections to the “debt-free” folk.
Most debt-free teachers (Dave Ramsey included) are aiming at the middle class who can largely pay for both their own needs and maybe a few extras with what they’re making. For young folk, it tends to presume that the person has family that’s going to help them get launched in life. It’s generally based around the assumption that the family has enough money to cover everything and save up some, they just need to direct that money properly.
For young folk from poor families who can’t afford to spend a lot of money on an over-18 kid, or those with families that aren’t necessarily aiming in a way conducive to the success of a young adult, avoiding debt can be a trap. It may be much more financially viable to take out a few loans and get started at a good job, over trying to scrape together money on the sort of jobs you can get as an 18 year old with just a high school diploma. The latter is often a good recipe for debt anyway, as there’s often not much emergency cushion for when something goes wrong.
Most debt-free teachers (Dave Ramsey included) are aiming at the middle class who can largely pay for both their own needs and maybe a few extras with what they’re making. For young folk, it tends to presume that the person has family that’s going to help them get launched in life. It’s generally based around the assumption that the family has enough money to cover everything and save up some, they just need to direct that money properly.
For young folk from poor families who can’t afford to spend a lot of money on an over-18 kid, or those with families that aren’t necessarily aiming in a way conducive to the success of a young adult, avoiding debt can be a trap. It may be much more financially viable to take out a few loans and get started at a good job, over trying to scrape together money on the sort of jobs you can get as an 18 year old with just a high school diploma. The latter is often a good recipe for debt anyway, as there’s often not much emergency cushion for when something goes wrong.
I agree. I mean, there’s debt and theres debt. I have a reasonably good job but in order to buy a car for example, I generally get a loan from the Credit Union. If your debt is well managed and under control then I don’t see the problem. The problem is the debt that results from poor money management and frivilous spending.
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