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Miguel2
Guest
Does this mean that it’s a sin for a man to have long hair?
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ColoradoCatholic
Guest
Consider that Jesus had long hair…
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annad347
Guest
I don’t the passage has nothing to do with long hair on men but about women who take more pride in their hair then they do in serving the Lord.
I think that’s why some women cover their heads when they are praying in church… but funny, now, kind of technically a woman can also take pride in the type of covering they have as they do their hair.
I think that’s why some women cover their heads when they are praying in church… but funny, now, kind of technically a woman can also take pride in the type of covering they have as they do their hair.
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OurLadyofSorrows
Guest
Jesus had traditional Jewish hair and beard styling.
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1Lord1Faith
Guest
He’s bringing up a cultural thing. But he sometimes conflates cultural stuff with ‘natural’ stuff. I too would like to know exactly what he means by “nature”. It seems like he had something specific in mind.
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1ke
Guest
No it doesn’t mean that at all.
po18guy
Well-known member
Much of what Saint Paul wrote in 1 and 2 Corinthians was written to address problems specific to that Church. However, some of his teaching had much broader application (abuses of the Eucharist, etc.).
It is thought that Jesus may have been a Nazirite, a sect which, for the time period of a man’s consecration, did not cut his hair. As old as I am, I was not there, so cannot confirm this.
It is thought that Jesus may have been a Nazirite, a sect which, for the time period of a man’s consecration, did not cut his hair. As old as I am, I was not there, so cannot confirm this.
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puer.dei
Guest
We don’t know that.
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do_justly_love_mercy
Guest
Hairstyles are determined by culture. I’ve seen plenty of Eastern Orthodox clergy and monks who have long hair. The former archbishop of Canterbury, Rowan Williams, had longish hair.
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Gertabelle
Guest
I don’t see anything in the Catechism of the Catholic Church about this, so I’m guessing no, it is not a sin.
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AHelpingHand
Guest
Well, the Divine Mercy picture shows Jesus with relatively long hair.
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Gab123
Guest
NO. It means not having long hair like women, which in those days wore their hair past their waist and even longer.
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otjm
Guest
There is also a line of thought that Jesus was either had a relationship with the Essens or close contact with them.
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adamhovey1988
Guest
I’m not going to explain why the verse says that, but I would like to point out that in the ancient world, my shoulder length hair would not be considered long.
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dochawk
Guest
It would have been well past “peculiar” for a first century Jewish man to not have hair that would be “long” by today’s standards.
Whereas what we call “long hair” on women today would have been scandalously short . . .
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White_Tree
Guest
That chapter in 1 Corinthians is symbolic, and the “man” and “woman” he talks about in that passage should be understood as the soul and the body, respectively.
Evagrios the Solitary explains this in his text “On Prayer”:
So in the text, Evagrios’s usage of the word “man” is physical; it means “any person.” St. Paul’s usage of the terms is symbolic, and St. Paul explains the symbols, just in case we’re having a hard time:
So by saying women must cover their heads when they pray, Paul is saying that we must all (male and female) cover our physical nature. That is, don’t go to God praying about petty material things. But approach God with spiritual things (that is, have your spiritual side uncovered).
The statements about hair length that you are mentioning are given in the context of those earlier statements about the head coverings. Paul is pointing out that the culture has a custom that reflects this symbolic truth about how we should approach God, and we should learn a spiritual truth from that custom.
It has nothing to do with whether you are physically male or female, and nothing to do with physical head coverings or hair length. This is a passage about prayer and the way that we approach God.
Evagrios the Solitary explains this in his text “On Prayer”:
Let’s take a moment to analyze that. Evagrios is saying that a man should not pray with his head bare, and he equates that to St. Paul who specifically says that men should pray with their heads bare (1 Cor 11:4) and women should pray with their heads covered (1 Cor 11:5).
So in the text, Evagrios’s usage of the word “man” is physical; it means “any person.” St. Paul’s usage of the terms is symbolic, and St. Paul explains the symbols, just in case we’re having a hard time:
So in the context of that passage, “man” represents the spiritual side of each one of us, and “woman” represents the physical side. This is because the physical body, whether male or female, is always receptive (or feminine) because it receives the influences from the spiritual world. The “driver” of the physical body is the soul, therefore it is (symbolically) masculine, or projective, because it is projecting its influence into the receptive (symbolically feminine) physical body.
So by saying women must cover their heads when they pray, Paul is saying that we must all (male and female) cover our physical nature. That is, don’t go to God praying about petty material things. But approach God with spiritual things (that is, have your spiritual side uncovered).
The statements about hair length that you are mentioning are given in the context of those earlier statements about the head coverings. Paul is pointing out that the culture has a custom that reflects this symbolic truth about how we should approach God, and we should learn a spiritual truth from that custom.
It has nothing to do with whether you are physically male or female, and nothing to do with physical head coverings or hair length. This is a passage about prayer and the way that we approach God.
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EndTimes
Guest
long is relative… Depends what one means by long.
some women have what we’d label as: very long hair… much longer than depictions of Jesus.
There are women in some fundamentalist Christian sects that do not cut their hair at all, though they may trim the ends of it. The splinter LDS sects may do this as well. They incline towards very high hair styles, a bouffant of sorts in the front. My own grandmother (Southern Baptist) never cut her hair until she was in her fifties, though not for any religious reason I’m aware of.puer.dei:
It would have been well past “peculiar” for a first century Jewish man to not have hair that would be “long” by today’s standards.
Whereas what we call “long hair” on women today would have been scandalously short . . .
po18guy
Well-known member
Indeed. The Nazirite vow lasted a period of time. As to the Essenes, they had a corner (“quarter)” of Jerusalem, and that is where the upper room was located. Since the Essenes were essentially all male, “There, you will meet a man carrying a water jar” - in that culture, men did not carry the water, witness the woman at the well in Samaria in John 4 for but one example.
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Huiou_Theou
Guest
Paul’s referring to nature, so you might want to spend a little time pondering on why.
What is “long” and “short” ? Are your legs too long if they reach the ground, or is an elephants tusk too long to an elephant … if it can’t reach the peanut?
Long and Short refer to relative measurements. If you don’t know what the standard is, you’ll never be able to say whether or not it’s a disgcrace. (Dumbo: Look at that LOONG trunk and huge ears…) So, Paul’s answer seems to require you to look at nature and see why nature teaches long hair is disgraceful in the early years of christianity.
Some thoughts:
Bishops take their red ‘coverings’ off their heads in order to pray at Cathedrals. But they wear them (with mitre/croisure – however it’s spelled) during other parts of the mass as well.
One point that strikes me most about St. Paul’s comment is that the first worship, by Cain and Abel, included references to nature. eg: specifically, Cain’s offering of leaves or “un-processed” nature which was not acceptable before God.
I did a translation some years ago of that passage, and it seems that Cain also cheated and cut up birds (literally) wrongly and was reprimanded by God for it.
Later in the Torah/Law, priests were forbidden to cut up birds at all and instead had to wring their neck; apparently to prevent a repetition of a known bad act.
I think Paul is likely talking about something similar. eg: male priesthood and coverings have various ritual significance in pagan and Jewish worship. It would, perhaps, be a shame to worship as a pagan priest did, or a wicked son? The allusion to Eve, is implicit, in hair being given to a woman; so it automatically recalls her covering and the shame of Cain.
Long hair to an American is not the same as the idea would have been to ancient priests. I doubt hair down a man’s back would have been considered “long” in Jesus’ day. It might make a good pillow, but not much of a blanket, for someone sleeping outside.
What is “long” and “short” ? Are your legs too long if they reach the ground, or is an elephants tusk too long to an elephant … if it can’t reach the peanut?
Long and Short refer to relative measurements. If you don’t know what the standard is, you’ll never be able to say whether or not it’s a disgcrace. (Dumbo: Look at that LOONG trunk and huge ears…) So, Paul’s answer seems to require you to look at nature and see why nature teaches long hair is disgraceful in the early years of christianity.
Some thoughts:
Bishops take their red ‘coverings’ off their heads in order to pray at Cathedrals. But they wear them (with mitre/croisure – however it’s spelled) during other parts of the mass as well.
One point that strikes me most about St. Paul’s comment is that the first worship, by Cain and Abel, included references to nature. eg: specifically, Cain’s offering of leaves or “un-processed” nature which was not acceptable before God.
I did a translation some years ago of that passage, and it seems that Cain also cheated and cut up birds (literally) wrongly and was reprimanded by God for it.
Later in the Torah/Law, priests were forbidden to cut up birds at all and instead had to wring their neck; apparently to prevent a repetition of a known bad act.
I think Paul is likely talking about something similar. eg: male priesthood and coverings have various ritual significance in pagan and Jewish worship. It would, perhaps, be a shame to worship as a pagan priest did, or a wicked son? The allusion to Eve, is implicit, in hair being given to a woman; so it automatically recalls her covering and the shame of Cain.
Long hair to an American is not the same as the idea would have been to ancient priests. I doubt hair down a man’s back would have been considered “long” in Jesus’ day. It might make a good pillow, but not much of a blanket, for someone sleeping outside.
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