Men's Rights and the Catholic Church

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Male circumcision is not genital mutilation. I’m circumcised and happy to be so. It’s more hygienic if you ask me, in the sense that if need be it requires less maintenance in sweaty, humid conditions.

We also retain sexual sensation.

I don’t know much of anything about female genital mutilation but my understanding is that it’s not really the same as male circumcision.
 
U b happy. Good for you.

For far too many men tho, there is a sense of incompleteness. Not to mention the excruciatiang trauma (yes, there are nerves in a foreskin) that is inflicted on a baby. :eek:

Medically it is still debated as to the benefits. However it appears that those that advocate circumcision for the most part have a vested monetary interest. Just like Planned Parenthood today in regard to abortion.

Frankly, there are no benefits to circumcision that any good, practiced Hygiene care, which we teach all children, could not provide IMHO, and apparently in accordance with the link I provided some posts back.

There have been indeed many cases of death from infection from circumcision and also damage to the parts in proximty to the procedure.

See here: youtube.com/watch?v=fwQIxz_CMw8 for Rights Perspective.

See here: youtube.com/watch?v=Nk0zanvEbS0 for the link I mentioned.

From what I have read, it appears that males are now suing over this act perpetrated on them when an infant. And why ever not? Remember the Dr.s oath? First - do no harm?

I would assert that men should be able to make an informed choice on this ever so personal issue.

Circumcision can* indeed* be considered genital mutilation. Why ever not? Why not ‘bring the whole baby home’ - eh?

Food for thought.

Someone advocating for men for a change, regards…
Nim.
 
Yes. I would also add a fifth one that needs to be addressed immediately.

5 Paternity Fraud.

and a 6th one
  1. Circumcison - Genital mutilation.
The first cut truly is the deepest.
While I can certainly appreciate the emotional and financial damages done to men who have been victims of paternity fraud, it just seems to me that, like many other subjects that have been brought up on this thread, there is a counter-harm done to women concerning illegitimacy which seems to (in a sense) “balance out” the idea that this is a male-only issue.

Please allow me to explain, and feel free to disagree/debate: While there is no doubt that a man who has been required to provide for a child that is not his makes him a victim of female manipulation, are women not also victims when their male partners/husbands conceive children through extra-marital affairs? What happens when a woman who has been faithful to her man must suffer a loss of family income when he is unfaithful and fathers a child by another woman, who then claims child support from him? In these cases, the faithful wife’s income is reduced due to his infidelity. Both are wrong, but there seems to be the possibility of protection for the male against infidelity which is not granted to the female, and therefore it would appear to become a masculinist, in opposition to a feminist, issue. While I can sympathize with the men on this, I can also sympathize with women who are victims of male infidelity, and issues of illegitimacy need to take both genders into consideration. I can only envision that as more men fight to protect themselves from female promiscuity, more women will be requiring justice on their side. As it currently stands, there is protection already in place for men against this - DNA testing. Now, what are we going to do about all of these Casanovas who force their women to share their resources with others? (you can see a can of worms being opened up here:()

In regards to circumcision, there are a couple of reasons I would classify this into a *human *rights issues, and not a *men’s *rights issue: In the first place, it is not women who have pushed and encouraged circumcision upon men, whereas male-dominated societies have certainly enforced the custom of FGM against women. Circumcision absolutely *cannot *be laid at the feet of feminists, it was men themselves who adopted and promoted this practice.

Secondly, while a comparison between circumcision and FGM can be made on the grounds of mutiliation alone, the two are not entirely comparable when we take into consideration the motives and intentions behind them. I don’t mean to sound blase about it (in fact, I have recently begun in the past year or so to question the validity of the practice, whereas before I never gave it a second thought and would have emphatically defended it), but still I maintain that one is not “as bad” as the other (for lack of a better way to phrase it). Circumcision was never intended to rob a man of his climax in order to promote faithfulness toward his spouse. It was never an outright attack on male sexual pleasure, while FGM sought to rob women of their greatest source of pleasure for purely selfish reasons. So, while I would whole-heartedly support a parent’s decision not to circumcize, I don’t find it to be nearly as destructive to men as FGM is to women, and I deny the notion that this practice was somehow inflicted upon men by feminism, as opposed to medically-questionable advice.

Thirdly, men who are protesting circumcision will need to be prepared for accusations of anti-semitism if they attempt to change laws surrounding this (take a look at what happened in Germany recently). There is no possible way (legally speaking) to favor children’s rights on basis of religion - that is, if it’s considered child abuse, then it will be considered child abuse against all, religious tradition aside. I just don’t see this happening, realistically speaking (though men are certainly entitled to pursue this if it is important to them).🤷
 
Feminist/actress Sharon Stone- " The more famous and powerful I get the more power I have to hurt men."

Now then. Regarding circumcision.

Raise your hands if you want to be Sharon Stone’ s baby! ;):rolleyes::cool:
 
While I can certainly appreciate the emotional and financial damages done to men who have been victims of paternity fraud, it just seems to me that, like many other subjects that have been brought up on this thread, there is a counter-harm done to women concerning illegitimacy which seems to (in a sense) “balance out” the idea that this is a male-only issue.

Please allow me to explain, and feel free to disagree/debate: While there is no doubt that a man who has been required to provide for a child that is not his makes him a victim of female manipulation, are women not also victims when their male partners/husbands conceive children through extra-marital affairs? What happens when a woman who has been faithful to her man must suffer a loss of family income when he is unfaithful and fathers a child by another woman, who then claims child support from him? In these cases, the faithful wife’s income is reduced due to his infidelity. Both are wrong, but there seems to be the possibility of protection for the male against infidelity which is not granted to the female, and therefore it would appear to become a masculinist, in opposition to a feminist, issue. While I can sympathize with the men on this, I can also sympathize with women who are victims of male infidelity, and issues of illegitimacy need to take both genders into consideration. I can only envision that as more men fight to protect themselves from female promiscuity, more women will be requiring justice on their side. As it currently stands, there is protection already in place for men against this - DNA testing. Now, what are we going to do about all of these Casanovas who force their women to share their resources with others? (you can see a can of worms being opened up here:()

In regards to circumcision, there are a couple of reasons I would classify this into a *human *rights issues, and not a *men’s *rights issue: In the first place, it is not women who have pushed and encouraged circumcision upon men, whereas male-dominated societies have certainly enforced the custom of FGM against women. Circumcision absolutely *cannot *be laid at the feet of feminists, it was men themselves who adopted and promoted this practice.

Secondly, while a comparison between circumcision and FGM can be made on the grounds of mutiliation alone, the two are not entirely comparable when we take into consideration the motives and intentions behind them. I don’t mean to sound blase about it (in fact, I have recently begun in the past year or so to question the validity of the practice, whereas before I never gave it a second thought and would have emphatically defended it), but still I maintain that one is not “as bad” as the other (for lack of a better way to phrase it). Circumcision was never intended to rob a man of his climax in order to promote faithfulness toward his spouse. It was never an outright attack on male sexual pleasure, while FGM sought to rob women of their greatest source of pleasure for purely selfish reasons. So, while I would whole-heartedly support a parent’s decision not to circumcize, I don’t find it to be nearly as destructive to men as FGM is to women, and I deny the notion that this practice was somehow inflicted upon men by feminism, as opposed to medically-questionable advice.

Thirdly, men who are protesting circumcision will need to be prepared for accusations of anti-semitism if they attempt to change laws surrounding this (take a look at what happened in Germany recently). There is no possible way (legally speaking) to favor children’s rights on basis of religion - that is, if it’s considered child abuse, then it will be considered child abuse against all, religious tradition aside. I just don’t see this happening, realistically speaking (though men are certainly entitled to pursue this if it is important to them).🤷
Ok. Regarding paragraph one. Because women have been hurt- it does not follow that men must be hurt as well. Also. Because women have been hurt it does not follow that men do not feel pain when they are hurt. Paternity fraud is definitely a **men’s **issue. No male can ever effect paternity fraud on a female.

Paragraph two. Yes women have issues. No denying that. However the title of the Thread is 'Men’s Rights… " These men’s issues are no where nearly as publicly recognized as Female issues. They are no* less* real. One of the reasons for this, as you so adroitly highlight, is because the public, knee jerk reaction, is to Advocate for women’s issues :rolleyes: when the discussion is about Men’s issues. To it put simply- men have issues* as well* that have been ignored.
Feminists rail against Men’s rights groups as tho they have no right to discuss their feelings.:cool:

Also.
The DNA testing you of which you speak, at least in terms of defense against rape - is not available/admissable in all states!!!

Also The DNA tests are rendered moot and irrelevant as the courts continually rule that a man still has to pay for child support for a child that is not his!!! Even after he has been lied to for years!!!

Paragraph three. Yes the Jewish Religous observance ( and Muslim) question. Hmmmmmmmmm … shades of the HHS Mandate! :cool: I do not know how to handle such freedom of Religous** Practice** in regard to this issue, legally speaking.
That aside, the issue still needs to be examined.
 
That’s just sick.:mad:
*Tell *me about it, mate. I wonder. Abortion is often called a ‘blood sacrifice to evil’
I would not be surprised if some worshippers of the dark one would get pregnant for just that reason.

What about circumcision? Hmmmmm…
 
Here is a classic example that is rampaging thruogh countries world over in which men face in todays Society from women’s lies:

youtube.com/watch?v=R6Ieo4oJNnQ

This crime is horrific.

If a man does not have $150,000.00 he is** doomed. **

What Feminists on this forum wish to challenge the validity of men being ignored, shortchanged and discriminated against in **this **regard?
 
Ok. Regarding paragraph one. Because women have been hurt- it does not follow that men must be hurt as well. Also. Because women have been hurt it does not follow that men do not feel pain when they are hurt. Paternity fraud is definitely a **men’s **issue. No male can ever effect paternity fraud on a female.

Paragraph two. Yes women have issues. No denying that. However the title of the Thread is 'Men’s Rights… " These men’s issues are no where nearly as publicly recognized as Female issues. They are no* less* real. One of the reasons for this, as you so adroitly highlight, is because the public, knee jerk reaction, is to Advocate for women’s issues :rolleyes: when the discussion is about Men’s issues. To it put simply- men have issues* as well* that have been ignored.
Feminists rail against Men’s rights groups as tho they have no right to discuss their feelings.:cool:

Also. The DNA testing you of which you speak, at least in terms of defense against rape - is not available/admissable in all states!!!

Also The DNA tests are rendered moot and irrelevant as the courts continually rule that a man still has to pay for child support for a child that is not his!!! Even after he has been lied to for years!!!

Paragraph three. Yes the Jewish Religous observance ( and Muslim) question. Hmmmmmmmmm … shades of the HHS Mandate! :cool: I do not know how to handle such freedom of Religous** Practice** in regard to this issue, legally speaking.
That aside, the issue still needs to be examined.
I agree with Nim on this. I will add there is BIG difference between the HHS mandate and circumcision. In all honesty the government isn’t physically doing anything to the human body with HHS mandate. The mandate does not cause physical harm. It causes moral harm but that moral harm can be undone with the passage of an appropriate law. Circumcision however cannot be undone so easily and it is physically harming ones body. The child cannot protest it like Catholics can protest the mandate. Muslims and Jews comprise such a small population that I think the only way to change the practice is to simply inform them otherwise. Many Jews are converting or just simply just don’t practice. I am sure they could be won over. The real problem is the arrogant nurses and doctors that push circumcision. They should be challenged and kept in check.
 
Ok. Regarding paragraph one. Because women have been hurt- it does not follow that men must be hurt as well. Also. Because women have been hurt it does not follow that men do not feel pain when they are hurt. Paternity fraud is definitely a **men’s **issue. No male can ever effect paternity fraud on a female.

Paragraph two. Yes women have issues. No denying that. However the title of the Thread is 'Men’s Rights… " These men’s issues are no where nearly as publicly recognized as Female issues. They are no* less* real. One of the reasons for this, as you so adroitly highlight, is because the public, knee jerk reaction, is to Advocate for women’s issues :rolleyes: when the discussion is about Men’s issues. To it put simply- men have issues* as well* that have been ignored.
Feminists rail against Men’s rights groups as tho they have no right to discuss their feelings.:cool:
I agree absolutely. I certainly am sensitive to male emotions and am happy to focus exclusively on men in threads that discuss issues in which men and men only feel the brunt of discrimination, which is why I listed the four I find to be in accordance with this injustice on post #199. The only reason I brought in a parallel female perspective on the issues of paternity fraud and circumcision is because (aside from the fact that you included those two in your response to me) this thread originated in a way that framed men’s rights not as generic human rights (in which males just happen to comprise the majority of subjects), but as male rights in specific contrast and opposition to feminist rights which appear to garner favoritism and special privilege. In the words of the OP in post #1, men’s right are all about “balancing and keeping feminism in check”. On the issue of paternity/illegitimacy fraud, and others, I don’t honestly feel that men bear the brunt of anti-male discrimination, for there is equal discrimination toward women as well. Paternity fraud is all about infidelity, correct? The question is how do men suffer *more *from infidelity than women? They don’t – each gender suffers equally, and if they both suffer the same, there is no case of discrimination or imbalance against males in particular.

Or, as in the case of circumcision, this is not an issue in which women/feminists have somehow coerced the judicial system in favor of themselves, to the detriment of men. Circumcision was *practiced *by men, taken from the *advice *of men, with the *encouragement *of fellow men. FGM was never practiced in this country, so this issue cannot be taken as an example of women abolishing female circumcision while keeping male circumcision unjustly in place.

On subjects in which men can be seen suffering in larger numbers, such as homelessness, physiologic health, military drafts/war, etc, no feminist cause-and-effect can be made. Therefore, while these issues may certainly be of concern, there is no logical reason to pose these objections as an example of feminism run amok, which is what the original intent of the thread appears to be seeking to do (correct me if I’m wrong, OP, but the word “feminist” is popping up in the majority of posts).

It’s not a case of not caring – it’s a case of making sure that the arguments are appropriate to instances in which men suffer specifically in contrast to the fulfillment of female desire. I want be careful about making these distinctions – not because I want to downplay the troubles raised - but because even though it may be tempting to curse feminism for every wrong in the world it is not helpful to the men’s rights movement when certain accusations can be easily deconstructed. This can end up *hurting *the men’s rights movement by way of loss of credibility, because unfounded correlations will ultimately cause others to view the activists as men who illogically seek to uncover a feminist boogey-]man/-]woman behind every unhappiness in their lives, even when some of their problems are independent of feminism, and completely of their own making. It makes it seem as though they have more of an anti-feminist axe to grind than an actual interest in fair treatment.
Also. The DNA testing you of which you speak, at least in terms of defense against rape - is not available/admissable in all states!!!
I’m certainly open to correction, but it’s my understanding that a court order demanding paternity testing (initiated by either the male or the female) is attainable in all 50 states.
Also The DNA tests are rendered moot and irrelevant as the courts continually rule that a man still has to pay for child support for a child that is not his!!! Even after he has been lied to for years!!!
I truly hope these are isolated instances that are promoted as common occurrences in order to rile people up, and are by no means the norm. I don’t think that even the child’s well-being (which is usually the courts’ primary concern) can trump the consideration that has to be given to the men in these cases, and it seems that the courts are trying to play catch-up to this new development. So yeah, I definitely feel for the men. Ultimately though, society will have to pay for the *real *father who doesn’t – depressing all around, isn’t it? :sad_yes:
 
I agree with Nim on this. I will add there is BIG difference between the HHS mandate and circumcision. In all honesty the government isn’t physically doing anything to the human body with HHS mandate. The mandate does not cause physical harm. It causes moral harm but that moral harm can be undone with the passage of an appropriate law. Circumcision however cannot be undone so easily and it is physically harming ones body. The child cannot protest it like Catholics can protest the mandate. Muslims and Jews comprise such a small population that I think the only way to change the practice is to simply inform them otherwise. Many Jews are converting or just simply just don’t practice. I am sure they could be won over. The real problem is the arrogant nurses and doctors that push circumcision. They should be challenged and kept in check.
I have to disagree with the premise of you argument here, but only on the grounds that it is being taken out of the realm of the context of this thread. Circumcision was initially introduced not as a healthcare-related issue, but specifically as a men’s rights issue. It must therefore be decided under which heading it falls, because this will impact how legislation can be pursued. If we are going to look at it as dicriminatory child abuse toward male children, then any laws that seek to protect minors will have to apply to *all *male children, irrespective of the religion of their parents. (We cannot, for example, support a law that approves of beating a baby whose parents’ religion encourages such a practice). If, on the other hand, we view circumcision as an elective procedure that holds a certain subjective value for some over others, it cannot be claimed to be unjust toward all men, and the viewpoint would logically have to be “to each his own”. There will be no such law that makes it illegal to perform circumcisions on Christian boys, but permissable for Jewish and Muslim ones. So basically, this distinction is an important one that has to be decided, and anti-circ men and women (there are a lot of those too, you know!) will have to be prepared to justify a no-tolerance policy.

It might please you to know though that routine circumcision rates have been declining in the U.S., due in great part to mothers who have taken it upon themselves to research this matter.🙂
 
Originally posted by Nimzovik
Here is a classic example that is rampaging thruogh countries world over in which men face in todays Society from women’s lies:
I really think these false accusations happen way too much. There is no fairness. The female can say anything she wants, walks away and even if an only an accusation, his reputation is tainted.

Women take no accountability.

My exception would be with Chief Strauss-Kahn , it may or may not be true because why would a maid make an accusation when she knows she will be taintly as a crazy lady as she doesn’t have the means to fight money.
 
originally posted by silentfactor80
Many of the church’s teaching about sexuality seem more geared towards “keeping male sexuality in check.” …To me, its lipstick on a pig. I think this is something the Church should take note of and recognize that women have sexual desire too.
originally posted by Litcrit
Absolutely agree.
You know something is merely a stupid stereotype if it keeps changing.
Until relatively recently, women were, influenced by Plato and Neoplatonic philosophy rampant in the Early Modern period, thought to be the more material, bodily, wanton sex. The womb was seen as a wild animal that demands seed in order to be satisfied.
Men were thought of as spiritual and civilized/civilizing, and women as bodily and material, needing control.
Only recently, in the past two or three centuries, have women started to be seen as asexual angels, and men as horny beasts. You can see the flourishing of this idea in Victorian literature. Its effects are seen in what you’ve mentioned.
Curious about this, so Early Modern, what years? Interesting you said that men were thought as spiritual and civilized as they were fulfiling a need in society I assume by impregnating the women because she was seen as controlling,bodily and material.

During the Victorian age, do you not think it was done to protect women that she was seen as an angel and asexual. They didn’t want to “tarnish her halo” and wanted men to love and provide for her which I think men did keeping the falsehood going that she was angelic and asexual to assure her place at the top of community?
 
I agree absolutely. I certainly am sensitive to male emotions and am happy to focus exclusively on men in threads that discuss issues in which men and men only feel the brunt of discrimination, which is why I listed the four I find to be in accordance with this injustice on post #199. The only reason I brought in a parallel female perspective on the issues of paternity fraud and circumcision is because (aside from the fact that you included those two in your response to me) this thread originated in a way that framed men’s rights not as generic human rights (in which males just happen to comprise the majority of subjects), but as male rights in specific contrast and opposition to feminist rights which appear to garner favoritism and special privilege. In the words of the OP in post #1, men’s right are all about “balancing and keeping feminism in check”. On the issue of paternity/illegitimacy fraud, and others, I don’t honestly feel that men bear the brunt of anti-male discrimination, for there is equal discrimination toward women as well. Paternity fraud is all about infidelity, correct? The question is how do men suffer *more *from infidelity than women? They don’t – each gender suffers equally, and if they both suffer the same, there is no case of discrimination or imbalance against males in particular.

Or, as in the case of circumcision, this is not an issue in which women/feminists have somehow coerced the judicial system in favor of themselves, to the detriment of men. Circumcision was *practiced *by men, taken from the *advice *of men, with the *encouragement *of fellow men. FGM was never practiced in this country, so this issue cannot be taken as an example of women abolishing female circumcision while keeping male circumcision unjustly in place.

On subjects in which men can be seen suffering in larger numbers, such as homelessness, physiologic health, military drafts/war, etc, no feminist cause-and-effect can be made. Therefore, while these issues may certainly be of concern, there is no logical reason to pose these objections as an example of feminism run amok, which is what the original intent of the thread appears to be seeking to do (correct me if I’m wrong, OP, but the word “feminist” is popping up in the majority of posts).

It’s not a case of not caring – it’s a case of making sure that the arguments are appropriate to instances in which men suffer specifically in contrast to the fulfillment of female desire. I want be careful about making these distinctions – not because I want to downplay the troubles raised - but because even though it may be tempting to curse feminism for every wrong in the world it is not helpful to the men’s rights movement when certain accusations can be easily deconstructed. This can end up *hurting *the men’s rights movement by way of loss of credibility, because unfounded correlations will ultimately cause others to view the activists as men who illogically seek to uncover a feminist boogey-]man/-]woman behind every unhappiness in their lives, even when some of their problems are independent of feminism, and completely of their own making. It makes it seem as though they have more of an anti-feminist axe to grind than an actual interest in fair treatment.

I’m certainly open to correction, but it’s my understanding that a court order demanding paternity testing (initiated by either the male or the female) is attainable in all 50 states.

I truly hope these are isolated instances that are promoted as common occurrences in order to rile people up, and are by no means the norm. I don’t think that even the child’s well-being (which is usually the courts’ primary concern) can trump the consideration that has to be given to the men in these cases, and it seems that the courts are trying to play catch-up to this new development. So yeah, I definitely feel for the men. Ultimately though, society will have to pay for the *real *father who doesn’t – depressing all around, isn’t it? :sad_yes:
Ultimately feminism is relevant to men’s rights because at the end of the day money is always an issue. The government funds issues that specifically feminists care about but they do not care about or fund men’s issues. Building more prisons to lock men away is not spending money in a positive way on men’s issues.

When it comes to social advocacy for say the recently reapproved Violence Against Women Act it is entirely a feminist pay off. Domestic Violence affects men too but we don’t spend money on men’s shelters at all. If a men’s rights group tries to lobby for funding feminists derail the effort by saying they just want to take away from women.

There seems to be this pervading attitude on the part of many feminists that society overall is all about men. They like to promote the idea that men are already taken care of by society so funding more of their issues is unnecessary. Clearly, this is not true but they refuse to see it any way other than what benefits them. I don’t know about the other guys out there but I do not see society as “my world.” In fact most guys I know never say they earn money for themselves. Rather they say “I provide for my family.” Few men act like the world is about them. Whatever most of men do, we do for others which includes women! I don’t think most men run off to war to protect themselves. That would be oxymoronic. Feminists have a hard time understanding that men do think about women / children because all they do is focus on the handful of guys that don’t.
 
No. DNA testing of evidence regarding men in jail already for rape is not available in all 50 states. Many men were **freed **when it became available in their state.
 
Agree with Nim. It is also a Catholic issue because the Church advocates equality. Feminism while often claiming to be about equality does little more than pay lip service to men’s issues. Any attempt to advance a men’s rights issue usually runs into resistance with feminists. Of coarse there are some of this forum that accept the label of “feminist” and do care about men’s issues but they are a very small minority. A perfect example of hostile feminism is mandatory paternity tests (spectator.co.uk/essays/all/6391918/whos-the-daddy.thtml and hta.gov.uk/licensingandinspections/consentanddnafaqs.cfm). Also, its a Catholic Church issue because the Church is constant under attack by feminists for not allowing women priests, contraception, and abortion.
 
Indeed. Not only is Lip service by Feminists just token, Feminists, and their supporters, on the down low, militantly repress Men’s Rights and attack positive actions by the Men’s Rights Movement!!! For **proof **see here:

See here: google Girl Writes What - The Great Poster Tear Down on 'youtube’

Warning
, there may be an unsavory word or so uttered by those that tear down the posters.

Good is bad when it comes to Feminists. Up is down.

Feminists: All those that oppose Feminism are Bigots!!
 
I really think these false accusations happen way too much. There is no fairness. The female can say anything she wants, walks away and even if an only an accusation, his reputation is tainted.

Women take no accountability.

My exception would be with Chief Strauss-Kahn , it may or may not be true because why would a maid make an accusation when she knows she will be taintly as a crazy lady as she doesn’t have the means to fight money.
In many cases yes, the woman goes unpunished. This is without a doubt a disgusting violation of justice. Do these men ever file civil countersuits against their accusers?

I think we might disagree on Strauss, though I don’t want to get way off subject - I tend to believe this was a set-up to bring him down. I think someone in IMF orchestrated a Monica Lewinsky.:hmmm:
When it comes to social advocacy for say the recently reapproved Violence Against Women Act it is entirely a feminist pay off. Domestic Violence affects men too but we don’t spend money on men’s shelters at all. If a men’s rights group tries to lobby for funding feminists derail the effort by saying they just want to take away from women.
For my own information, do you have any sources to provide showing that specifically feminist organizations are derailing the lobbying efforts of men? I don’t know about the men’s shelters issue. I looked into volunteering for a homeless shelter here in the city that is run by my parish and it is for men only. Most of the shelters (at least in urban areas) are filled with men. I suppose a male victim of domestic violence could stay at a regular homeless shelter, no? I think the intent behind the domestic violence shelters for women is to protect them from their abusers going after them (they are supposed to be heavily secured), and also because many of them have children and the state is concerned with making sure that the children as well are protected.
I don’t know about the other guys out there but I do not see society as “my world.” In fact most guys I know never say they earn money for themselves. Rather they say “I provide for my family.” Few men act like the world is about them. Whatever most of men do, we do for others which includes women! I don’t think most men run off to war to protect themselves. That would be oxymoronic. Feminists have a hard time understanding that men do think about women / children because all they do is focus on the handful of guys that don’t.
I agree with this (except the war bit). Most men take pride in supporting their families, and this is often underappreciated.
No. DNA testing of evidence regarding men in jail already for rape is not available in all 50 states. Many men were **freed **when it became available in their state.
Is this a reply to me? I was referring to DNA testing for paternity cases, not men in jail.
Agree with Nim. It is also a Catholic issue because the Church advocates equality. Feminism while often claiming to be about equality does little more than pay lip service to men’s issues. Any attempt to advance a men’s rights issue usually runs into resistance with feminists. Of coarse there are some of this forum that accept the label of “feminist” and do care about men’s issues but they are a very small minority. A perfect example of hostile feminism is mandatory paternity tests (spectator.co.uk/essays/all/6391918/whos-the-daddy.thtml and hta.gov.uk/licensingandinspections/consentanddnafaqs.cfm). Also, its a Catholic Church issue because the Church is constant under attack by feminists for not allowing women priests, contraception, and abortion.
Could I ask you again to refer me to some links that show men’s rights advocacy being resisted by feminist organizations? What’s wrong with mandatory paternity tests, in your opinion?
Indeed. Not only is Lip service by Feminists just token, Feminists, and their supporters, on the down low, militantly repress Men’s Rights and attack positive actions by the Men’s Rights Movement!!! For **proof **see here:
I started reading a few men’s rights websites when I became interested in this subject and to be honest, I was quickly turned off. Not because there were no legitimate issues raised, but because of this attitude that seemed to prevail: “You can’t trust one woman, even if she claims to be sympathetic. They’re liars - all of them! - and are secretly plotting to betray you even when they pretend to care.” Not to mention that the websites disgusted me for a host of other reasons. Most of them (at least the popular ones) aren’t Catholic by any stretch of the imagination. There was one that I did like, and it was because the posters, even though they were very passionate about their cause, still managed to remain gentlemen. I’ll take a look at the links you provided - thanks for posting.
 
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