Mental Illness & Spirituality

[BarbaraTherese]

Hello to our cyberspace community out there:tiphat: :

I’m wondering what are the opinions re those who may suffer a major mental illness ie psychotic type illnesses. Do you think that sufferers of mental illness can continue to function as spiritual beings with spirituality intact? Do you think that a mentally ill person can still have a positive and quite healthy, active and functioning, quite valid, spiritual life as with the so called ‘normal’ and the chronically sane…

Thank you for your contribution if you vote and post to this Poll and the first time I have attempted to do a Poll, so if I err, please bear with me…

Barb ……Bethany…South Australia
Sunday, 17th. April, 2005 …2412hrs

 

[Mike_Olson]

I suffer from Bipolar Disease and I feel I am leading a spiritual life.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Mike_Olson:

I suffer from Bipolar Disease and I feel I am leading a spiritual life.

Hi Mike!..hope you don’t mind if I call you Mike…

Thanks for the comment and I too am an out of the closet sufferer of Bipolar Disorder (the second of the two major mental illnesses)…I am an APlus student on an Adult Campus in Adelaide. Last year I was awarded a Certificate of Merit for Outstanding Student…I too lead a quite active and healthy spiritual life. If my illness plays up (epsodic as you would know) then I unite my sufferings to those of Jesus on the cross "we make up in our own bodies what was lacking in the sufferings of Christ (St. Paul) and a stupendous statement!

I figure it this way - Jesus did not have a mental illness so I am having one united to him on his behalf - a real share in the sufferings of Christ for on the cross he suffered, physically, mentally and spiritually, also emotionally: “he was like us IN ALL THINGS except sin”…yet he did not have a mental illness -

Cacha around the traps, Mike…an Aussie term meaning cacha around…

Regards …Barb…Bethany Place
South Aust…Sun. 1 7th. April 2005
1440hrs

 

[Mike_Olson]

I also like to think of my suffering in relation to Christ’s passion. Sometimes it is so hard, through prayer and regular attendance of Mass it does make a difference. I am also on meds for it. I think that the Lord has sent me to specific doctors to help and to specific people ( some here on the forum ). He does work in mysterious ways. I am new to the Catholic church being baptised this Easter. He lead me to the Church too! I have been trying to make changes in my life and I am sure glad he is in the driver’s seat! Glad to meet you here in cyberspace. Not everyday I get to chat with someone down under! May the love of Jesus Christ always be upon you.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

I have so-called “severe bipolar” disease, or at least I had it.

For the last four years I have been on quite the exciting spiritual journey. I didn’t say it was all fun, but it has been fascinating. I was poster boy for moodswings.

Now, for the past two months or so I am nearly completely at peace, and when it is disturbed it is very subtle but I am still able to work it back out in anywhere from a few minutes to a day or two, and then I’m back at peace again.

Psychoses are diagnosed statistically, by their outward symptoms. It’s like there are checklists they do by observing and/or asking questions and if it comes out this way you’re bipolar. The other way and you’re depressed. It is not like there is a conclusive lab test like you’re getting tested for strep throat.

Bipolar is the disease that does not bring chicken soup. Instead of helping us with family logistics, people are inclined to give their two cents like telling my wife if they were her they would be kicking my *** because of all the worldly stuff that I’m not getting done. Like thanks a lot, b*tches, go take care of your own husband and children, about whom I probably know more than you do because I am connected with my family members and their friends.

By the way, psychosis is not caused by a “chemical imbalance.” Psychosis IS the cause of chemical imbalances, however, that then may cause other problems, and these may be treated (not cured) by drugs.

The root cause of psychosis is original sin and an upbringing in this society. Anyone who’s been locked up in a moderate security psycho ward knows that darn near everyone in there is an avid Christian, simply trying to do what is right, but become persecuted to the point they don’t know which end is up. They are so passionate about their faith and beliefs, that is what landed them in there.

Think about it. If we really believed and internalized what we say as Christians, we would be evangelizing all day long. We are supposed to have all this zeal, but find our zeal quenched when we try to apply it to an actual situation. No wonder we’re crazy; it’s like putting a thirsty man in a round building and telling him there’s a water fountain in the corner.

True healing is available through the Divine Therapist, a.k.a. the Holy Spirit. Drugs, treatments, lockups, and psychotherapy can point you in the right direction, reduce the pain or the pyshical symptoms, help clarify thought, allow the patient to get some much-needed sleep, and other things. They do not heal mental illness, but they can help hold things still and ease the pain while the real healing is done.

Many times treatment helps with the symptoms to the point that they person acts normal for a while, but then gets bad again under stress. That means the emotional wounds were not all healed.

Soon I may provide an audio file called “On Being God” by philosopher/ex Anglican priest which gives the best description I’ve ever heard of what it’s like to be in the hands of the psychiatric gurus. He compares the unquestioned authority of a prominent psychiatrist to define what is “normal” thinking and “help” those who fall outside those norms, to the authority of medieval archbishops.

Your best defense against mental illness is to get good spiritual guidance, or to become one of the great mass of lukewarm lemmings – the kind God hates. Moderation in everything is used as a cover for people to behave in such a way as to not challenge the world’s authorities. This is what society will produce and reward – nothing outside of the ordinary. Sit, stay, heel, and there you go, or you might lose your paycheck. Good boy. I have no doubt that Jesus would have been diagnosed by most psychiatrists (except a few who are truly therapeutic) as schizophrenic or psychotic.

Alan

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Mike_Olson:

I also like to think of my suffering in relation to Christ’s passion. Sometimes it is so hard, through prayer and regular attendance of Mass it does make a difference. I am also on meds for it. I think that the Lord has sent me to specific doctors to help and to specific people ( some here on the forum ). He does work in mysterious ways. I am new to the Catholic church being baptised this Easter. He lead me to the Church too! I have been trying to make changes in my life and I am sure glad he is in the driver’s seat! Glad to meet you here in cyberspace. Not everyday I get to chat with someone down under! May the love of Jesus Christ always be upon you.

Greetings, Mike!.. smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_34.gif

I went through a very long stage, years, in the early years of my illness feeling that God was punishing me…at the same time I was suffering scruples as well as the burden of the illness…light did start to dawn after many many years and a rather amazing incident after Confession one day … and I began to insight that suffering is not truly suffering unless you are suffering…also that I was indeed as St. Paul says contributing to the completion of The Passion of Christ (“we make up in our own bodies and the mind is a part of our body ] what was lacking in the sufferings of Christ”) this stunning and stupendous statement (that Christ’s sufferings were incomplete)
seemed to hit me like a ton of bricks for the first time, though it was familiar to me previously.

Incidentally, I too am on medication every night…and if it looks like the early warning signs of an episode, that medication is increased. I regard medication as my lifeline.

Yes indeedy, The Lord moves in very strange ways sometimes an it can be extremly difficult to hold that he is actually in the situation, whatever. But Jesus has told us that not even a hair falls from our head that The Father does not know of it. So at times one believes against the odds as it were that The Lord is indeed in the situation, whatever, with us. It is an act of Dark dark Faith…a leap into a chasm of darkness with trust that is also Dark Trust.

How wondrous…you are to be baptized this Easter…congratulations aboundingly! … smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_30_104.gif

Yes…we are both a couple of crazies from Downunder smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_16_1.gif smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_16_1.gif smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_16_1.gif … good to meecha Mike in the Catholic Answers Cyberspace Community, brother!.. mental illness is so ‘horrific’ and confusing sometimes, as you know, that we really have to develop a sense of humour about it at times.

You just may be interested in my posts in the thread “Have you ever undergone The Dark Night”. I came ‘out of the closet’ as it were in that thread re my suffering Bipoar and defending the fact that people with mental illness can indeed remain quite deeply and positively spiritual beings…that our spirituality remains intact or leastways it can. Because I tend to think the ‘chronically sane and normal’ have perhaps no idea nor could they perhaps even approximate what it is like to suffer mental illness, and thus have a completly incorrect notion(s) at times about it and we can become second class citizens in many eyes…hence we bear stigma not only in our general community but often our Faith Community…

But I hope Mike that if you are indeed in you Catholic parish ‘out of the closet’ re mental illness, that your community will be an enlightened one…I feel from your post that you will be an excellent ambassador for the mentally ill and the fact that we can and very often do remain very deeply spiritual people undergoing an illness affecting possibly mental funtioning, but not spiritual.

Great to meecha Mike…keep up the good work!
…works! smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/26/26_11_8.gif

God Bless and keep you close with conscious consolations

Love in The Fraternity of The Lord
Regards
Barb …Bethany Place…South Aussie
Sunday 17th. April, 2005…1631hrs

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Another point I’d make is that compared to other problems, mental illness is the scariest because you literally have runaway thoughts and emotions, making you behave like a walking, talking Windows machine that is on the verge of crashing all the time and reboot is not available. (Actually, reboot could be compared to seeking interior silence such as in contemplative prayer, inviting contemplation as a gift delivered by the Holy Spirit.)

My dad died a few years ago. I can get over that and get on with my life. We are in a bankruptcy case, and I’m just about over that even though it’s still open. Our house caught fire on Good Friday, and I’m emotionally over it already – there is several months of cleanup and resoration that lies ahead, but that’s all coming one day at a time and I am at perfect peace with it. Matter of fact, when the young man turned away from Jesus sad because of his many possessions, it is clear Jesus is talking about attachment to things, not so much about stewardship. This sounds weird, maybe, but the next best thing for this young man’s spirit might just have been a house fire.

I’d take ten houses burning down before I’d take another serious episode of psychosis. This house episode has strengthened me so far, and yes it has brought chicken soup.

It’s funny how when you lose things that are not able to be replaced, you suddenly realize you must not need them anymore because they are gone and you are still here.

Alan

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Mike_Olson:

I also like to think of my suffering in relation to Christ’s passion.

When they tricked me into getting inside the ward and then surrounded me with white coats, I told my confused wife that I am going to have to go away for a while.

At that point I had no idea whether I would see my family again. As far as I was concerned, I was playing the role of Christ and they were taking me away because they didn’t understand how much I loved them. I was slightly more complicated than that, but not much.

Alan

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Alan
Alan, I have had to delete your post as the computer did not like the number of words involved in my post…apologies!
Hello again Alan from Wichita smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_8_204.gif …we have meet before in the workroom as it were, of this cyberspace community…

Great to catcha up with you again and I trust all goes well with you, as it does with me.

Just picking up on a few points…and bold italics are from your post above…
Bipolar is the disease that does not bring chicken soup. Instead of helping us with family logistics, people are inclined to give their two cents like telling my wife if they were her they would be kicking my *** because of all the worldly stuff that I’m not getting done. Like thanks a lot, btches, go take care of your own husband and children, about whom I probably know more than you do because I am connected with my family members and their friends.*

My ex husband (marriage annulled) was told by the doctors I would be a cot case for the rest of my life. I am now an APlus student on an Adult Campus & last year awarded Outstanding Student Merit Award. I am returning to the workforce soon into my old career pre onset illness of private secretary. A cot case I am not…well thirty years down the line of suffering Bipolar that is.

By the way, psychosis is not caused by a “chemical imbalance.” Psychosis IS the cause of chemical imbalances, however, that then may cause other problems, and these may be treated (not cured) by drugs.

Who knows!? the reality of it all -certainly I do not think medical science. From the quote from your post in italics above it’s a case of what comes first…chicken or egg!..my doctor feels that under stress my brain chemicals etc. just go haywire, whereas in normal people (no recommendation necessarily) the brain chemicals etc. help them deal with stress. Other doctors state I do not suffer Bipo lar. So to resolve conflicts…I told t hem I did not care if they called me a Pineapple Upside Down cake…I just wanted to live a construcive, fulfilling and contributing life in the general community. It’s all a case of the rose really would smell as sweet called a noxious weed! (perhaps rose…where mental illness is concerned is not a good example…but no matter!..I think my point is established or hope so!)

Your best defense against mental illness is to get good spiritual guidance, or to become one of the great mass of lukewarm lemmings – the kind God hates.

Absolutely!..nothing is impossible to God …thankfully prior to illness I already had a priest spiritual director who knew me when I was ‘chronically sane and normal’ and who did not abandon me in the slightest, one iota, once I became ill.

Thanks for contributing Alan (hope you don’t mind if I call you Alan) and it is a matter of joy that other sufferers are contributing. I do hope we will hear from the ‘chronically sane and normal’ smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_8_13.gif as well…

God Bless…

Regards
Barb…Bethany Place…South Australia
Sunday 17th. April, 2005… 1657hrs

 

[BarbaraTherese]

AlanFromWichita:

Another point I’d make is that compared to other problems, mental illness is the scariest

I’d take ten houses burning down before I’d take another serious episode of psychosis. This house episode has strengthened me so far, and yes it has brought chicken soup.

Alan

As usual, I’m butting in again smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_28_121.gif …well said Alan…though honesly I mean no patronization or condescension…me be just anofer crazy!:whacky: …

Quoting from your post:
I’d take ten houses burning down before I’d take another serious episode of psychosis.

Yeah!..I went six years after my director passed away, ill, homeless, unwanted, broke, confused…I used to say to myself: “Look Kid, this aint the end of the world yer know…it only b-------- feels like it!”…would I go back through those six years rather than have another psychotic episde;

TOO B----------- RIGHT! …oh dear, I hope the Forum Moderators and/or Administrator do not come down upon me like a ton of bricks…gee fellas, ladies whatever…we Aussies…true blue brand…
…well we just talk like that, yer see!!! smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/10/10_9_205.gif

…thanks again Alan for contributing LEASTWAYS I HOPE
to clarification on this Board re mental illness and some posts in other places that made my hair stand on end…and blood heat up…
But then I reasoned those posts were not due to guile, I don’t think, but ignorance and incorrect notions
about mental illness. smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_2_205.gif

Great to catcha again, Alan …

Love in The Fraternity of The Lord
and may he richly bless you in all things…and yours…

Regards
Barb, Bethany Place…South Australia
Sunday 17th. April, 2005… 1733hrs

 

[AlanFromWichita]

BarbaraTherese:

But then I reasoned those posts were not due to guile, I don’t think, but ignorance and incorrect notions
about mental illness. smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_2_205.gif

Yes, and I think it’s time to unleash one of the secret weapons that helped pull me out of the damage that greedy (oops I mean well-meaning) psychiatrists did when they locked me up without so much as a telephone call by an actual psychiatrist, refused my repeated queries about why I was there and how I presented a danger to myself or others, lied to my wife to try to scare her into having me committed (psychiatry often loves to interpose itself between spouses), treated me like a laboratory rat they had to “observe” rather than talk to so they could get home. They lied to me to get me into the hospital in the first place so they could surround me.

Anyway it is an audio file by Alan Watts, called “On Being God.” I uploaded it to wordsfree.org/catholic/audio/

For others with experiences like mine, and in particular involuntary hospitalization, this audio can be a life saver. Trust me, we aren’t the ones who are crazy. We were made to seem crazy by fools in society, and then treated like fools by fools with toolbags of psychiatric tricks.

There are good psychiatrists, as my current one is among them. Just like anything else, though, put powerful tools and a license into the hands of most people and if they are not geniuses they will not know how to use them with genius.

To those who want to know what it feels like to get locked up by shrinks, this is the absolute best description I’ve heard. It’s 57M, so I hope you have broadband.

Caution: this guy Alan Watts does not claim to agree with Catholic or Christian beliefs, although he has some knowledge of them because he used to be a priest in the Church of England – he often uses Christ’s teachings to make his point.
**
Disclaimer:** I’m not claiming psychiatric treatment in itself is bad or destructive. I currently take medication as prescribed by my doctor. All too frequently, though, craziness is manufactured by society, exacerbated by Big Medicine, and there are all too many mediocre psychiatrists who have such poor listening skills they may as well be veterinarians.

Alan

 

[BarbaraTherese]

AlanFromWichita:

Yes, and I think it’s time to unleash one of the secret weapons that helped pull me out of the damage that greedy (oops I mean well-meaning) psychiatrists did when they locked me up without so much as a telephone call by an actual psychiatrist, refused my repeated queries about why I was there and how I presented a danger to myself or others, lied to my wife to try to scare her into having me committed (psychiatry often loves to interpose itself between spouses), treated me like a laboratory rat they had to “observe” rather than talk to so they could get home. They lied to me to get me into the hospital in the first place so they could surround me.

Anyway it is an audio file by Alan Watts, called “On Being God.” I uploaded it to wordsfree.org/catholic/audio/

For others with experiences like mine, and in particular involuntary hospitalization, this audio can be a life saver. Trust me, we aren’t the ones who are crazy. We were made to seem crazy by fools in society, and then treated like fools by fools with toolbags of psychiatric tricks.

There are good psychiatrists, as my current one is among them. Just like anything else, though, put powerful tools and a license into the hands of most people and if they are not geniuses they will not know how to use them with genius.

To those who want to know what it feels like to get locked up by shrinks, this is the absolute best description I’ve heard. It’s 57M, so I hope you have broadband.

Caution: this guy Alan Watts does not claim to agree with Catholic or Christian beliefs, although he has some knowledge of them because he used to be a priest in the Church of England – he often uses Christ’s teachings to make his point.

Disclaimer: I’m not claiming psychiatric treatment in itself is bad or destructive. I currently take medication as prescribed by my doctor. All too frequently, though, craziness is manufactured by society, exacerbated by Big Medicine, and there are all too many mediocre psychiatrists who have such poor listening skills they may as well be veterinarians.

Alan

smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_5_102.gif

Hi Alan…Barb online…This poll has had 47 views but it seems to date anyway that only those who suffer a mental illness are contributing… and if this continues for the 30 days of this Poll it will be a statement in itself.

What you have to say, Alan, about the treatment of psychiatric patients is very true…in fact there is not much I can add to it. I think every last one of us have tales to tell of being incarcerated in a psychiatric ward/hospital which are quite, even extremely, harrowing to say the least. We have also harrowing tales to tell of psychiatrists.
T hanks very much for the (name removed by moderator)ut Alan…I think you are stating our case well, clearly and obviously coming from hands on knowledge and experience and unafraid to speak out.
You write, Alan, in a conversational flow, easy to read . I hope that this Board is not your only venue for stating our case!

Onyer Mate! smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/5/5_5_1.gif

Regards
Barb
Bethany, Sth Aust
Mon. 18.4.04
…0742hrs.

 

[Blanka]

Most certainly someone with mental illness can have a valid and good spiritual life. I have noticed that it is often those who have the simplest child-like faith who are closer to God. I see so much sincerity of heart in Schizophrenic patients that is brings joy to my heart and makes my job worth while. If you take time to talk with someone who has a serious mental illness, you will see that most are very intelligent. But what they usually lack is the pretentiousness that you see in so many so called “normal” people. I truly believe that the seriously mentally ill have a closer connection with God that seems to come naturally (and I’m not referring to delusions). A kind word or smile from a seriously mentally ill patient is more of a blessing to me than a compliment from my supervisor. :tiphat:

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Blanka:

Most certainly someone with mental illness can have a valid and good spiritual life. I have noticed that it is often those who have the simplest child-like faith who are closer to God. I see so much sincerity of heart in Schizophrenic patients that is brings joy to my heart and makes my job worth while. If you take time to talk with someone who has a serious mental illness, you will see that most are very intelligent. But what they usually lack is the pretentiousness that you see in so many so called “normal” people. I truly believe that the seriously mentally ill have a closer connection with God that seems to come naturally (and I’m not referring to delusions). A kind word or smile from a seriously mentally ill patient is more of a blessing to me than a compliment from my supervisor. :tiphat:

Dear Blanka,

What a beautiful post! :crying:

Alan

 

[AlanFromWichita]

BarbaraTherese:

I hope that this Board is not your only venue for stating our case!

Thank you for your critique. I would love to help people believe there is healing.

What say we start a website? One of my domains is wordsfree.org; maybe I could make a subdomain called psycho.wordsfree.org or something?

Alan

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Blanka:

Most certainly someone with mental illness can have a valid and good spiritual life. I have noticed that it is often those who have the simplest child-like faith who are closer to God. I see so much sincerity of heart in Schizophrenic patients that is brings joy to my heart and makes my job worth while. If you take time to talk with someone who has a serious mental illness, you will see that most are very intelligent. But what they usually lack is the pretentiousness that you see in so many so called “normal” people. I truly believe that the seriously mentally ill have a closer connection with God that seems to come naturally (and I’m not referring to delusions). A kind word or smile from a seriously mentally ill patient is more of essing to me than a compliment from my supervisor. :tiphat:

Hi there Blanka - great to run into you on this Board! smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_3v.gif

I agree with Alan that yours is a beautiful post…and very true!
I called in at the Mental Health Rehab. Club today and had lunch…people without guile!

Regards…
Barb:tiphat: …Bethany Place…Sth. Aust.
Mon. 18.4.05… 11.26pm

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Psycho lab #1:

In case anyone wants to know what it’s like to think like a bipolar, I have an example. I was proofreading my last post on another thread, and realized it had several element of polar thinking. It mixed seriousness with humor, claimed disinterest with demonstrated interest, preachy but self-deprecating, etc.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=593380&postcount=33

It’s like every day is “opposite day” in the words of one of my daughters. Anything you hear immediately registers thoughts, ideas, imagination, and even fear of lack of knowledge, along the entire scale from good to bad, beautiful to grotesque, and every judgement scale available that can be attached. And all this thinking at a mile a minute.

When I started on this forum, I constantly irritated people. The post I am self-examining above shows a much more advanced tone. This forum is my practice in the game of communications, and as you see it is almost impossible to pin down what I actually think by reading that post because I am deathly afraid of others disapproving of the way I think – if they think that I think in such a way that sees them poorly. Maybe I’m not here to evangelize, but all for myself. This forum is my video game? See what I mean? Two ways of looking at the same thing makes me bipolar – simultaneously good and evil. It can be very unsettling to have all these thoughts running around. It can also be very strategic if one can get with it because it gives a whole lot of alternatives in times of emotional crisis.

That’s why kooks are so good at counseling other kooks.

Alan

 

[asteroid]

Praise God!

I just voted and the results are good!

I’ve suffered with a recurrent depressive illness, being schizotypal, self-harm urges or action, and a few other little things for over 20 years.

Not too many people in the church know about this (I haven’t been there that long) but those who do are very understanding. No one has yet told me to pull my socks up, just pray about it, rebuke it, cast out the demon of depression, stop being downcast and start hoping in God.

Actually through everything, staying close to God is the best thing I can do. Medication (and lots of different types) hasn’t helped me and the schizotypal diagnosis basically means medication doesn’t work and long-term counselling probably won’t do much good either.

What does help is God. Hard-work. Perseverance. Slowly learning how to conquer daily.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

asteroid:

Actually through everything, staying close to God is the best thing I can do. Medication (and lots of different types) hasn’t helped me and the schizotypal diagnosis basically means medication doesn’t work and long-term counselling probably won’t do much good either.

What does help is God. Hard-work. Perseverance. Slowly learning how to conquer daily.

I totally agree!

Medication does not actually correct the problem in most cases. It can help the symptoms, but it does not correct the underlying problem of being an emotional basket case due to original sin and an upbringing in a worldly society. It can, however, help correct symptoms such as racing heart rate, high blood pressure, and insomnia. My shrink looks at it kind of like wearing a cast. It doesn’t actually fix the problem, but it helps hold things together so your body is empowered to heal itself naturally. Of course, I tell him it is the Holy Spirit that I believe heals me, and he’s one of the few shrinks I know who can discuss such spiritual concepts with me without looking at me funny. He is interested in my beliefs, but still used to try to get me to avoid introspection and focus on religion. That’s the only thing I disobeyed him over; I did just the opposite and dug in farther. He’s OK with it now because he has seen marvelous results in me. I always fancied myself a tool to evangelize the psychiatric community, ever since 1983.

Alan

P.S. By the “psychiatric community” I meant the doctors. The patients, by and large, don’t need evangelization. They need someone to listen to them as if they were actually human beings.

 

[magdaline]

Fr. Groeschel said that “mental illness is like wearing a crown of thorns” suffering but getting through it our own personal passion