MERGED: Does Hell exist today?

[BTTG]

Hi

You may have mentioned this in an earlier post, but do you believe people are in hell today? Do you believe people are in heaven today?

Thank you

 

[BTTG]

I’m afraid I tend to go along with the vision of hell given to the children at Fatima, and as described by Lucia in the first mystery. Most of the readers would be aware of it.

It’s a bit more than just intense spiritual pain. I know we’re not supposed to talk about personal “revelations”, but I’ve mentioned before that the night my father died he appeared in my room. At the very end of the exchange which then ensued, he gave this terrifying scream. However he was also definitely looking at something that was coming for him.

I still remember the scream 31 years later, and the way he was standing and the obvious fact he could see something coming at him. I couldn’t see it, just him.

It’s real.

I don’t want to sound insensitive about your father. However, Satan is a master at deception and miracles. Just look at what’s on our radio and TV stations today. I will provide biblical support of why what happened in your experience is the workings of Satan and not of God.

May the comforter be with you. I pray that the screams will be removed from your conscious.

 

[BTTG]

A total, mind-consuming, dark formlessness. Bodyhood and a clear, knowing mind are gifts of GOD, and we have them as human beings and in Heaven; but not if we are cut off from Him.

The Gospels. Our LORD referred to Hell more than HE did to Heaven. Futhermore, HE is our Saviour, and if there were no Hell, there would be nothing to be saved from.

There have to be. Dead human beings go somewhere (the “where” referring to a locale or world of being, not a direction of travel as we understand). Those who do not find the path of life will finalize in Hell.

ICXC NIKA

There will be a hell at the end of the age…lake of fire… no body wants to suffer the second death. Yes hell is real, but not until the final judgement.

Read Gen. 2;7 about creation of life and Eccl. 12:7 about what happens at death. God gave us the dust and the spirit. God did not give us a soul. We became a living soul after God gave us the dust and the spirit. Example ; 1 Hydrogen atom plus 2 Oxygen molecules, it becomes water. Take away the Hydrogen and Oxygen, where does the water go?

 

[BTTG]

The Bible could be part true and part false, also.

Be careful with this statement.

 

[larkin31]

Be careful with this statement.

I am always careful with this statement. And very sincere. To claim that it is either and only ALL true or ALL false is poor logic and contrary to collective human experience and history.

 

[GaryTaylor]

I don’t want to sound insensitive about your father. However, Satan is a master at deception and miracles. Just look at what’s on our radio and TV stations today. I will provide biblical support of why what happened in your experience is the workings of Satan and not of God.

May the comforter be with you. I pray that the screams will be removed from your conscious.

I Pray you wake before those screams become your daily reality for now on.

So in your infinate wisdom, you believe that satan appeared as Mary to spread the word of God and Jesus Christ in front of a 1/4 million people for 2-years up to 8hrs a day. While performing Miracles of Healing? All confirmed and all there said THE BLESSED VIRGiN MOTHER when they could mange to get over the AWE and speak. And this would be NON BELIEVERS like yourself.

Now you want to think about this a bit longer. Or are you ready to impart some more wisdom on us?
Sounds like satans working to convert to sinners to Christology these days hey? .

He keeps that kind of conversion up we won’t need to be here daily.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Originally Posted by larkin31
The Bible could be part true and part false, also.

Which only confirms the thinking, that you really don’t know what your doing. I suggest you find the real Truth, Your gambling with the only Soul you have. And check this out. Your Losing and don’t even know it.

 

[GaryTaylor]

I am always careful with this statement. And very sincere. To claim that it is either and only ALL true or ALL false is poor logic and contrary to collective human experience and history.

Listen, if there is a “specific” point you don’t agree with from the Bible? Why not address that point? This way we arn’t left to wonder what you are talking about.

False, True? makes one wonder if you think God is false ot what exactly you do believe in.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

I don’t want to sound insensitive about your father. However, Satan is a master at deception and miracles. Just look at what’s on our radio and TV stations today. I will provide biblical support of why what happened in your experience is the workings of Satan and not of God.

May the comforter be with you. I pray that the screams will be removed from your conscious.

I’ve been through this before and I still think it was him. So far nothing anybody has said has changed my mind.

We’re told we are judged immediately after death. He was judged, and as part of that judgment he was told to apologise. I know of nothing - repentance, contrition, penance - that my father did to avoid judgment.

I might point out I was an atheist at the time, and the scream had the salutary effect of making it clear there was a judgment. As far as I’m concerned, all that I saw was evidence that Christ’s statements about hell are correct.

It exists. And I can tell you now that he was terrified to the core.

 

[larkin31]

Listen, if there is a “specific” point you don’t agree with from the Bible? Why not address that point? This way we arn’t left to wonder what you are talking about.

False, True? makes one wonder if you think God is false ot what exactly you do believe in.

I am agnostic, as I label myself in the descriptor box. I was commenting on the logic of the claim. I don’t think that there is a hell, no. Nor do I see any logical requirement that there be one.

 

[Reuben_J]

Hi

You may have mentioned this in an earlier post, but do you believe people are in hell today? Do you believe people are in heaven today?

Thank you

Certainly there are people in heaven today. As for in hell, we cannot say for certainty considering that God is a compassionate, merciful, forgiving and loving God. Neverheless we believe that the fallen angel, a.k.a. Satan is there.

 

[BTTG]

Honestly, that is a bizarre question! Of course it does and always will. You can not believe in heaven if you do not believe in hell, unless you believe everyone goes to heaven regardless of their mortal lives (in which case, you would certainly be wrong).

When does judgement take place?

 

[BTTG]

I Pray you wake before those screams become your daily reality for now on.

So in your infinate wisdom, you believe that satan appeared as Mary to spread the word of God and Jesus Christ in front of a 1/4 million people for 2-years up to 8hrs a day. While performing Miracles of Healing? All confirmed and all there said THE BLESSED VIRGiN MOTHER when they could mange to get over the AWE and speak. And this would be NON BELIEVERS like yourself.

Now you want to think about this a bit longer. Or are you ready to impart some more wisdom on us?
Sounds like satans working to convert to sinners to Christology these days hey? .

He keeps that kind of conversion up we won’t need to be here daily.

Sorry, I don’t believe we are understanding each other. I take full responsibility for that.

Let’s start from the beginning.

I am not sure what you are saying with your statement of… "you believe that satan appeared as Mary to spread the word of God and Jesus Christ in front of a 1/4 million people for 2-years up to 8hrs a day. While performing Miracles of Healing? "

Would you please explain.

Thank you

 

[StevieD]

I haven’t had time to read every post here, so I don’t know whether anyone has given Saint Pio’s reply to a penitent who said that he could not believe in hell. Saint Pio said that it was absolutely no problem at all as he would certainly believe it when he arrived there! (I love that Saint).

Other authorities - Jesus, the Old Testament, the New Testament, the Church Fathers, numerous Saints, Our Lady of Fatima, etc. etc. etc. If you doubt hell, you are in big, big trouble.

 

[BTTG]

Certainly there are people in heaven today. As for in hell, we cannot say for certainty considering that God is a compassionate, merciful, forgiving and loving God. Neverheless we believe that the fallen angel, a.k.a. Satan is there.

Does Satan have access to heaven?

 

[BTTG]

I haven’t had time to read every post here, so I don’t know whether anyone has given Saint Pio’s reply to a penitent who said that he could not believe in hell. Saint Pio said that it was absolutely no problem at all as he would certainly believe it when he arrived there! (I love that Saint).

Other authorities - Jesus, the Old Testament, the New Testament, the Church Fathers, numerous Saints, Our Lady of Fatima, etc. etc. etc. If you doubt hell, you are in big, big trouble.

Hey Stevie

Glad you could join the thread. When are the dead judged?

Also, why I am in trouble if I doubt that hell exist today? By the grace of God, by righteousness is my faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[StevieD]

Hey Stevie

Glad you could join the thread. When are the dead judged?

Also, why I am in trouble if I doubt that hell exist today? By the grace of God, by righteousness is my faith in Jesus Christ.

I am not an authority but happily I know some people who are. Just read the Catholic Catechism it’s great but I can’t really provide a summary here. Do check out the Early Church Fathers too. God Bless and goodbye.

 

[BTTG]

I am not an authority but happily I know some people who are. Just read the Catholic Catechism it’s great but I can’t really provide a summary here. Do check out the Early Church Fathers too. God Bless and goodbye.

Hi Stevie,

With all do respect, many people will rely more on what a church says then what the Bible says.

Analogy: I love my parents very much. If I was a teenager and my parents told me that there was nothing wrong with smoking and my friend told me that it wasn’t because of the following reasons… Would it be of my best interest to listen to my parents and do what they say because they have more knowledge and wisdom then me. Or, should I, with caution ,examine the reasons my friend had for not smoking.
During Jesus’ time the Pharisees had the knowledge of the OT, where they correct with the Messiah?

 

[Mijoy2]

Well said, Publisher.

I think your comment also expresses the fundamental difference in the beliefs of many Unitarian Universalists and some of the more mainstream Christian beliefs.

I guess you could say we are blessed with the grace of not having to worry about our salvation. Therefore, we are better able to focus our energies on the world around us and making it a better place.

Thanks for the post.

Seeker.

But where is your Truth? From what does it emerge?
Seeker, of all faiths UU is the most baseless to me. Honestly, I say this with all due respect. I understand the concept of “all is good” but of what authority and/or of what basis do you come to this conclusion? Where does it begin and where does it end?

Christians believe in a fallen mankind in need of a savior. This Savior was provided by God Himself. He is freely given but NOT freely recieved. We MUST respond to HIs offer. I believe I stated this in a manner that is ecumenical.

What do UU’s believe? “All is good?”. If so then by what reason, by what value do we exist? It seems to me there is no reason. Ever notice you feel your best when you work to accomplish something? Faith is a work. Just expecting all to be good is of no benefit to anyone.

It’s a lovely concept Seeker, but it falls apart. Love is not easy it si difficult. But it comes with rewards for all who Love as God Loves. Not simply by all who exist.

Said in profound respect and with love. Hope you understand. Forgive me if you see otherwise.

 

[larkin31]

What do UU’s believe? “All is good?”. If so then by what reason, by what value do we exist? It seems to me there is no reason.

Perhaps your failure to come up with another reason for living is from a lack of imagination. Why should salvation of fallen souls be the only valid reason for life?