MERGED: If I don't sing, have I failed to participate in the Mass?/Singing at Mass

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jmcrae said:
I find that a disappointing point of view. The commandment tells us to “make a joyful noise” - it doesn’t say anything about singing on key. I don’t think anyone should ever be discouraged from singing at Mass just because they can’t hold a tune.
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We can go on all day about that. Jesus also said to pluck out your eye. The church is there to interpret the bible for us. We aren’t protestants.

And the church has said clearly through her traditions of the Roman Rite, her popes (JPII, I posted above) and other documents that there’s nothing wrong with not singing.
 
babochka said:
This morning, I attended the Divine Liturgy in the Byzantine Rite for our All Souls Saturday. It was a small crowd; even our cantor was absent. It was just me and a couple of my children, my dad, another elderly gentleman, and the priest. Sadly, I get my singing abilities from my dad. The Byzantine Divine Liturgy is entirely sung, acapella. Ouch. I asked my Dad afterward if he thought that God even recognized what was coming form the pews as singing. Still, we sang. What else could we do. And we prayed with our singing.

There is a famous quote by St. Augustine: “He who sings, prays twice.” Fr. Z has pointed out that the Latin actually says, “He who sings well prays twice”. Of course, it is more nuanced than any out of context quote can get across:

**
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I just love all you lockstep sheep and papist throwbacks! 😃
 
Inego_de_Loyola said:
From the Catechism of Pope St.Pius X:
The Way to Assist at Mass

15 Q. What is required in order to assist at Holy Mass well and profitably?
A. To assist at Holy Mass well and profitably two things are necessary: (1) Modesty of person and (2) Devotion of heart.

16 Q. In what does modesty of person consist?
A. Modesty of person consists especially in being modestly dressed, in observing silence and recollection and, as far as possible, in remaining kneeling, except during the time of the two Gospels which are heard standing.

17 Q. In hearing Holy Mass which is the best way to practise true devotion?
A. In hearing Holy Mass the best way to practise true devotion is the following: (1) From the very beginning to unite our intention with that of the priest, offering the Holy Sacrifice to God for the ends for which it was instituted. (2) To accompany the priest in each prayer and action of the Sacrifice. (3) To meditate on the passion and death of Jesus Christ And to heartily detest our sins, which have been the cause of them. (4) To go to Communion, or at least to make a spiritual Communion while the priest communicates.

18 Q. What is spiritual Communion?
A. Spiritual Communion is a great desire to be united sacramentally with Jesus Christ. saying, for example: “My Lord Jesus Christ, I desire with my whole heart to be united with Thee now and forever;” and then make the same acts that are to be made before and after sacramental Communion.

19 Q. Does the recitation of the Rosary or other prayers during Mass prevent us from hearing it with profit?
A. The recitation of the Rosary and other prayers during Mass does not prevent us from hearing it with profit, provided we try As far as possible to follow the parts of the Holy Sacrifice.

20 Q. Is it advisable to pray for others while assisting at Mass?
A. Yes it is advisable to pray for others while assisting at Mass; nay more, the time of Holy Mass is the most suitable of all times to pray for the living and the dead.

21 Q. What should we do after Mass?
A. After Mass we should give God thanks for having allowed us to assist at this great Sacrifice, and we should ask pardon for All the faults we may have committed while assisting at it.
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Thanks for sharing that!!!
 
superamazingman said:
We can go on all day about that. Jesus also said to pluck out your eye. The church is there to interpret the bible for us. We aren’t protestants.
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Where did you get all this protestant stuff from that post? Surely you do not believe we should actively discourage people from singing because they are tuned impaired, do you?
ProVobis said:
Actually this is the principle behind noise-cancelling earphones.
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Interesting. So, is singing badly prayer cancelling?

He who sings nice
Prays twice
Unless it is poorly done
Then it is negative one.

😃
 
As St. Augustine says, “Singing is for the one who loves.”4 Music is therefore a
sign of God’s love for us and of our love for him. In this sense, it is very personal. But unless music sounds, it is not music, and whenever it sounds, it is accessible to others. By its very nature song has both an individual and a communal dimension. Thus, it is no wonder that singing together in church expresses so well the sacramental presence of God to his people.

evansville-diocese.org/worship/SingToTheLord.pdf
 
Okay I am Anglican and there is a different slant of things and have my own personal slant on things ontop of being anglican

But I actively take part in the Mass by Singing and am in the choir. That is my way of taking part and on the weeks I am not Singing, I am serving on the Altar and that too is my way of taking part. We all actively take part in different ways and focus on what we find works for us as worshipping God. Tell me to sit there in the pew and just listen. Yeh, I be still enough but I wouldn’t like to tell you where my thoughts would be as I am unable to participate that way. Some people can and I admire them but for me, I need to be much more part of it. But if we are not so focused on one part doesn’t mean that we have failed to participate in the Mass whether Anglican or Catholic. Sometimes being present in church is enough and God sees what we are about each time and is understanding. He don’t judge us like we judge each other. So if someone looks at you for not singing, that is their problem, not yours. If they make you feel uncomfortable for not singing then take the matter up with the priest because no one has that right and he mayn’t do anything about it because there isn’t a lot he can do about sideways looks etc, though we just had all of that in a sermon today so perhaps he can do more than he thinks of at first. If you don’t wanna-sing, then don’t sing. I love singing and can’t imagine not singing but am intelligent enough to know not everyone likes singing and we had one priest who actually told us as a choir as far as he is concerned we can do what we want each sunday as in not be a choir he was actually trying to say because he didn’t like any music. We pretended to misunderstand him since he wasn’t actually saying no to us, just letting us be aware it was our choice only that we stuck it out and nowt to do with him.

If you don’t want to sing then don’t. Perhaps you can read the words because some of the hymns are quite good to read into and lots of people miss that when they are blindly singing along. There are some beautiful words out there. So yeh, sit and listen if that what you prefer to do or switch of into your own prayer…👍
 
jmcrae said:
I find that a disappointing point of view. The commandment tells us to “make a joyful noise” - it doesn’t say anything about singing on key. I don’t think anyone should ever be discouraged from singing at Mass just because they can’t hold a tune.
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Why on earth not? People who can’t carry a tune usually sound absolutely awful, and can put off those who can sing.

Surely, it is a virtue to keep silent when you can’t sing.
 
I hope not! There are a lot of reasons why someone might not sing. I usually do, but sometimes I don’t know the song and only the lyrics are in the hymnal, or like this morning my throat was super dry and I could hardly talk, let alone sing!

But I do have to say that I personally don’t mind hearing people who can’t carry a tune. I love it when everyone around me sings, it just reminds me of our unity and also makes me feel less awkward than when I’m one of the few people singing. If you want to sing, then just sing 🙂 I remember a priest saying that God gave us our voices, so even if it’s bad, he still would love to hear it!
 
Joan_M said:
Why on earth not? People who can’t carry a tune usually sound absolutely awful, and can put off those who can sing.

Surely, it is a virtue to keep silent when you can’t sing.
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I do not think that is the point, though I doubt you will find this listed anywhere as a Christian virtue. The point is that we should not be hushing others for their lack of pitch, and even that was rather tongue in cheek.
 
Joan_M said:
Why on earth not? People who can’t carry a tune usually sound absolutely awful, and can put off those who can sing.

Surely, it is a virtue to keep silent when you can’t sing.
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The only way to learn to sing is to sing. But if you tell people they can’t sing, or if you tell them not to sing, then they’ll never try again - and they’ll never experience the joy that comes from singing praise to God.

So, even if you think your neighbor can’t sing very well, leave him alone and let him sing. Don’t tell him how awful he is - let him enjoy singing to God his Creator. God hears beautiful music when it’s sung with joy, even if it’s off-key - and that’s who we’re singing for, right? Not for human praise. And over time, he will improve. Or you’ll get used to him. And it won’t matter any more.

I’m not saying that people who can’t sing should be invited to join the Choir - that’s a whole different thing. But someone singing from his pew should not be discouraged from doing so.
 
Back to the OP:
Inego_de_Loyola said:
From the Catechism of Pope St.Pius X:
The Way to Assist at Mass

15 Q. What is required in order to assist at Holy Mass well and profitably?
A. To assist at Holy Mass well and profitably two things are necessary: (1) Modesty of person and (2) Devotion of heart.

16 Q. In what does modesty of person consist?
A. Modesty of person consists especially in being modestly dressed, in observing silence and recollection and, as far as possible, in remaining kneeling, except during the time of the two Gospels which are heard standing.

17 Q. In hearing Holy Mass which is the best way to practise true devotion?
A. In hearing Holy Mass the best way to practise true devotion is the following: (1) From the very beginning to unite our intention with that of the priest, offering the Holy Sacrifice to God for the ends for which it was instituted. (2) To accompany the priest in each prayer and action of the Sacrifice. (3) To meditate on the passion and death of Jesus Christ And to heartily detest our sins, which have been the cause of them. (4) To go to Communion, or at least to make a spiritual Communion while the priest communicates.

18 Q. What is spiritual Communion?
A. Spiritual Communion is a great desire to be united sacramentally with Jesus Christ. saying, for example: “My Lord Jesus Christ, I desire with my whole heart to be united with Thee now and forever;” and then make the same acts that are to be made before and after sacramental Communion.

19 Q. Does the recitation of the Rosary or other prayers during Mass prevent us from hearing it with profit?
A. The recitation of the Rosary and other prayers during Mass does not prevent us from hearing it with profit, provided we try As far as possible to follow the parts of the Holy Sacrifice.

20 Q. Is it advisable to pray for others while assisting at Mass?
A. Yes it is advisable to pray for others while assisting at Mass; nay more, the time of Holy Mass is the most suitable of all times to pray for the living and the dead.

21 Q. What should we do after Mass?
A. After Mass we should give God thanks for having allowed us to assist at this great Sacrifice, and we should ask pardon for All the faults we may have committed while assisting at it.
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I feel the same as the OP. At the parish my family attends (and which I also attend, only out of deference to my parents) the laity is belabored with OCP “hymns” and Marty Haugen clap-trap.

Today we had “Somebody’s Knockin’” but…wait for it: with organ accompaniment. I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry.

I cringe every time I see that we are singing a song from the 1960s to current times.

I will sing at Mass when the music is Catholic…I will not settle for less.

If anything, I think I can stand in solidarity with the OP
 
Joan_M said:
Why on earth not? People who can’t carry a tune usually sound absolutely awful, and can put off those who can sing.

Surely, it is a virtue to keep silent when you can’t sing.
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I’m rather lacking in virtue then 🙂 I love to sing at mass, and I’ll be the first to admit I can’t carry a tune in a bucket. I do abide by the “rule” I was taught - to sing loud enough to hear myself and soft enough I can hear all those around me. So I would rather be next to a “bad” singer than a “non” singer because it helps me adjust my volume. I certainly believe that singing is not required to participate in the Mass.

However, I was never more thrilled than when our music ministers (a husband/wife team) explained that we (the people attending mass) were the “congregational choir” and thus should sing to the best of our ability (aka participate). We have a regular choir that does a great job and often does songs where we (the congregational choir) are silent and meditative in addition to the opening and closing hymns that both choirs sing. There are also often masses where our one regular choir is not present, and it’s up to the cantor and the congregational choir to “carry the load” so to speak. I love being part of a choir. And I love our music ministers - they work so hard to help make liturgy beautiful and meaningful.

So sing, do not sing, sing off key - to me it is all part of our being one body though each unique in their gifts, thoughts, and abilities 🙂
 
NickD said:
I feel the same as the OP. At the parish my family attends (and which I also attend, only out of deference to my parents) the laity is belabored with OCP “hymns” and Marty Haugen clap-trap.

Today we had “Somebody’s Knockin’” but…wait for it: with organ accompaniment. I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry.

I cringe every time I see that we are singing a song from the 1960s to current times.

I will sing at Mass when the music is Catholic…I will not settle for less.

If anything, I think I can stand in solidarity with the OP
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Heeheehee…:whistle:

(I sense a thread-closing in the not-so-distant future.)
 
NickD said:
Today we had “Somebody’s Knockin’” but…wait for it: with organ accompaniment. I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry.

I cringe every time I see that we are singing a song from the 1960s to current times.
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Sad, not only from a sacred music perspective, but simply from a musical perspective.
 
I don’t sing at mass if I go early because I’m too grouchy then…this was a recent discovery.
 
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