MERGED: If I don't sing, have I failed to participate in the Mass?/Singing at Mass

[Edmundus1581]

We can go on all day about that. Jesus also said to pluck out your eye. The church is there to interpret the bible for us. We aren’t protestants.

And the church has said clearly through her traditions of the Roman Rite, her popes (JPII, I posted above) and other documents that there’s nothing wrong with not singing.

Now that I’ve shown the current applicable instruction for the Roman Rite, do you believe that we should all observe it?

With reference to JPII’s commendation of “listening” to the chants and music, he is obviously referring to the chants and music which are performed by choir of cantor without the congregation. He is saying that when the choir is singing we should listen attentively.

 

[frjohnmaryt]

Sometimes the music looks too difficult to attempt a cappella, other times it may be a song that I hate. If I don’t sing the hymns selected, have I failed to participate fully in the Mass?

If you want to fully participate in the Mass as everyone encouraged and expected to do so, sing along with the congregation. Singing is praise the Lord. St Augustine says “The one who sings prays twice.”

 

[superamazingman]

Singing is praise the Lord.

So is silent meditation.

 

[frjohnmaryt]

If you want to fully participate in the Mass, sing along with the congregation. All the faithful are expected and encouraged to fully involve in the mystery of Christ love. St Augustine says, “The one who sings prays twice.” :harp:

 

[centurionguard]

My two cents.:twocents:

To actively participate in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass requires that you focus closely upon the Mass itself and what is happening on the altar and to do so prayerfully. To sing is not an absolute requirement. In years gone by some could actively participate via the Rosary as it helped them to remain close to God and concentrate upon what was happening on the altar.

There are times when I find the music to be a distraction from my participation. (Such as a communion hymn that interferes with my concentration.)

I have more cents but I don’t want to begin to ramble …

Totally agree. Best :twocents:I’ve seen. I lost my singing voice years ago due to illness and I used to sing bass for years in our parish four part choir. While in the congregation I don’t like to impose myself on anyone adding distraction. That amongst several other reasons in addition to what you brought up is the reason why I choose not to sing.

Peace
Chris

 

[The_Reginator]

Totally agree. Best :twocents:I’ve seen. I lost my singing voice years ago due to illness and **I used to sing bass **for years in our parish four part choir. While in the congregation I don’t like to impose myself on anyone adding distraction. That amongst several other reasons in addition to what you brought up is the reason why I choose not to sing.

Peace
Chris

Ouch!!!

I love music and singing. To loose my voice (such as it is) would be a real cross to bear. But that’s one reason we’re here – to bear our cross.

God be with you Chris.

 

[ProVobis]

To actively participate in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass requires that you focus closely upon the Mass itself and what is happening on the altar and to do so prayerfully.

God gave us two eyes, two ears, but only one mouth. Seems clear to me what is required.

 

[Edmundus1581]

If you want to fully participate in the Mass, sing along with the congregation. **All the faithful are expected and encouraged to fully involve in the mystery of Christ love. **St Augustine says, “The one who sings prays twice.” :harp:

:yup:

We are expected to be fully involved not just according to our individual preferences, even legitimate ones, but by forming one body. The body doesn’t form itself, just as a football team doesn’t form itself. It is built from each person choosing to participate in the common prayers, singing and silences, as well as they can and following the lead of the priest and ministers. If some choose not sing then they have disrupted the body, even if they be doing something more worthy in their own mind.

What was accepted in the Traditional Latin Mass is not relevant to what happens now, where there is an explicit emphasis not just on private participation and reverence, but on unity. (as I cited from the GIRM previously).

If you don’t like the music in your parish or Mass time then you should find another. If you can’t find another then put on your happiest face and join in the singing.

If you can’t sing or feel self conscious singing then I would encourage you to sing anyway, however if it is still too difficult then at least, please, try to look like you are singing. The priest, ministers and choir do notice “stony faces” which appear to objecting by their silence. I have seen just as many silent objectors to traditional hymns as to modern hymns.

 

[frjohnmaryt]

It is expected that the congregation sing in praise to God; that is everyone so that they can join in oneness in celebrating the mystery of God’s love through, with and in Christ; God’s full manifestation of his redemptive love. St Augustine encourages all Catholic in his inspired wisdom of praying in saying “The one who sings prays twice.” It is wonderful and so beautiful to sing in oneness expressing your love to God, in Christ through the Holy Spirit. That is what I do when I celebrate Mass. I sing along with the congregation, in one heart, one spirit in Christ. The Holy Spirit may empower you to sing even louder without knowing it. That is the grace in praising God in the Mass. :harp:

 

[centurionguard]

God gave us two eyes, two ears, but only one mouth. Seems clear to me what is required.

True in a sense but not everyone has a “gift” to sing. Numerous people can appreciate music implicitly. However; its hard to break the ice to someone who is miserably tone deaf.
I certainly wouldn’t have the heart to do so in a parish. I’m a little more humble than that.

However; such task and responsibility tactfully belongs to a choir director.

I almost never have the desire to watch over-commercialized American Idol or X Factor. Yet in the few times having watched it I’m almost set beside myself seeing how many people think they have a superior voice and are tone deaf and worse won’t admit it to themselves. This is prevalent everywhere even in Churches. I suppose we can give them an A for trying.

If I was tone deaf I’d want to seriously know about it. I know I can’t sing now. Have I failed to participate. In a Word…No. It’s an optional choice if a parishioner sings or not. Theirs no guilt incurred if a parishioner doesn’t sing.

Peace
Chris

 

[Edmundus1581]

True in a sense but not everyone has a “gift” to sing. Numerous people can appreciate music implicitly. However; its hard to break the ice to someone who is miserably tone deaf.
I certainly wouldn’t have the heart to do so in a parish. I’m a little more humble than that.
.
.
.
If I was tone deaf I’d want to seriously know about it. I know I can’t sing now. Have I failed to participate. In a Word…No. It’s an optional choice if a parishioner sings or not. Theirs no guilt incurred if a parishioner doesn’t sing.

Peace
Chris

As with all religious obligations (Sunday Mass, confession, prayers, etc…) we are not required to do what is physically impossible, or which causes serious disturbance to others, however such cases are exceptions and do not obviate the rule.

In the Roman Rite the whole congregation are instructed to “form one body… in the singing” (GIRM #96), which means, obviously, that all should sing together or, if unable to, then contribute as well as they can with their voices and gestures.

I make no criticism of any person who does not sing, except where by their gestures they are visibly objecting. However I am opposing those who argue that such is an option for everyone and is in accord with liturgical principles.

II. The Functions of the People of God

1. In the celebration of Mass the faithful form a holy people, a people of God’s own possession and a royal Priesthood, so that they may give thanks to God and offer the unblemished sacrificial Victim not only by means of the hands of the Priest but also together with him and so that they may learn to offer their very selves.[82] They should, moreover, take care to show this by their deep religious sense and their charity toward brothers and sisters who participate with them in the same celebration.

**They are consequently to avoid any appearance of singularity or division, keeping in mind that they have only one Father in heaven and that hence are all brothers or sisters one to the other.
**
96. **Moreover, they are to form one body, **whether in hearing the Word of God, or in taking part in the prayers and in the singing, or above all by the common offering of the Sacrifice and by participating together at the Lord’s table. This unity is beautifully apparent from the gestures and bodily postures observed together by the faithful.

1. The faithful, moreover, should not refuse to serve the People of God in gladness whenever they are asked to perform some particular service or function in the celebration.

[End of Section II]

[GIRM]

 

[frjohnmaryt]

So is silent meditation.

Singing is praising the Lord. There are times of silent during the Mass. Silent or silence is definitely reflection or meditation. You are not far from the Kingdom.

 

[frjohnmaryt]

True in a sense but not everyone has a “gift” to sing. Numerous people can appreciate music implicitly. However; its hard to break the ice to someone who is miserably tone deaf.
I certainly wouldn’t have the heart to do so in a parish. I’m a little more humble than that.

However; such task and responsibility tactfully belongs to a choir director.

I almost never have the desire to watch over-commercialized American Idol or X Factor. Yet in the few times having watched it I’m almost set beside myself seeing how many people think they have a superior voice and are tone deaf and worse won’t admit it to themselves. This is prevalent everywhere even in Churches. I suppose we can give them an A for trying.

If I was tone deaf I’d want to seriously know about it. I know I can’t sing now. Have I failed to participate. In a Word…No. It’s an optional choice if a parishioner sings or not. Theirs no guilt incurred if a parishioner doesn’t sing.

Peace
Chris

“True in a sense but not everyone has a “gift” to sing. Numerous people can appreciate music implicitly.”
Yes you have the right to say that which is correct to some. But singing in the Mass does not require someone gifted in singing. If you are not a good singer, God will be happy and smile on you. I don’t like singing as some people comment on singing in social gathering like drinking yagona. I am not a good singer either, but after a few years of singing with the congregation at Mass, people start to smile with joy when we meet again in our social gathering. I think people need to contemplate on the meaning of the Mass so they can enjoy the beauty of singing to God and for God.

 

[Sarabande]

Sometimes the music looks too difficult to attempt a cappella, other times it may be a song that I hate. If I don’t sing the hymns selected, have I failed to participate fully in the Mass?

It depends on why you are not singing. Are you doing it to prove some point, thus taking your focus off of God and the mass? If so, you are probably not participating fully. If you are not singing because of the difficulty of the song or because you don’t feel like singing, yet have still placed all of your heart and soul into the mass and into focusing on God, then I personally believe that you are fully participating.

I love to sing… I mean REALLY LOVE to sing. It’s part of every fiber of my being. It fulfills me spiritually. I love it so much that I make a living from it, albeit a rather modest one. That said, even I will sometimes need to not sing when I’m at mass. Sometimes I need to just meditate on the words and music, allowing it to sink into my soul. I know that I am still fully participating even when I’m not singing. I’m singing with them in my soul. Although, I don’t get to do that often because I’m cantoring most Sundays.

Now, it’s true that some parishes do really awful music and it can be difficult to sing to either because of the music itself or poor musicianship or cantors leading the hymn. If I feel like I can get a poorly trained cantor’s voice out of my head while I’m singing, it’s not too difficult to just get past it. BUT you need strong singers in the congregation to do that, and not all congregations have that. Since I read music, I will sing most hymns. It’s also because I believe that if I can make myself sing the hymns I don’t like while I’m cantoring, then I can certainly do it when in the pews. That said, there have been a couple hymns where I just couldn’t sing they were so awful. I felt like I was mocking God while singing, so I had to stop.

The predicament I often find myself in while in the pews is figuring out how much I should sing out. As a classically trained singer, my voice is such that it almost always stands out in the congregation. When the congregation sings robustly and fully, I don’t have a problem singing with full voice. But when it is congregation whose singing is weak or near to nothing, I don’t want to sing with full voice because I don’t want people to think I’m showing off or to just bring any unwanted attention on myself. I then always end up singing in a whisper voice and that just kills me because I feel like it is only a part of my soul singing. I would rather not be singing at all when I have to be that way. Every once in a while, I can feel a congregation out and when it seems that the congregation would benefit from a stronger voice in the pews, I will sing out more and then that prompts others around me to sing out and thus I don’t become a solo voice in the pews. (I’ve actually had people thank me for doing that so that the rest of the people felt brave enough to sing.) But then other times, even when I’m in a congregation that sings out really well with the organ full-blast, I’ll have people sitting in front of me turn to me after mass to compliment my voice. As humbling and touching as that is, it is also very embarrassing because people had noticed my voice which is not what I wanted, while in the pews. When you’re cantoring it can’t be helped and I know that people appreciate someone up there who can read music, do it right and lead the congregation, as well as sing the psalms and other music well to add to the prayer. So that is the conundrum I often find myself in when in the congregation… to sing out or not to sing out, that is the question. If I don’t sing out, is it causing me to not fully participate due to just singing half-heartedly? But, if I do sing out does it make me stand out too much or cause people to think I’m showing off? Is it sometimes better to just not sing, as much as that would kill me?

 

[ProVobis]

What was accepted in the Traditional Latin Mass is not relevant to what happens now,

Actually there was music in the TLM. Everyone knew Holy God, We Praise Thy Name, Come Holy Ghost, Immaculate Mary, and so on. Priest would start out and everyone followed, with or without the organ. Check out St. Basil’s Hymnal, 1958. Except you won’t find “Amazing Grace” in there.

 

[Sarabande]

For the record - I LOVE hearing everyone sing. Doesn’t matter how poor their voices are or even how out of tune. I think there is something beautiful in hearing a congregation made up of all different kinds of voices singing the responses or hymns. It’s a different story when it comes to cantors. If a cantor can’t sing and is also using the microphone so that his/her voice is sounding over the rest of the congregation, that is not good. But people in the congregation can’t tell a cantor that he/she can’t sing. That is up to the priest or music director to do that. Even then, if the cantor is a volunteer (which he/she most likely is as most parishes do not pay their cantors) it’s very difficult to do that. Although many times congregations don’t sing over the cantor, I think they should. Any cantor, good or bad, really should be singing away from the mic anyway and only use it when needed. Unfortunately, most people don’t think that way.

 

[The_Reginator]

Since we’re on the topic of singing hymns during Mass I’d like to get a few thoughts on a problem I’ve been having for some years. It seems to be getting worse lately as my ideas become better formed.

I was raised an Anglican. Anglicans really sing.
When I was young I noticed that it was only a few old codgers and ‘cool’ teenagers that wouldn’t sing loudly.
We all stayed in the pew until the last note of the last hymn was finished.
The hymns were usually majestic. Very appropriate when gathered to praise God communally.Now the Catholic parish I assist at tends to use a lot of ‘folksy’ tunes, especially anything Gaelic. The words are often a little blah which discourages me from wanting to participate in the singing.
My big problem:
Songs about us rather than hymns to God. I especially dislike “Gather us in” which tends to be the -]processional/-], sorry, the ‘gathering song’ for 50%+ of our Sunday Masses.
I do not even pretend to sing as I find this to be so terribly out of place.
I’d like suggestions of how to handle ‘songs’ that are objectionable. If I really feel that a song is not at all appropriate should I be a hypocrite and pretend to sing anyways?

 

[Edmundus1581]

Actually there was music in the TLM. Everyone knew Holy God, We Praise Thy Name, Come Holy Ghost, Immaculate Mary, and so on. Priest would start out and everyone followed, with or without the organ. Check out St. Basil’s Hymnal, 1958. Except you won’t find “Amazing Grace” in there.

“**everyone **followed”

I have seen that the music is usually best when there is one person (priest or commentator) having to lead the congregation a capella, by force of circumstances. They then have to pick a familiar hymn, and most people join in. The trouble with regular choirs and cantors is that they think they have to do something interesting and/or different. Of course, best best is a choir which actually knows what they are doing, but such are few and far between.

When I joined the Church in 1981 there were still congregations which sang the hymns you mentioned, a capella. Even by 1985 it had largely died out though. I miss them badly.

 

[Edmundus1581]

Since we’re on the topic of singing hymns during Mass I’d like to get a few thoughts on a problem I’ve been having for some years. It seems to be getting worse lately as my ideas become better formed.

I was raised an Anglican. Anglicans really sing.
When I was young I noticed that it was only a few old codgers and ‘cool’ teenagers that wouldn’t sing loudly.

My big problem:
Songs about us rather than hymns to God. I especially dislike “Gather us in” which tends to be the -]processional/-], sorry, the ‘gathering song’ for 50%+ of our Sunday Masses.
I do not even pretend to sing as I find this to be so terribly out of place.
I’d like suggestions of how to handle ‘songs’ that are objectionable. If I really feel that a song is not at all appropriate should I be a hypocrite and pretend to sing anyways?

Greetings Mr Reginator,

I will highlight the line which you minimised!

When I was young I noticed that it was only a few old codgers and ‘cool’ teenagers that wouldn’t sing loudly.

When people don’t sing others notice, and join them! Not singing is a statement.

It’s interesting the people you noticed not singing: old codgers, and cool teenagers. Dissent in the congregation usually centres around these two groups.

Fortunately, the Catholic Church in her wisdom has addressed this indirectly. While she has instructions to the ministers in how to select music, in her instructions to the faithful she has emphasised that we are to* form one body*, so that, regardless of what is selected, we are always serving the liturgy and praising God by singing it as one. If the ministers have failed in their duty, we succeed in ours by singing what they have selected!

The church doesn’t ask us to show our better judgement by not singing.

I am not sure of this, but I suspect that the music ministers have delegated authority from the priest, so their selection is received as if it were from him, and thus from the Church. In practice, things are different. There’s a joke: “What’s the difference between a liturgist and a terrorist? Answer: you can argue with a terrorist”.

Your particular concerns and trials are shared by many. Converts from good musical traditions (I was an Anglican myself) can find it particularly frustrating. If “Bind us together” and gaelic tunes are the worst you suffer, then cheer up - things could get worse!

My advice then is to sing along, and not just with a strained look, but joyfully. You may eventually find yourself enjoying it.

If you really want to make changes at the parish, then I suggest you do it slowly, by volunteering for various jobs and committees. That’s what I’ve done. I haven’t been able to make any big changes yet, but I was able to object to one particularly silly liturgical idea, and as a member of the choir I was able to vote for “Veni, veni, Emmanuel” when the choir mistress didn’t want if for Advent! Little steps…

Best wishes,

Edmundus

 

[Elizium23]

Edmundus has this discussion well in hand, and in the past I have vigorously argued the same point of view, but I will put in my two cents for now.

It is not participation if you remain silent when the assembly is expected to be making a response or singing a hymn. The silence of participation refers to the times when we should be listening and reflecting on the parts said by others in the liturgy. For example, the readings. We should not be reciting the Scriptural readings along with the lector and the deacon, we should be respectfully silent as we absorb the meaning and symbolism of the readings. We should also be actively silent during the homily, unless of course the priest demands some interaction from us: he could ask a question or for a show of hands. Otherwise we are required to cede the floor to him as he teaches us the Word. Likewise, the presidential prayers such as the Eucharistic Prayer. No lay person should be “participating” by reciting the words proper to the priest. It is his sacrifice and his prayer and we are actively participating by joining our hearts and minds to his prayer in silence.

In contrast, we must, as Edmundus points out, be of one heart and mind when verbal participation is called for. What would the Mass be if the people conspired to remain silent during the Creed? Or the Kyrie Eleison? Would an observer not see that we are being disrespectful to the presider and to God, and perhaps not so faithful as we claim if we cannot be bothered to recite the words proper to our liturgical role? What kind of Mass would we have if the priest refused to recite the Eucharistic Prayer? It is not optional to say the responses and it is not optional to sing when words and/or music have been provided to us and the cantor or choir is striving to lead us in prayerful song.

It is disrespectful and uncharitable to God for us to refuse to join others in song. It is also disrespectful to the priest and to the musicians who work hard and put our blood, sweat and tears into the ministry of the Word to ensure that God is glorified when the people sing together. The function of music in the liturgy is not mere entertainment or profane enjoyment subject to our tastes and whims. Music serves a threefold purpose: it is pastoral, liturgical, and evangelical. By singing hymns we not only glorify God but we teach each other in catechesis when hymns are rooted in Scripture and doctrine. We also spread the Gospel by repetition of phrases that tell of God and His good works. Why any good Catholic would refuse to glorify God or refuse to spread His Gospel message is truly beyond me. It does not make sense that anyone should suggest that an integral part of the liturgy should be ripped apart and made optional so that anyone who got up on the wrong side of the bed can freely refuse to take part without any repercussions.

Scripture and Tradition and the binding liturgical documents are all very clear that singing is an integral part of the liturgy that has true benefits for the faithful and must be encouraged and fostered in all the people of God. Those who say that silence is acceptable are cherry-picking and prooftexting to twist the mind of the Church into something that she does not intend. Those of you who claim to sing badly should put some effort into learning. Singing well has little to do with talent and is all about applying yourself to the technical details. It can easily be taught and learned by almost anyone without a disability. Don’t sell yourself short, and don’t disappoint God, who has commanded us to make a joyful noise.