MERGED: "Musical abuse" at Mass tonight/Rock/Contemporary

[Cat]

Quick history:
Born 1950. Raised a Catholic (Polish/Check/Hungarian Masses.) Left Church at 18.Came back at 35, Whew! I look forward to Mass every week. 9:00AM Mass at Blessed Sacrament.

I am a veteran of 25 plus years of what I refer to as the (hunky-dunky) or hootenanny Mass. If that sounds like a criticism, it is. I would close my eyes during mass and picture someone doing an Irish jig or worse yet an interpretive veil dance in front of the altar. And on special occasions I would be treated to a Teen Mass (need I say more?) Even my kids would cringe at these Masses.

Within the past year, the hunky-dunky Mass has given way to something more sinister, the Hep-Cat Mass. The music played at this Mass is considered by someone to be contemporary. I think that it is more in line with the Cedar Creek entertainment church down the street.

2000 plus years of wonderful music stretching from the middle-ages though the Renaissance, into the 18th and 19th centuries and I must include the hymns from Appalachia. And all of this culminating with what I’ve just described.

So, there I’ve said it. I am truly sorry if I have offended anyone. I hope to contribute amore positive outlook in future entries but I saw the subject, read the comments and just had to vent. Thanks.

Hopefully, since you can dish it out, you can take it, too. I hope my post will galvanize you into action.

So you left the Church at age 18, and came back almost 20 years later…and expected that the entire Church would just stop and wait for you and leave everything the same all those years until You, BigJag, decided to return?

Isn’t that kind of like leaving your childhood home, and then coming back 20 years later and getting mad at your parents because they moved the furniture around?

Perhaps if you had stuck around the Church during your young, prime years, you would have been able to participate in the musical evolution of the Mass and influence the Church towards more traditional music. But you left and others filled in for you and these faithful parishioners took the Church in a different direction that fit the needs of the people who remained in the Church during those years when you were not to be found.

Isn’t it just possible that because they stuck with the Church and didn’t give up and continued attending the Mass regularly and receiving the Sacraments and practicing the Precepts of the Church, that perhaps the Holy Spirit was working through them, and that it is because of HIS leading in their faithful and hard-working lives that Mass music changed directions over the years while you were gone?

Why are people who walk away from the Church so quick to dismiss the work of others who remained faithful and stayed in the Church? You weren’t there. You missed it all!

It’s as if you assume that while you were gone, some “meanies” broke into the Church and stole all YOUR music and traditions. No, that’s not what happened at all. After you departed, the Holy Spirit didn’t stop and wait for you. He continued working through the faithful who remained in the Church, and through them, brought about changes that resulted in a stronger Church, not a weaker Church.

Of course it’s different than what you grew up with. The times are different. It makes sense that the Holy Spirit, the “Mighty Wind” that blew through the Upper Room, would light some “tongues of fire” and bring about changes that would make the Church more effective in evangelization.

Considering that the work you are criticizing was brought about by the Holy Spirit working through the faithful, I suggest that you (and others) stop calling names.

Name-calling is a secular innovation, made popular on many television shows where the writers create fast, sharp exchanges of insults back and forth between the characters. It’s kind of funny on TV, but not in real life. In real life, name-calling hurts.

When you create insulting names like “Hep-Cat Mass” for things you do not personally like, you close doors and alienate people (like me). Those “Hep Cats” that you are deriding are your brothers and sisters in Christ, the ones who are actually doing the work of presenting the Mass music!

(continued next post)

 

[Cat]

(continued from last post)

Think about this, BigJag–what do you want to happen? You want more traditional music in the Mass, right? That’s a worthy goal. So think about this–what is the BEST way for you to bring about this goal?

Here’s an idea–after the next “Hep Cat Mass” that you attend, try walking up to the musicians and saying, “Hi, Hep Cats!” in the same tone as your post above, and observe how they react and whether or not your approach brings about your goal–the change in Mass music that you desire.

I think you will find that the “insult” approach doesn’t bring about your goal of more traditional music in the Mass.

You also imply by your tone that you know more than the priest who allows the modern styles in his parish Masses. How can you respect your priest when you are sitting there thinking bad things about the Mass that he is in charge of?

So once again, think this through…what is the best way to achieve your goal? Perhaps rather than sitting the pews and feeling superior about your musical tastes and thinking up clever-sounding names, why not make a lunch appointment with your priest and talk all this over with him?

And while you’re at it, call the music director of your parish and invite him/her out for coffee, too (or just make an appointment at the parish office if the director is of the opposite sex). Again, think it through–always keep in mind your GOAL of bringing more traditional music back to your Masses.

Discuss with your music director, without rancor, the music in your parish, and ask what YOU can do to facilitate more traditional music in the parish.

Be quick to hear, slow to speak, and slow to anger, and be quick to do, not just talk.

I suggest joining the choir and working within the music community of your parish to gradually create a climate where the more traditional music is done more often. Perhaps you can offer to pay for a workshop in Gregorian chant, or perhaps you can fund a pipe organ concert (work through the AGO to procure an organist who gives concerts).

I personally think that when people sit out in the congregation and stew over various issues (music, dress of the other people, physical postures, Communion reception, etc.), that this creates a massive “negative energy” in the parish and quenches the work of the Holy Spirit. Instead of sitting and stewing and accomplishing nothing, get up and do some charitable work to bring about change.

I hope that this post is helpful to you and others. Everything I wrote I direct to myself as well. I have been guilty in the past of a critical spirit, and have tried to rid myself of this tendency by remembering that if I am not willing to work to bring about change, then I have no right to criticize those who ARE working.

 

[pnewton]

I hope that this post is helpful to you and others. Everything I wrote I direct to myself as well. I have been guilty in the past of a critical spirit, and have tried to rid myself of this tendency by remembering that if I am not willing to work to bring about change, then I have no right to criticize those who ARE working.

Not bad for a hep-cat. The thing here I never understand is those who criticize a Mass that they do not attend and in a parish they have no understanding of. That is almost as bad as complaining and doing nothing to help. Fortunately, I never did worry about what people here think. I only worry what the Church teaches, what my bishop and priest think, and what my parish thinks.

 

[RDB]

My wife and I just attended Mass at a parish that we haven’t been to, and had to leave before communion because the music was so loud it gave my wife a headache. The music style was also nothing we are used to…very “hip” and showy, and for anyone over 20 years old, impossible to sing. It reminded me of the “praise” music heard on Christian radio. Nothing wrong with that if you’re driving your car, but during Mass is something else entirely. It seemed irreverent and self serving, and more than distracting.

I told my wife that if our parish ever went “hip”, we’d have to find another one, regardless of how far away from home, that focused on the purpose of Mass rather than the entertainment value.

I’ve only been a Catholic for about a year, and one of things that drew me to the faith to begin with was the tradition, sincerity and reverence of the Eucharistic mass. Had I visited this parish during my curiosity phase, I’d have never gone back.

 

[opus101]

My wife and I just attended Mass at a parish that we haven’t been to, and had to leave before communion because the music was so loud it gave my wife a headache. The music style was also nothing we are used to…very “hip” and showy, and for anyone over 20 years old, impossible to sing. It reminded me of the “praise” music heard on Christian radio. Nothing wrong with that if you’re driving your car, but during Mass is something else entirely. It seemed irreverent and self serving, and more than distracting.

I told my wife that if our parish ever went “hip”, we’d have to find another one, regardless of how far away from home, that focused on the purpose of Mass rather than the entertainment value.

I’ve only been a Catholic for about a year, and one of things that drew me to the faith to begin with was the tradition, sincerity and reverence of the Eucharistic mass. Had I visited this parish during my curiosity phase, I’d have never gone back.

 

[opus101]

Check out the thread by YoungTrad on Archbishop Sample’s Letter on Music.

 

[Jimmygill88]

I think it was Pius X who ‘reintroduced’ the Gregorian Chant for the Mass owing to his distate for the Mass being sung to the accompaniment of sundry (poorly played) instruments and use of amateur ‘high opera’ singers. So the use of Plainsong is a fairly recent reintroduction. The ultimate confusion for a traditionalist would be caused by the Missa Luba I think. A full on Pius V Tridentine Mass WITH DRUMS. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missa_Luba en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missa_Luba. Drumming at Mass probably predates any other for of music. If the music is poor it may be that the choir/orchestra is simply composed of parishioners rather than professional musicians. Having to leave mass with a headache caused by music is probably a bit of an exaggerated response. I do however understand how some music can grate on ones nerves quite badly. I personally cannot stand the ‘performances’ that I have witnessed that seem to either focus on a singer or that seems to entertain the congregation which I suggest are ego boosting distractions from God. But I think the music some of us consider traditional is relatively recent

 

[bluemug]

Loud hip hop “worldly” band causes headache. The leader seems to say “look at me” .
Very distracting, and mocking.
Scripture says that Jesus went to quiet places to pray.
Maybe I don’t need to go to SundayMass, so I don’t lose THE PEACE. Very sad

 

[Cat]

Loud hip hop “worldly” band causes headache. The leader seems to say “look at me” .
Very distracting, and mocking.
Scripture says that Jesus went to quiet places to pray.
Maybe I don’t need to go to SundayMass, so I don’t lose THE PEACE. Very sad

I would say that rather than limiting our peace to quiet places, you and all the rest of us need to learn how to find peace in any situation, quiet or loud.

If the only place where you can find the peace of Christ is a quiet place, then you will not have much peace during your life. And that’s very sad.

Yes, Christ went away to quiet places to pray and find refreshment for His Soul. But don’t you believe He also prayed during the “noisy” times in His Life; e.g., the Triumphal Entry in Jerusalem, or during His trial and crucifixion?

Also, please keep in mind that prayer is not meant to bring us to a “peaceful state” or give us “feelings of being at peace.” It’s very possible that prayer will make you uncomfortable and restless, as the Holy Spirit convicts you of sin, gives you a burden for a specific ministry, or asks you to do a certain task for the Lord.

 

[RDB]

My wife’s headache, either caused or aggravated by the volume (or type) of the music is not an “exaggeration”. She is a 55 year old cradle Catholic, and leaving a Mass before communion isn’t something she has ever done, and she felt awful about it as did I.

For what it’s worth, I’m a drummer in a rock / blues band. I’m used to loud, and often poorly played music, and I can take just about anything in that regard. My wife has suffered through some of my gigging “adventures”, surrounded by loud obnoxious drunks and Marshall amplifiers turned up to 11. When she asks if we can leave the mass because she can’t take it any more, something is wrong. Perhaps her problem was physiological.

The point of my original post was that we experienced something at that parish that we had never experienced before, and it was anything but inspiring (to us), and completely distracting from what we attend mass for…the be with and share in the physical presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

Being a “new” Catholic, and preferring to participate in a manner to which my limited experience as such has made me feel at home and literally embraced by God, the emphasis on the performance of the music, the inability to follow the melody of the seemingly freestyle responsorials, and the overpowering volume of the choir / performers simply made our experience seem academic.

 

[Sarabande]

My wife’s headache, either caused or aggravated by the volume (or type) of the music is not an “exaggeration”. She is a 55 year old cradle Catholic, and leaving a Mass before communion isn’t something she has ever done, and she felt awful about it as did I.

For what it’s worth, I’m a drummer in a rock / blues band. I’m used to loud, and often poorly played music, and I can take just about anything in that regard. My wife has suffered through some of my gigging “adventures”, surrounded by loud obnoxious drunks and Marshall amplifiers turned up to 11. When she asks if we can leave the mass because she can’t take it any more, something is wrong. Perhaps her problem was physiological.

The point of my original post was that we experienced something at that parish that we had never experienced before, and it was anything but inspiring (to us), and completely distracting from what we attend mass for…the be with and share in the physical presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

Being a “new” Catholic, and preferring to participate in a manner to which my limited experience as such has made me feel at home and literally embraced by God, the emphasis on the performance of the music, the inability to follow the melody of the seemingly freestyle responsorials, and the overpowering volume of the choir / performers simply made our experience seem academic.

Firstly, what I say here is not meant to insult or offend anyone. I’m expressing what I was feeling with my past experiences.

As someone who used to experience similar physical responses at mass, I believe you when you say that your wife’s physical response is not exaggerated. For me, the physical response manifested itself into nausea and I would often have to leave mass for the ladies room because I was on the verge of vomiting. When I analyze it in the few years since being able to divert the physical responses, I think, for me, it had a lot to do with the volume of the amplified instruments and voices. It was over-the-top… something I would have expected at a rock concert, but not at mass, meaning if I was at a rock concert, club or balls my body and head would be physically prepared for it. I was used to folk-like music at mass and poor musicianship or just poor talent. I even was able to handle the music at LifeTeen masses when I was a kid. Even if I didn’t like the music or if there was lack of musicianship, it didn’t affect me physically, I think because it wasn’t overbearing in volume. They didn’t overamplify the music. I was able to go past it and focus on mass.

I will admit that I have only been to two rock concerts in my life - one Christian rock group and one secular rock group, although the secular group was more pop rather than rock. They were fun and the music was actually not as amplified as what I would hear at certain masses. I will also note that I I usually don’t like live bands at balls or wedding receptions because they tend to amplify too loudly and I often have to take quiet breaks outside of the ballroom or reception. If I have to yell at or speak loudly to the person next to me in order for him/her to hear me, it’s too loud. The other main issue for me is that my brother and I lost a lot of our hearing as children from multiple ear infections. We had to go through years of wearing ear tubes to correct our hearing and speech therapy to learn how to speak correctly. My brother even needed surgery when the doctor accidentally punctured one of his ear drums while taking out one of his ear tubes. Although my hearing is practically perfect today, my brother’s isn’t. I’m probably more protective of my hearing than most because I know and remember what it was like to not have it and what my brother had to go through. While I can take breaks from the loudness at concerts and such, it’s looked down upon to do that at mass (for obvious reasons).

Lastly, the overbearing vociferation felt like a spiritual and physical attack on me and (back then) I felt it was an attack on the Church. It overtook the mass, rather than work in harmony with it. So I think everything above contributed to that physical response.

Ok… so all of that said, if I do have to attend a mass with overamplification, I have since learned to get myself in an almost meditative state so that I don’t really hear the music anymore. Most of the time, I just make sure that I won’t attend those kinds of masses. More importantly, I’ve come to see that none of it is an attack on me spiritually or an attack on the Church. I don’t know if it is just a desensitizing, which probably isn’t, but I’ve met enough musicians of all persuasions to know that I think many are well-meaning and sincere, whether or not I agree with their beliefs in what is appropriate liturgical music.

(continued)

 

[Sarabande]

(continued from above)
In response to those who have this impression that the musicians are doing it all for an ego-trip: Yes, there are some who are there for the massaging of their egos. I’ve worked with a number of them (again of all musical persuasions). And there are some who will try to screw other musicians over, doing everything to take their jobs or push you out of your jobs, in which I’ve seen the aftermath done to a number of my colleagues and even to myself. I’ve more than once been disenchanted by what goes on behind closed doors in church music and have been tempted to leave it all together just so I wouldn’t have to go through that kind of malice and stress. BUT I can say that the majority of the church musicians do this with humble love of the Church and the music. They are sincere in what they do. Because I also do a lot of freelancing, I’ve been so blessed to meet such lovely church musicians. (There are also so many lovely musicians on CAF, which I feel blessed to have gotten to know at least on a forum level) These musicians don’t do it for their egos. They really believe that they are praising God (which, no doubt, they are even if the music may not be appropriate for mass) for God’s sake and not for their own. And some are doing it because no one else will… not because they want to be “performing” a show. They are just using the gifts He gave to them.

Another thing to be aware of, sometimes it’s not the “performing” musicians who agree with the music choices. I am sometimes asked to sing post communion meditations which I don’t personally agree are appropriate. Do I love to sing them? Yes. They are some of the greatest classical vocal masterworks and I sing them from my heart as a prayer to God. But just because they are spiritually inspiring, does not mean they are appropriate for the actual liturgy. There is enough judgment placed on me just because I am professionally trained, so anything more than just hymns (some people have even believed that singing chant WELL is an ego massage… believe me, I’ve heard it all) is considered an ego trip, even though it’s not even the case. As a paid musician on staff, I am required to do what my boss requires me to do, as long as I’m not asked to do anything immoral or foul. So, I think it is important to not be so quick to judge the musicians of why they are doing the music. Of course, if you know the people personally, that’s a different story and you aren’t making a blind judgment of them, but I think most people don’t know the church musicians personally. Yeah, we can dislike the music, the instruments, etc., but let’s not personally disparage the musicians when most of us don’t even know them.

Sorry about this being so long.

 

[RDB]

I’m not judging the musicians in any way, personally. I just don’t think that Mass, as I know it, is complemented by sensory overload.

 

[opus101]

Bishop Sample’s new pastoral letter gives an explanation of what “sacred music” means, as did the articles last year by Bishop Olmstead. After defining it for several pages, he writes:

“One often gets the impression that, as long as the written text of the music or song speaks about God, then it qualifies as “sacred music”. Given what has been articulated here, this is clearly not the case. As an example, The Gloria of the Mass set to Polka beat or in the style of rock music IS NOT SACRED MUSIC.”

Earlier in the letter, he quotes Sacrosanctum Concilium:
“[Sacred music] must be holy, and must, therefore, exclude all profanity not only in itself, but in the manner in which it is presented by those who execute it.”

Of course, “profanity” here does not refer to swear words or things that are evil or sinful
in themselves outside of the context of Mass, but to things that are not solely “sacred”, in other words, things that are secular in nature, and are generally percieved by others as such.

Using secular pop/rock-style music as a vessel to hold sacred words in the context of the Mass is an example of using that which is profane in a sacred context.

Sometimes people take issue with this because they have been given faulty example by others who are otherwise good and faithful Catholics (for instance, “How can this be wrong if this is the way they do it in Steubenville”, etc.) When I was at Steubenville in the early 90’s things were done at Mass in this manner, however, it is my understanding that things have changed greatly there over time, and that true sacred music is highly prized now.
This is not the only thing that the community there was greatly mistaken about… in those years, the Bishop had to step in to matters related to the Covenant Community. He had to correct many false notions that they had, and restore it to a genuinely Catholic group, as it had begun to be quite cult-like.

It is better to follow Rome than Steubenville, better to follow the Apostles than the leaders at Church musician workshops, etc. Ultimately, we are following Christ when we do this.

It is hard for some to believe that they have been led down the wrong path for so long…but it is the simple truth. There is no judgement here about their intentions - all are probably people of good will, and sincerely devout. But also, they are unfortunately poorly formed, misled and misinformed.

 

[opus101]

The National Catholic Register features a column today from the Catholic Stand by Jake Tawney. He has some great things to say on this topic:

“To assume that any style of music, so long as the lyrical content is religious, is appropriate for the Mass is to deny that music has objective meaning apart from the intentions of the author and performers. It is a deconstruction of the MEANING of music, not very different from the deconstruction of language that occurred during the last century. In a talk titled “The Language of Beauty”, Dr. Peter Kreeft reminds us that in the history of philosophy, deconstructionism is the final skepticism…”

and further:

“The deconstruction of language begins with the destruction of the highest language, and that is music; and the highest form of music THIS side of heaven is the music which brings us to THAT side of heaven: the music of the liturgy.”

 

[opus101]

I would say that rather than limiting our peace to quiet places, you and all the rest of us need to learn how to find peace in any situation, quiet or loud.

If the only place where you can find the peace of Christ is a quiet place, then you will not have much peace during your life. And that’s very sad.

Yes, Christ went away to quiet places to pray and find refreshment for His Soul. But don’t you believe He also prayed during the “noisy” times in His Life; e.g., the Triumphal Entry in Jerusalem, or during His trial and crucifixion?

Also, please keep in mind that prayer is not meant to bring us to a “peaceful state” or give us “feelings of being at peace.” It’s very possible that prayer will make you uncomfortable and restless, as the Holy Spirit convicts you of sin, gives you a burden for a specific ministry, or asks you to do a certain task for the Lord.

We’re not talking about prayer in general , Cat. The thread is specifically about “liturgical” prayer at the holy sacrifice of the Mass. There are clear directives about liturgical music and the type that is acceptable to use in the liturgy.

 

[DatGirl]

Oh my! That would make me nuts…drums in church! I don’t know what’s happening lately. It seems as if church is become less and less a place of quiet reverence. Last night, while attending Ash Wednesday mass, a couple sat in front us and loudly yapped all through the mass! It was quite distracting. Worse yet, all of a sudden we see this plume of smoke come up in front of the woman…we couldn’t figure out what she was doing! My husband and I looked at each other in disbelief. I was thinking maybe she had an inhaler for asthma or possibly a portable oxygen device, but my husband overheard the woman’s husband tell her to “put that away”…turns out it was one of those fake vaporizing cigarettes! In mass!

 

[Jimmygill88]

Some of the more saccharine ‘traditional hymns’ that we know and love have tunes that were popular in the Victorian music halls. And presumably were frowned on at the time.

 

[bluemug]

I will go to the nightclubs, the world, when I want to drink, dance, listen to the loud worldly music.
I will go to a quiet, solemn church, ( or my bedroom, if my church is too noisy), to talk to the Lord. God’s language is not English/French/Chinese/etc. God’s language is SILENCE. In SILENCE we hear the Lord.
May we all hear The Word more clearly in SILENCE during this Lent.

 

[dfp42]

There seems to be an ongoing competition between the music and the mass. Why that is, I don’t know. But I feel anyone’s pain when they have to deal with banging drums right after communion while they try to pray, then afterwards everyone claps and then father says let us pray… I’m been dealing with this for over a year off and on at a Church I attend. Seems to be the norm at so many churches now a days. I can’t help if wonder if this isn’t the direction VII wanted to take the mass. Seems like a musical play at times.