MERGED: "Musical abuse" at Mass tonight/Rock/Contemporary

[pnewton]

While the organ is to be accorded pride of place, other wind, stringed, or percussion instruments may be used in liturgical services in the dioceses of the United States of America, according to longstanding local usage, provided they are truly apt for sacred use or can be rendered apt.

That’s here on the Vatican Website:
GIRM.

Thank you. I will remember this. So now we know something current and official which supercedes both the 1903 and the 1967 documents.

 

[patrick457]

I sure wouldn’t be chanting, or singing at all.

This question pops up. I find it to be an incredibly illogical argument. Even the Exultet makes no sense to sing if one was at the foot to the cross. Easter Mass makes no sense. Christmas Mass makes no sense. It is not 2000 years ago at the cross. We cannot write off the “re” part of representation of Calvary. We are an Easter people. We have Mass on Sundays, not Friday, for a reason.

I should note that the Exsultet isn’t technically sung in the context of a Mass. We’re Easter people yes, but because of Good Friday.

 

[patrick457]

“I am the bread of life” is a beautiful song quoting almost word for word, the passage in the Gospel where Jesus says those words. The “I” does not refer to us, but to Jesus.

I’m not too concerned about it either (or at least, is less concerned now than I was way back). In the Mozarabic Rite before it got revised in the 90s, guess what the choir sings as the Peace is given (which here happens before the Illatio - corresponding with our Preface). Pacem meam do vobis, pacem meam commendo vobis. Non sicut mundus dat pacem do vobis. “My peace I give you, my peace I commit to you. Not as the world gives peace do I give to you.” Not to mention (within the Roman Rite itself) the Improperia - which is in the first person - and some of the Scripture quotes in the propers. But then again the issue might be more like ‘the choir singing it’ vs. ‘the congregation as a whole singing it’.

 

[pnewton]

I should note that the Exsultet isn’t technically sung in the context of a Mass.

Really??? Just out of curiosity then, when does “Mass” start on Holy Saturday.

I think the argument that Mass should be totally sober with no sense of celebration* if* Friday was the day of the week we have Mass rather than Sunday, and if the Church did not use words like “celebrate” in conjuction with Mass.

 

[Armor_of_Light]

David was not witnessing the Crucifixion of God’s son. We are. Not something to be hopping around for.

You aren’t focusing on praying if you are running up to the piano to join in rocking out and singing your favorite pop hit.

Citation please. Not doubting, just curious.

Thank you Lawrence (my name, too!) for reminding us of the SACRIFICE of the mass.

Celebrations are nice, but I think we get a little carried away sometimes eh?

 

[Sarabande]

The current cannon law that applies to the Mass in the USA is given in the GIRM:

…

While the organ is to be accorded pride of place,** other wind, stringed, or percussion instruments may be used in liturgical services in the dioceses of the United States of America, according to longstanding local usage, provided they are truly apt for sacred use or can be rendered apt.**

That’s here on the Vatican Website:
GIRM

That is the most current ruling on the subject. it is the General Instruction to the Roman Missal, and the quoted text is specific to the Americas

I think all of this is important to note, especially the last part of the bolded section, which is something I have believed in for a while. It is something the Church has required for centuries. The music or instruments must be “refined” or “rendered” appropriate for “sacred use”. As church musicians, I believe we need to be honest with ourselves in regards to that, asking the question of whether the music we are considering or the way we use our voices or instruments are “truly apt” or could be “rendered apt” for liturgy. I think sometimes many of us, myself included, will brush over that last part whether it’s because we are going by what the pastor or music director wants, what we personally like or what our particular parish wants. It can’t be helped, sometimes, especially if we want to keep our jobs.

My emotional side would LOVE to have Gounod’s “O Divine Redeemer” prayed at mass. The prayer is so expressive and the music to go along with it. It would bring me to tears and help me focus on the sacrifice of the mass. What makes it even more poignant is the fact that it was one of his last works before his death, he was a very devout and religious Catholic who considered the priesthood at one point, he wrote the words of the prayer and is considered one of his last expressions of his faith. If anything, this composer was one who really believed in what he was writing and was a Catholic to boot, so using this particular composition or any of his sacred works/masses should be employed more often. That said, when being honest with myself… is this particular piece truly apt for sacred use in terms of the liturgy and could I “render” my voice apt for sacred use with that particular piece, I would have to say, no. It has to be sung with all of the emotional and dramatic effects of what only an opera singer can achieve for that particular composition. I couldn’t use my “church” voice. Thus it would be too “secular” in sound, no matter how spiritually touched I am by it. And knowing how deeply religious Gounod was and very knowledgeable in liturgical music and renaissance polyphony having focused on it for part of his studies, he more than likely did not mean for this as a liturgical piece. (It was originally composed for voice and orchestra.) I’m actually going to be performing it for a Lenten concert coming up which I think is fine as it is not during a liturgy, but I personally would not feel comfortable singing it during the course of the mass, even as a meditation after the communion hymn.

 

[seekerz]

Would you sing this song if you were witnessing the Crucifixion of Our Lord? Because that is what is being presented to us. I know I wouldn’t.

Witnessing the Crucifixion? Most of those who were actually there probably had little clue of the significance of what was happening. On the other hand, we who come later, have all the information we need to joyfully praise Him for His sacrifice of love. The Mass is hardly a funeral.

 

[seekerz]

I sure wouldn’t be chanting, or singing at all.

This question pops up. I find it to be an incredibly illogical argument. Even the Exultet makes no sense to sing if one was at the foot to the cross. Easter Mass makes no sense. Christmas Mass makes no sense. It is not 2000 years ago at the cross. We cannot write off the “re” part of representation of Calvary. We are an Easter people. We have Mass on Sundays, not Friday, for a reason.

Exactly.

 

[seekerz]

Thank you Lawrence (my name, too!) for reminding us of the SACRIFICE of the mass.

Celebrations are nice, but I think we get a little carried away sometimes eh?

If I can’t get “carried away” celebrating the greatest sacrifice of love ever…then what can I get “carried away” with in life?

It’s almost like I’m hearing that we’re supposed to be mourning at Mass. Other than mourning over our sinfulness, my question is: Why?

 

[pnewton]

The Mass is hardly a funeral.

A funeral Mass is. Perhaps that is a solution for those who want such solemnity. Require all funeral Masses to be be celebrated (oops, I mean…er… happen on?) Sunday so that those that want such a somber mood can attend one for their obligation.

Here is an interesting point. If being at Mass is the same as being at Calvary, then why is it the one day in the year that we do not have any Mass is on Good Friday?

Wouldn’t that be the one day we must have Mass?

 

[Tigg]

My own feeling is that if the choir isn’t supposed to be using pianos, drums or any other instrument, it is the job of the pastor to straighten that out. If I were to complain about it, I’d be written off as some kind of uptight blowhard.

Herein lies the problem. Our former pastor would NEVER have allowed a drummer or mariachi band at Mass (he told us so), but it is welcomed by our current one.

That said, I don’t necessarily have a prejudice against any particular instrument, but I do think the choir needs to remember that they are there to support the Mass, not to perform. A drum solo, by its very nature, shouts, “Look at me! I’m a drummer!” I’d say the same for a sax solo, and I’m a sax player. That’s fine at a rock concert, but the Mass is not the place for it. Unfortunately, the choir at my parish has been known to try to turn the Mass into a performance opportunity.

Again this is the responsibility of the pastor not to allow a concert. In a former parish, professional singers and guests from the symphony orchestra were brought in for the Easter Vigil and Midnight Masses. An announcement was made beforehand that no applause would be allowed, and although the music was magnificent, it truly was for the sole Glory of God and attention was given to no individual, but to the action on the altar.

As a side note, I must say that I am sympathetic toward the choir directors - they will never satisfy individual taste in music and are destined to be constantly criticized.

 

[Tigg]

I was e-mailed a PP presentation by a CAF poster describing the 2002 subcommittee on music and the liturgy from the USCCB. They asked these questions:

Is there an obscured presentation of the centrality of Christ in salvation history and an insufficient emphasis on the divinity of Christ? Do our liturgical songs present Jesus as the culmination of the Old Testament and the fulfillment of God’s plan for our salvation? Is the indispensable place of the incarnation in the plan of salvation sufficiently presented? Is Jesus the Savior often overshadowed by Jesus the teacher, model, friend, and brother? Is there an appropriate balance? Is there an imbalance in our emphasis on the humanity or divinity of Jesus Christ? At times, can we detect a negative undertone in speaking of the divine nature of Christ, as if divinity is equated with being “distant and unreal.”

In their study they also state that in the current music trend only 35% of songs refer to Christ - not so good since the Eucharist, the source and summit of church life, contains the whole spiritual good of the Church.

 

[floresco]

The Council of Trent taught that the Mass is the same as Calvary, “only the manner of offering being changed” from bloody to unbloody. Similarly Vatican II (On the Liturgy #10) said that the Mass is the renewal of the new covenant.

A sacrifice as Catholics understand it (in contrast to some pagan concepts) has two elements: the outward sign and the interior dispositions. The outward sign is there to express and perhaps promote the interior. Without the interior it would be worthless. Hence God once complained through Isaiah 29:13: “This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.” We need to take care that we too do not descend into mere externalism, thinking it enough to just make the responses and sing etc.
…
Since the Mass has the same external sign, and the same interior dispositions on the part of Christ, we rightly call it a sacrifice, the continuation of Calvary. It does not need to earn redemption all over - that was done once for all (Hebrews 9:28) by His death. But since the Holiness of God loves everything that is good, and in good order, it pleases Him to have titles or reasons in place for what He will give (cf. Summa I. 19. 5. c). So it pleases Him to have the Mass provide the title for the distribution of what was once for all earned on Calvary.

ewtn.com/faith/teachings/euchb1.htm

The Mass is the same Sacrifice as the Sacrifice on Calvary re-presented in an unbloody manner. The music should support our belief in this important doctrine.

 

[pnewton]

If being at Mass is the same as being at Calvary, then why is it the one day in the year that we do not have any Mass is on Good Friday?

Wouldn’t that be the one day we must have Mass?

So no one wants to take a stab at this, or answer why we have Mass on Sunday and not Friday as our weekly obligation?

 

[floresco]

Here is an interesting point. If being at Mass is the same as being at Calvary, then why is it the one day in the year that we do not have any Mass is on Good Friday?

newtheologicalmovement.blogspot.ca/2011/04/there-is-no-mass-on-good-friday-and.html

In order to understand this question, one must recognize that the Eucharist is a sacrament and, therefore, is a sign and symbol and figure (though it is most certainly not a mere sign or symbol or figure). Precisely because the Eucharist is a sacrament, it is a sacrifice. On this point, we refer readers to our recent article in which we discuss what makes the Mass to be a sacrifice. Our claim in the current article will be that, because the Eucharistic sacrifice is a sacramental sacrifice (and hence is a figure, though not a mere figure), the Mass is not offered on Good Friday.

St. Thomas discusses this question and says: “The figure ceases on the advent of the reality. But this sacrament is a figure and a representation of our Lord’s Passion, as stated above. And therefore on the day on which our Lord’s Passion is recalled as it was really accomplished, this sacrament is not consecrated.” (ST III, q.83, a.2, ad 2)
Precisely because the Mass is a sacrament, it is a sign (not a mere sign, but a sign which contains a reality). However, in the commemoration of the Passion on Friday of Holy Week, the reality of the sacrifice is presented to the faithful not as a sacrament (i.e. not through the Mass) but “as it was really accomplished.” The Good Friday liturgy is, in fact, a more perfect re-presentation of the sacrifice of the Cross than is the Eucharistic liturgy. The Catholic faithful are more perfectly united to Calvary on Good Friday than they are by the offering of the Mass on any other day of the year.

Not of course, that there is anything lacking in the Eucharistic sacrifice offered every other day; but the Church, on Good Friday, recalls (with a special efficacy) the Lord’s Passion in its reality and not in its figure. Through the sacrament of the Eucharist, the very reality of the Cross is truly and really present under the figure of the sacrament – for, just as Christ’s blood poured forth from his body as he was pierced upon the Cross, so too the body and blood of Christ are sacramentally separated upon the altar during the Mass. There is no defect in the Eucharistic sacrifice: It is real and true, as a sacramental reality (and the sacraments are certainly real).

Still, on Good Friday, the sacrifice of the Cross is offered and commemorated not as a sacrament (that is, not as a figure or sign), but in the reality of its proper species – “as it was really accomplished.” Thus, just as the figure passes away in the advent of the reality, the Church does not offer the sacrifice of the Mass at the Good Friday commemoration of our Lord’s Passion.

 

[pnewton]

ewtn.com/faith/teachings/euchb1.htm

The Mass is the same Sacrifice as the Sacrifice on Calvary re-presented in an unbloody manner. The music should support our belief in this important doctrine.

ABsolutely! The unbloody part. That is a true reason to celebrate.

Note that in the article and important noun is elided in the first sentence. “Same” is an adjective (one that may be immediately contradicted, btw, in English). So this causes us to ask an important question. The same what? Well, the same sacrifice seems the obvious answer. An unbloody sacrifice. So it is the same something or other, but not really exactly the same. What it is not, is the same scene. It is not the same suffering, the reason we would truly be mourning. Though the substance remains, the accidents have no nerve endings. That one change from bloody to unbloody is quite significant.

 

[pnewton]

However, in the commemoration of the Passion on Friday of Holy Week, the reality of the sacrifice is presented to the faithful not as a sacrament (i.e. not through the Mass) but “as it was really accomplished.” The Good Friday liturgy is, in fact, a more perfect re-presentation of the sacrifice of the Cross than is the Eucharistic liturgy. The Catholic faithful are more perfectly united to Calvary on Good Friday than they are by the offering of the Mass on any other day of the year.

I consider myself well-answered.

Seriously, this has always been a head-scratcher for me. More perfect? I sometimes wonder if linguistics is more of a barrier than a tool.

 

[Cat]

Gregorian chant was a form of music specifically developed to suit our worship. I’m not saying that we can only use chant, but do you think that Protestant rock like this has the same character, that is, focusing our minds on the worship of God? Because I don’t. Encouraging people to go up to the piano and rocking out should not be the goal of music at Mass. In fact it is pretty much the diametric opposite. The music should be peaceful and Heavenly, not fit for light-shows and solos like this one is.

Forgive me, I was not clear in my post.

A POSTLUDE is played AFTER Mass. That is when the people gather around the piano. Not during the Mass.

“Peaceful” I guess that leaves out “Holy God, We Praise Thy Name,” “Joyful Joyful We Adore Thee,” and many other traditional hymns that have a strong beat and stronger words.

 

[Cat]

David was not witnessing the Crucifixion of God’s son. We are. Not something to be hopping around for.

You aren’t focusing on praying if you are running up to the piano to join in rocking out and singing your favorite pop hit.

Again, forgive me for my lack of clarity. The POSTUDE is played AFTER Mass. The people do no wrong or show no irreverence for singing AFTER Mass.

 

[agapewolf]

I’m far more concerned with what is being sung these days – things like, “I myself am the Bread of Life” (Um, then why do I need Jesus?) – but that’s probably for another thread.

To clarify a couple things:

“I Myself am the bread of life” phrase in that song is quoting Jesus. People are not singing it as themselves.

The next line, “you and I are the bread of life” is a misguided change to the fact that we are the body of Christ, trying to interchange the 2 terms. This is not theologically accurate, so I took it out of our repertoire at my parish. Just trying to clarify that the first line isn’t from the perspective of the people.

The other song “I am the bread of life” by toolan is direct scripture quotes, and its sung from Jesus’ perspective.

Other point, The mass is NOT JUST about the crucifixion. It is ALSO about the resurrection.