MERGED: "Musical abuse" at Mass tonight/Rock/Contemporary

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Zekariya said:
Perhaps you could discreetly listen to Gregorian Chant during the Communion songs?
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The funny thing is that I try to concentrate on Benedictine chant in my head during the entrance and exit songs. The not-funny thing is that I try to concentrate on receiving the Eucharist as I receive it, and have to fight against drums banging into my concentration.

As for the two songs that were just posted for opinion, I agree with the others that they are nice for a prayer group, but not for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, as was said.

The heretical songs to which I have been exposed usually have the same common problem: they were written by Protestant singer/songwriters to be played during non-liturgical ‘church’ services. They contain themes such as “all we need is God, and to sing psalms to him,” as in all we need is a non-Trinitarian God, and to sing our little songs we composed as our full form of Sunday worship. This is heresy and is not Christian practice. Yet these songs will be played as the Eucharist is administered during the Sacred Mass. Or, in place of what we proclaim when we sing “Glory to God in the Highest” and profess His presence with us in the Blessed Sacrament and in the tabernacle, they will say things like “God come down to us” in a directly confrontational context. And so on and so on, with the specific examples. They all unite to a common theme, and that is non-liturgical heterodoxy. So when such songs are played, yes, it is heretical.

I’m not sure if this is qualified as a liturgical abuse, but another problem is the use of American patriotic songs during the Mass – and not just “God bless America” but ones with no mention of God at all. This has only happened on military holidays, such as Veteran’s Day, as I have witnessed, but as far as I understand that is not acceptable to the order of the Holy Liturgy of the Body of Christ! But that is just a side-note.

Perhaps a more major problem, as I have noted, is the destruction of the Holy Liturgy into a pop-rock performance, when the Agnus Dei and the Gloria are turned into guitar solos. I have literally heard dramatic drumming punctuate the notes in “Hosanna in the Highest.” That is irreverent and unacceptable. How can we accept turning the Sacrifice of Christ into a performance art? How is that not heterodoxical?

I am a recent convert to the Church, so I am perhaps not very knowledge. I can, however, hear sacrilege when it comes drumming at me in my kneeler.
 
mburn16 said:
Here’s the issue I have:

Listen to either of the Guitar links that I posted. Now, listen to this:

youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=HXwpNBlpJsE&feature=endscreen

…and imagine a choir (and possibly the congregation) singing along.

I don’t see that one is any more or less distracting than the other.
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Thank you for this link! It has been a most welcome “aural palate cleanser” after listening to some of the other links referenced in the thread. How beautiful!
 
TigerKitty said:
I cannot take it. To me, it is sacralige (sp?).
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Personally, I think it possibly qualifies as such. I know that most participants are probably not subjectively culpable…but the buck has to stop somewhere.

It makes “offering it up” difficult…are we to “offer up” sacrilege? Well, I guess so, in the sense that Our Lord did on Calvary.

This is such a sad situation.
 
AssisiFollower said:
The funny thing is that I try to concentrate on Benedictine chant in my head during the entrance and exit songs. The not-funny thing is that I try to concentrate on receiving the Eucharist as I receive it, and have to fight against drums banging into my concentration.

As for the two songs that were just posted for opinion, I agree with the others that they are nice for a prayer group, but not for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, as was said.

The heretical songs to which I have been exposed usually have the same common problem: they were written by Protestant singer/songwriters to be played during non-liturgical ‘church’ services. They contain themes such as “all we need is God, and to sing psalms to him,” as in all we need is a non-Trinitarian God, and to sing our little songs we composed as our full form of Sunday worship. This is heresy and is not Christian practice. Yet these songs will be played as the Eucharist is administered during the Sacred Mass. Or, in place of what we proclaim when we sing “Glory to God in the Highest” and profess His presence with us in the Blessed Sacrament and in the tabernacle, they will say things like “God come down to us” in a directly confrontational context. And so on and so on, with the specific examples. They all unite to a common theme, and that is non-liturgical heterodoxy. So when such songs are played, yes, it is heretical.

I’m not sure if this is qualified as a liturgical abuse, but another problem is the use of American patriotic songs during the Mass – and not just “God bless America” but ones with no mention of God at all. This has only happened on military holidays, such as Veteran’s Day, as I have witnessed, but as far as I understand that is not acceptable to the order of the Holy Liturgy of the Body of Christ! But that is just a side-note.

Perhaps a more major problem, as I have noted, is the destruction of the Holy Liturgy into a pop-rock performance, when the Agnus Dei and the Gloria are turned into guitar solos. I have literally heard dramatic drumming punctuate the notes in “Hosanna in the Highest.” That is irreverent and unacceptable. How can we accept turning the Sacrifice of Christ into a performance art? How is that not heterodoxical?

I am a recent convert to the Church, so I am perhaps not very knowledge. I can, however, hear sacrilege when it comes drumming at me in my kneeler.
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You are in my prayers. I cannot help thinking how fortunate I am to have the liturgy at my church, although it is by no means what it should be… yet.
 
Does your parish have a cry room (mothers’ room)? If you sat there, it might be distracting with the children’s noises, but it might not be as consternating - at least they can’t help it.
 
youtube.com/watch?v=QWNTc9Ljf-c

The signature at the bottom of my posts is a line of the Church Slavonic for this:

We who mystically represent the Cherubim,
and who sing to the Life-Giving Trinity the thrice-holy hymn,
let us now lay aside all earthly cares
that we may receive the King of all,
escorted invisibly by the angelic orders.
Alleluia

If you may permit me to give the Cherubikon from the Eastern Catholics and Orthodox for my argument, this is what our place in the Mass is!

The main contention is always always to remember this, and not to give in to the abasement of our Mass that irreverence, heterodoxy, and heresy work toward.

I suppose this is where I am coming from when I say I cannot tolerate an attitude inimical to this!
 
I used to travel 2 1/2 hours each way to Mass (120 miles one way). After much work by a group of us, the trip is now only 75 miles each way. Of course I’m talking about the EF Mass. I, too cannot deal with the OF any more. So that is my choice. Problem solved. Gas bill is pretty high! But its worth it.👍
 
AssisiFollower said:
youtube.com/watch?v=QWNTc9Ljf-c

The signature at the bottom of my posts is a line of the Church Slavonic for this:

We who mystically represent the Cherubim,
and who sing to the Life-Giving Trinity the thrice-holy hymn,
let us now lay aside all earthly cares
that we may receive the King of all,
escorted invisibly by the angelic orders.
Alleluia

If you may permit me to give the Cherubikon from the Eastern Catholics and Orthodox for my argument, this is what our place in the Mass is!

The main contention is always always to remember this, and not to give in to the abasement of our Mass that irreverence, heterodoxy, and heresy work toward.

I suppose this is where I am coming from when I say I cannot tolerate an attitude inimical to this!
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Saints have seen the hosts of angels who surround the altar at the holy sacrifice of the Mass in solemn adoration of Our Lord in the Holy Eucharist. If we are not aware of heaven’s most intimate participation in each Mass, how can we ever understand the proper role of sacred music in the liturgy.
 
corsair said:
I used to travel 2 1/2 hours each way to Mass (120 miles one way). After much work by a group of us, the trip is now only 75 miles each way. Of course I’m talking about the EF Mass. I, too cannot deal with the OF any more. So that is my choice. Problem solved. Gas bill is pretty high! But its worth it.👍
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Iknow there are many families who drive almost 2 hours each Sunday just to go to Sunday MAss at St. John Cantius Chruch in Chicago. here is a sample of their music
 
have you brought it up to the Pastor maybe your parish can allocate 1 of the masses on Sunday to be different!.. start a petition if you have others that share this view
 
The heretical songs to which I have been exposed usually have the same common problem: they were written by Protestant singer/songwriters to be played during non-liturgical ‘church’ services. They contain themes such as “all we need is God, and to sing psalms to him,” as in all we need is a non-Trinitarian God, and to sing our little songs we composed as our full form of Sunday worship. This is heresy and is not Christian practice. Yet these songs will be played as the Eucharist is administered during the Sacred Mass. Or, in place of what we proclaim when we sing “Glory to God in the Highest” and profess His presence with us in the Blessed Sacrament and in the tabernacle, they will say things like “God come down to us” in a directly confrontational context. And so on and so on, with the specific examples. They all unite to a common theme, and that is non-liturgical heterodoxy. So when such songs are played, yes, it is heretical.
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Ok. But what lyrics, specifically, are heretical? I mean, the line you reference, I’m not sure what song that is from. I don’t see anything wrong with saying, “All we need is God.” We’re not Pelagians. Singing Psalms is indeed a form of worship, so I’m not sure what the problem is. I get that people don’t like one genre or another, but I see the charge of heresy used very frequently against Protestant songs (and even some Catholic ones) and I agree that in some cases, there is poor theology behind them. But, again, give me some specifics, if you can.

As for things being Protestant…if something is true, it is by that definition Catholic. Just because something is composed by a Protestant does not mean that we should reject it out of hand. I’ll give you a quick example. I would argue that one of the best Biblical scholars alive today, and I would recommend just about any of his works, is N.T. Wright, an Anglican (his ecclesiology and sacramental theology lacks a little bit, but other than that, his stuff is amazing!). There are many very faithfully Catholic Biblical scholars who would echo my sentiments.
 
I’m sorry you feel this way.😦

As for theological errors in songs, not every song is literal so try and look at the lyrics with different perspectives and see if any of them fit.
 
Are you commenting on the skill of the particular organist or on the use of organ altogether?
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I’m commenting on the fact that I would likely find myself redirected from private prayer by either an Organ and Choir singing Holy God…, or a single guitar player doing the same. Perhaps thats just me, but in that case, then its simply a matter of personal taste.

Too many people make this out to be a simple issue…I don’t think it is. We want to provide due dignity to the mass, yes. And, as I’ve said before, perhaps there would be far less consternation if we didn’t so unwisely confine our organized worship to the liturgy. But things being as they are, I’m skeptical that a majority would agree that the music being criticized serves as a barrier to the appropriate worship of, or interaction with, God.
 
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