MERGED: ok, I feel bad for asking this...../Mass attendance Christmas Eve?

[TrueLight]

It is a good thing to emphasize, even though the obligation to assist at Holy Mass is fulfilled on the day or evening before, what still remains is "to abstain from those works and affairs which hinder the worship to be rendered to God, the joy proper to the Lord’s day, or the suitable relaxation of mind and body" on Sunday or the Holy Day of Obligation itself.

Yes, exactly.

If you do not like an option that the Church allows for then do not do it but do not judge anyone who does take it.

You’re right in that I cannot judge a person, especially someone who I don’t know. Only God judges. However, it is not uncharitable to fraternally correct someone that you know specifically uses Sundays in a way contrary to what was posted by vico above.

And that is also Church teaching and should not be ignored.

 

[TrueLight]

I’m going to 10PM “midnight mass,” and there will be absolutely no masses at all celebrated on Christmas day itself at my parish. Oh, how dreadful is this situation.

I understand that because the likelihood of someone coming back to church in the morning after leaving at 11- 12 is slim.

 

[MartyrForJesus]

Yes the Sat mass before the Sunday fulfills the obligation. But it wasn’t always so. Everything is permissible, but not everything is expedient.

I think there is something wrong with habitually attending Sat evening mass so that one can sleep in on Sundays and to schedule sports, shopping etc.

I can’t help but feel this was another concession for an increasingly disengaged Catholic population who didn’t believe in sacrifices.

Before anyone says anything, of course there are people who need to work on Saturdays. I’m not referring to those people.

NewsTheMan said something about it earlier on didn’t he?

EDIT Oh, silly me. Post #7

The Saturday vigil was only ever authorized for those who could not attend the Sunday Mass. Sunday remains the norm (as shown above) and the Saturday vigil is a last resort, not a first stop for those who’d rather get up later and have a lie in with croissants and tea. Certainly people who do such a thing are not in mortal sin (all other things being equal) but they are falling outside of traditional Catholic practice by not sanctifying Sunday and keeping it the time to worship with the rest of the Church.

Laughed so hard at the bolded part.

 

[TrueLight]

On a side note, I find it **odd that lay people push this idea **especially when a priest (or a seminarian) who is trained by the Church speaks on the matter.

I don’t think anyone disagreed with Father David that a Saturday evening mass does indeed fulfill the obligation.

Having said that, anytime there is talk of lay people as if they don’t matter, as reflected by the bolded part in your statement, and as I’ve seen said elsewhere on this forum – in other words a reminder that we should know our places, my eyes glaze over.

 

[TrueLight]

NewsTheMan said something about it earlier on didn’t he?

EDIT Oh, silly me. Post #7

Yes, he did and I agree.

I think it’s important to understand the spirit of the law along with the letter of the law.

And that’s all I’m saying on this subject.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

Yes the Sat mass before the Sunday fulfills the obligation. But it wasn’t always so. Everything is permissible, but not everything is expedient.

I think there is something wrong with habitually attending Sat evening mass so that one can sleep in on Sundays and to schedule sports, shopping etc.

I can’t help but feel this was another concession for an increasingly disengaged Catholic population who didn’t believe in sacrifices.

Before anyone says anything, of course there are people who need to work on Saturdays. I’m not referring to those people.

There is absolutely nothing whatsoever wrong with going to Mass on Saturday evening. Choosing to go at 6 p.m. on Saturday evening is as valid as going at, say, 11 o’clock on Sunday morning. Sleeping in on Sunday, playing sports on a Sunday, going shopping; none of these are wrong.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

Having said that, anytime there is talk of lay people as if they don’t matter, as reflected by the bolded part in your statement, and as I’ve seen said elsewhere on this forum – in other words a reminder that we should know our places, my eyes glaze over.

I am in complete agreement with the sentiment expressed here.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

You’re right in that I cannot judge a person, especially someone who I don’t know. Only God judges. However, it is not uncharitable to fraternally correct someone that you know specifically uses Sundays in a way contrary to what was posted by vico above.

And that is also Church teaching and should not be ignored.

And what you said, that attendance at a Saturday evening Mass for those who do not have to work is not right. This is not what the Church teaches (which you do seem to ignore with your opinion) and it is not fraternal correction.

What I did in replying to your post was fraternal correction.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I don’t think anyone disagreed with Father David that a Saturday evening mass does indeed fulfill the obligation.

Go back and read the posts again. A user stated that a “serious reason” is necessary to attend a Saturday evening Mass. He disagreed with Father that no such reason is necessary.

Having said that, anytime there is talk of lay people as if they don’t matter, as reflected by the bolded part in your statement, and as I’ve seen said elsewhere on this forum – in other words a reminder that we should know our places, my eyes glaze over.

I am sorry that you feel this way but there are somethings, such as Church discipline, where the laity is not competent to give anything other than their opinion.

Frankly I feel the same way when someone here gives their opinion as fact and judges how “reverent” they feel a certain action is when it is a valid option that the Church allows.

Mainly that is why many of those users are on my ignore list but I do, on occasion, check out what they are saying so that I can provide a counter point so that those who do not understand will not be mislead.

I think I have said enough on this and will go back to my normal practice.

I will pray for you, please pray for me.

 

[Like]

You are misreading the Canons.

Here they are again.

Canon 1247
On Sundays and other holy days of obligation the faithful are bound to participate in the Mass; they are also to abstain from those labors and business concerns which impede the worship to be rendered to God, the joy which is proper to the Lord’s Day, or the proper relaxation of mind and body.

Canon 1248

1. The precept of participating in the Mass is satisfied by assistance at a Mass which is celebrated anywhere in a Catholic rite either on the holy day or on the evening of the preceding day.
2. If because of lack of a sacred minister or for other grave cause participation in the celebration of the Eucharist is impossible, it is specially recommended that the faithful take part in the liturgy of the word if it is celebrated in the parish church or in another sacred place according to the prescriptions of the diocesan bishop, or engage in prayer for an appropriate amount of time personally or in a family or, as occasion offers, in groups of families.

Section 2 of Canon 1248 is not addressing the attending of a Mass the evening of the preceding day, section 1 addresses that and does not say that a grave cause is necessary.

Section 2 is addressing a communion service with the Liturgy of the Word because the lack of a sacred minister. This would require a grave cause.

This is plan to see as the first sentence of section 2 says “participation in the celebration of the Eucharist is impossible.” It does not speak to attending Mass on the evening before, which, again, is addressed in section 1 and in canon 1247, both of which say its is acceptable and does not state that a “grave cause” is necessary.

On a side note, I find it odd that lay people push this idea especially when a priest (or a seminarian) who is trained by the Church speaks on the matter.

Br.Dave,Why do you place a seminarian on the same level of a priest on this teaching?
BTW, I do believe the teaching of the Church on Saturday evening Mass as fulfilling you Sunday obligation.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Br.Dave,Why do you place a seminarian on the same level of a priest on this teaching?
BTW, I do believe the teaching of the Church on Saturday evening Mass as fulfilling you Sunday obligation.

I place a seminarian on a different level than a priest. A priest has authority if he is a pastor of a parish.

The reason I mentioned seminarians at the same time as priests is that seminarians are actively being taught these things.

 

[Like]

I place a seminarian on a different level than a priest. A priest has authority if he is a pastor of a parish.

The reason I mentioned seminarians at the same time as priests is that seminarians are actively being taught these things.

I think you are wrong on this, I could accept you saying a Deacon can teach this. But a seminarian can not read the Gospel or give the homily.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I think you are wrong on this, I could accept you saying a Deacon can teach this. But a seminarian can not read the Gospel or give the homily.

True but that has nothing to do with the question asked in this thread.

 

[Like]

True but that has nothing to do with the question asked in this thread.

You are welcome to your opinion, but that is only your opinion! You don’t even say at what grade level the seminarian may be. A seminarian is a lay person until he receives ordination at some point of time.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

You are welcome to your opinion, but that is only your opinion! You don’t even say at what grade level the seminarian may be. A seminarian is a lay person until he receives ordination at some point of time.

Ordination has nothing to do with this.

It is about knowledge of the Church’s disciplines and laws and how to interpret them. This is something that a seminarian is taught not to mention the resources at his disposal in those who are teaching him and guiding hisformation.

It is time to move on.

 

[Like]

It is time to move on.

Indeed it is! I give you the last word, but I believe you WRONG!

 

[maryjk]

I place a seminarian on a different level than a priest. A priest has authority if he is a pastor of a parish.

The reason I mentioned seminarians at the same time as priests is that seminarians are actively** being** taught these things.

I think you are wrong on this, I** could accept you saying a Deacon can teach this.** But a seminarian can not read the Gospel or give the homily.

Like, you are misreading what ByzCath is saying. There is a difference between being taught and teaching.

Seminarians are actively being taught. Deacons can teach.

Which means that seminarians would have resources at his disposal that most lay people wouldn’t have.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Like, you are misreading what ByzCath is saying. There is a difference between being taught and teaching.

Seminarians are actively being taught. Deacons can teach.

Which means that seminarians would have resources at his disposal that most lay people wouldn’t have.

The Church does not restrict teaching or preaching to the clergy only. What is restricted is the proclamation of the Gospel at Mass and the preaching of the homily at Mass.

Out side of Mass is a different story.

This thread is not about anything thatisso restricted.

 

[ora_pro_nobis]

Yes the Sat mass before the Sunday fulfills the obligation. But it wasn’t always so. Everything is permissible, but not everything is expedient.

I think there is something wrong with habitually attending Sat evening mass so that one can sleep in on Sundays and to schedule sports, shopping etc.

I can’t help but feel this was another concession for an increasingly disengaged Catholic population who didn’t believe in sacrifices.

Before anyone says anything, of course there are people who need to work on Saturdays. I’m not referring to those people.

I know loads of people who go to Saturday evening Mass and then again on Sunday, just because they love Mass! they would be mortified if they thought someone was thinking that their attendance at Saturday was so they could have sleep in etc on Sundays.

 

[fish90]

Hello,

Would I fulfill my obligation for attending Mass (on a Holy Day and Sunday) by going to the 4 PM Christmas Eve Mass? Or, must I go on Christmas Day as well? What about the fulfilling of the Sunday Mass piece?

I hope I make sense.

Best,
fish90