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grasscutter
Guest
Yes, the vigil mass would fulfill your obligation.
MERGED: ok, I feel bad for asking this...../Mass attendance Christmas Eve?
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1ke
Guest
Why do you think it wouldn’t?
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Mrs_Sally
Guest
That is truly sad. Not everyone can attend a Christmas Eve Mass (thinking of the elderly who don’t drive at night, or families with young children) and Christmas day this year is a Sunday! This reminds me of the big hallabaloo in protestant circles last time Christmas day fell on a Sunday and they didn’t have services at all because everyone “should be home with their families”. so sad.I’m going to 10PM “midnight mass,” and there will be absolutely no masses at all celebrated on Christmas day itself at my parish.Oh, how dreadful is this situation.
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FrDavid96
Guest
These 2 threads were merged.
Take this post (which was posted in the thread you might not have seen)…
…Cross out “10 PM” and insert “4 PM”
You need only attend one Mass at any time from the “time of First Vespers” (4 PM) on Saturday through Sunday night.
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Miriam1947
Guest
I am going to the Midnight Mass at 5pm service.
I am not going on Sunday.
Sheesh, why is this such a big deal?
I am not going on Sunday.
Sheesh, why is this such a big deal?
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FrDavid96
Guest
Actually, you will be going on Sunday.
Remember, that by the time that Mass starts, Sunday will have already begun, and Saturday will be a thing of the past.
It won’t be “Midnight Mass” though; it will be “Five P.M. Mass”
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Vico
Guest
If Sunday is Dec 25 (midnight to midnight) the canon that refers to the vigil on the previous day means on Dec 24 (midnight to midnight).
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Miriam1947
Guest
I know it won’t be “Midnight Mass” but we will be doing everything the same as the Midnight Mass.Actually, you will be going on Sunday.
Remember, that by the time that Mass starts, Sunday will have already begun, and Saturday will be a thing of the past.
It won’t be “Midnight Mass” though; it will be “Five P.M. Mass”
I don’t recall if this was done last year as well. But I cannot stay awake long enough for midnight any more. New Year comes in at 9 on Jan. 31st.
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TrueLight
Guest
Why do I have a deja-vu like this was some sort of debate on an older thread? Ha ha.
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anruari
Guest
That is positively scandalous!!!I’m going to 10PM “midnight mass,” and there will be absolutely no masses at all celebrated on Christmas day itself at my parish.
I would complain to your local priest and consider complaining to your bishop.
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anruari
Guest
I would disagree with the idea that going shopping is not wrong on a Sunday
the *spirit *of the rules about the Sabbath in the Old Testament were that you should not undertake servile works or trade or cause your servants to do these things for you. - Or make your animals do works.
By people habitually expecting shops to be open on Sundays produces the situation that many people end up pressured or forced to work on Sundays or loose their jobs. This is at it’s worst in the retail sector. - but also in other sectors such as telephone call centres. (expecting a telephone call for business purposes to be answered on a Sunday). Shopping on a Sunday is therefore absoloutley in breach of this spirit of the Sabbath / Lords Day. For you it is carrying out business, and it is forcing others to work.
It is wrong to assume that all those people working on Sundays want to be working that day. - Now while cannon law does not explicitly prohibit shopping on a Sunday - neither does it explicitly permit it, and it does say you should not engage in activities that disrupt the prayer, rest, relaxation and enjoyment of the Lords Day.
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Matthew_Holford
Guest
While I appreciate your point of view I think that it cannot be supported from the Old Testament. This would bring us to the typical way in which Orthodox Jews observe Shabbat. This would be much more restrictive than what currently happens in the Catholic Faith. I agree with you: prayer, rest, relaxation, and enjoyment of the Lord’s Day are important. I do not accept the view that shopping prevents you from these things. For some people who work six days per week Sunday may be their opportunity to go shopping. I don’t know what the “rules” are in the USA but here there is a law that protects Sunday. Anyone can opt out of Sunday working and their employer cannot treat them in any detrimental way if they so opt out.
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Mrs_Sally
Guest
I read a very interesting article from a Baptist minister arguing exactly this point - that many in his congregation went out to lunch after church on Sunday to “relax” thereby causing the wait staff, cooks, etc. to have to be open on Sunday.
I think we need to seriously consider this while refraining from being puritanical (or pharisaical). Of course, those who have no other time to do certain shopping chores (like groceries) will need to go out on Sundays. Those of us with more flexible schedules should plan to get our chores done before Sunday.
In a pluralistic society the folks working on Sundays could easily be Jews, Muslims, Buddists, or ordinary heathens, for whom Sunday is not a day of rest.
You don’t know if your relaxing stroll through the mall or Sunday lunch out is actually causing Christians to miss church or observance of Sunday rest.
Probably the best practice is to find ways to relax and celebrate Sunday that don’t involve commercial activites. Visiting family, going to the park, reading, those kinds of things.
I think we need to seriously consider this while refraining from being puritanical (or pharisaical). Of course, those who have no other time to do certain shopping chores (like groceries) will need to go out on Sundays. Those of us with more flexible schedules should plan to get our chores done before Sunday.
In a pluralistic society the folks working on Sundays could easily be Jews, Muslims, Buddists, or ordinary heathens, for whom Sunday is not a day of rest.
You don’t know if your relaxing stroll through the mall or Sunday lunch out is actually causing Christians to miss church or observance of Sunday rest.Probably the best practice is to find ways to relax and celebrate Sunday that don’t involve commercial activites. Visiting family, going to the park, reading, those kinds of things.
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FrDavid96
Guest
Do you know why it’s being done that way? I don’t, and I’ve read all the posts.
Please share.
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FrDavid96
Guest
Since the topic here is attending Mass on a Saturday evening (in this case, December 24), and whether or not that Mass “counts” for Sunday (either Sunday itself, or Christmas day), it would be good for us to read what Bl. John Paul II had to say on the matter.
From a liturgical point of view, in fact, holy days begin with First Vespers.(88) Consequently, the liturgy of what is sometimes called the “Vigil Mass” is in effect the “festive” Mass of Sunday, at which the celebrant is required to preach the homily and recite the Prayer of the Faithful.
(88) Cf. Missale Romanum, Normae Universales de Anno Liturgico et de Calendario, 3.
The entire text can be found here
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_05071998_dies-domini_en.html
Let’s remember that Bl. John Paul II promulgated the 1983 Code of Canon Law. There was no person more competent to interpret that Code than John Paul II himself.
In contrast, there are those who say that they know better.
I will leave it to the readers here to decide who to trust: the Pope who promulgated the Code of Canon Law, or someone else.
From a liturgical point of view, in fact, holy days begin with First Vespers.(88) Consequently, the liturgy of what is sometimes called the “Vigil Mass” is in effect the “festive” Mass of Sunday, at which the celebrant is required to preach the homily and recite the Prayer of the Faithful.
(88) Cf. Missale Romanum, Normae Universales de Anno Liturgico et de Calendario, 3.
The entire text can be found here
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_05071998_dies-domini_en.html
Let’s remember that Bl. John Paul II promulgated the 1983 Code of Canon Law. There was no person more competent to interpret that Code than John Paul II himself.
In contrast, there are those who say that they know better.
I will leave it to the readers here to decide who to trust: the Pope who promulgated the Code of Canon Law, or someone else.
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maryjk
Guest
I think it is funny that, for some, Saturday Mass isn’t okay if you are attending so you can sleep in. For those that believe that, what about people that sleep in then attend Mass at 5pm on Sunday? Or attend our later Mass at 9pm on Sunday?
Our parish has 4 Mass times on Sunday and one on Saturday night. Two of the times on Sunday are in the evening. So, there are fewer Masses in the am when you have to get up and more that allow you to sleep in.
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FrDavid96
Guest
To all those lazy people who think they can sleep late on a Sunday morning, as if it were some kind of “day of rest” or some such, I have this to say:
I think it is funny that, for some, Saturday Mass isn’t okay if you are attending so you can sleep in. For those that believe that, what about people that sleep in then attend Mass at 5pm on Sunday? Or attend our later Mass at 9pm on Sunday?
Our parish has 4 Mass times on Sunday and one on Saturday night. Two of the times on Sunday are in the evening. So, there are fewer Masses in the am when you have to get up and more that allow you to sleep in.
“Man was not made for the Sabbath, but the Sabbath for man.”
(I forget who said that…)
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Matthew_Holford
Guest
What of those poor souls who have worked all Saturday night.
I’m sure you can.
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Vico
Guest
It is humorous, since there is no debate, only two different types of days, a canonical day (from civil law, used in the canon law, and for fasting) and a liturgical day (from the Jewish practice), and each is 24 hours long (or either 23 or 25 on leap days).
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fayfay
Guest
ill try to make this as simple as possible.
Scenario 1:
My family and I plan to go to Midnight Mass at 12am. Since Christmas falls on a Sunday , this fulfills our Sunday obligation also, correct?
Scenario 2:
Say my family was to go to a 10pm Mass on Christmas Eve (Saturday). Would this ALSO fulfill our Sunday and Christmas obligation? Hence, must we also go to Mass on Sunday?
Thank you so much, just clarifying!?!?!?!
Scenario 1:
My family and I plan to go to Midnight Mass at 12am. Since Christmas falls on a Sunday , this fulfills our Sunday obligation also, correct?
Scenario 2:
Say my family was to go to a 10pm Mass on Christmas Eve (Saturday). Would this ALSO fulfill our Sunday and Christmas obligation? Hence, must we also go to Mass on Sunday?
Thank you so much, just clarifying!?!?!?!
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