MERGED Questions about Mormonism

[Telstar]

The 3 three degrees of glory is from Paul so I do not buy it is something the Mormons created.

When Paul was speaking of the man being caught up to the “third Heaven”, he was referring to a specific type of vision. It was not a reference to different levels in Heaven, but the different levels of visions that people can receive from God. Some visions are much more intense and ‘real’ than others, even though they might all be from God. They all have very distinct differences. If you study some of the great visionary Saints of the Church, or the different levels of a contemplative prayer life, you’ll learn that there’s a wide range of visions, locutions (an audible interior or exterior voice) and divine inspirations.

When did any of us become God in terms of judging another?

Again when did any of become God in terms of judging another, speaking to who goes to any degree of glory?

It’s the LDS that believe they’re the only ones that can ever enter the “highest” Heaven (aka: the “Celestial Kingdom”), and only by the approval of Joseph Smith. He’s the one that decides who will actually get in.

We’re certainly not judging anyone else. We’re only commenting on their beliefs, not on anyone as an individual.

 

[TruthLiving]

You will have to ask that Mormons that one when it comes to why only Mormons, in their theology, only go to the Celestial kingdom.

It’s why the build temples. It why they do proxy work for the dead (to give them a chance to be Mormon and go to the Celestial kingdom).
It’s why, in their view, the priesthood exists etc etc.

It’s why their 3 fold mission of the LDS church is stated as the following

Preach the Gospel
Perfect the saints
Redeem the dead (temple work)

Their temples would be for naught in their view if anyone could make it into the celestial kingdom who has not accepted their view of the Gospel.

It’s why they dot the world with their temples

This notion of why work for the dead is misunderstood ---- yes as I understand from my Mormon friends, the work is done — yet do you understand the postmortal spirit world?

I would think Catholics would understand about the significance of the scripture 1 Peter 4:6.

 

[zaffiroborant]

I would think Catholics would understand about the significance of the scripture 1 Peter 4:6.

Yes it shows (along with 1 Peter 3:19) that baptism for the dead was, and is not, needed.

 

[RebeccaJ]

The 3 three degrees of glory is from Paul so I do not buy it is something the Mormons created.

Paul was making an analogy, he wasn’t describing three different heavens. Jesus taught consistently of two groups. Those who would be with Him, and those who would not. The Mormons, from a Christian view, have one heaven and three hells, as the definition of hell is to be separated from God. Also, a non-Christian view from Mormons in their teaching that God is divided. The three Persons of the Trinity cannot be divided, one for one “heaven” and another for another “heaven”. There is One God, and One Kingdom of God. Not three gods and three kingdoms. This is only Mormon polytheism coming through.

When did any of us become God in terms of judging another?

Again when did any of become God in terms of judging another, speaking to who goes to any degree of glory?

No one here is judging individual LDS members or anyone else. We can judge the teachings of Mormonism…

 

[Miriam1947]

This notion of why work for the dead is misunderstood ---- yes as I understand from my Mormon friends, the work is done — yet do you understand the postmortal spirit world?

I would think Catholics would understand about the significance of the scripture 1 Peter 4:6.

So, how long have you been Mormon?

 

[Marie5890]

This notion of why work for the dead is misunderstood ---- yes as I understand from my Mormon friends, the work is done — yet do you understand the postmortal spirit world?

.

Which goes back to the main point of Mormons believe that only Mormons can make it into the celestial kingdom. For the reason they do proxy baptisms for the dead. They believe you have to accept the Mormon version of the Gospel and be baptized Mormon in order to make it into the the celestial kingdom.

Example: If a proxy baptism is done for someone who has died and they reject that baptism that has been done in their behalf, they cant enter the celestial kingdom. They have to accept that baptism. IE become Mormon

Feel free to do the research and check out the dogma.

 

[Marie5890]

So, how long have you been Mormon?

Miriam, do you think that TrueLiving is being dishonest and misrepresenting who they are?

If you are right and that is what they are doing, that is certainly unjust on their part, and cowardly IMO.

 

[Telstar]

Miriam, do you think that TrueLiving is being dishonest and misrepresenting who they are?

If you are right and that is what they are doing, that is certainly unjust on their part, and cowardly IMO.

I’m not really sure, but from all the responses that have been coming from them, I was thinking of asking the same question. I doubt that anyone that wasn’t Mormon would have pulled that passage from 1st Peter out of their hat, to support their claims, even though Peter was clearly speaking of Jesus preaching the Gospel to the dead (giving them the ‘good news’ that His mission was accomplished for them), before His Resurrection.

 

[Marie5890]

I’m not really sure, but from all the responses that have been coming from them, I was thinking of asking the same question. I doubt that anyone that wasn’t Mormon would have pulled that passage from 1st Peter out of their hat, to support their claims, even though Peter was clearly speaking of Jesus preaching the Gospel to the dead (giving them the ‘good news’ that His mission was accomplished for them), before His Resurrection.

Fair point.

That being said, would hate to think that they are choosing to be unethical and misleading us by choosing deceit and over honesty in order to push an agenda.

 

[TruthLiving]

Which goes back to the main point of Mormons believe that only Mormons can make it into the celestial kingdom. For the reason they do proxy baptisms for the dead. They believe you have to accept the Mormon version of the Gospel and be baptized Mormon in order to make it into the the celestial kingdom.

Example: If a proxy baptism is done for someone who has died and they reject that baptism that has been done in their behalf, they cant enter the celestial kingdom. They have to accept that baptism. IE become Mormon

Feel free to do the research and check out the dogma.

As I understand from my Mormon friends, who are any of us to decide who gets to go to any degree of glory? Further, how could anyone here understand the postmortal life, when why the work for the dead is performed is so misunderstood???

I am quite familiar with the dogma and as you have described it, that is not correct, nonetheless if you wish to believe that, you certainly can.

 

[Marie5890]

As I understand from my Mormon friends, who are any of us to decide who gets to go to any degree of glory? Further, how could anyone here understand the postmortal life, when why the work for the dead is performed is so misunderstood???

I am quite familiar with the dogma and as you have described it, that is not correct, nonetheless if you wish to believe that, you certainly can.

By Mormon dogma, (and I lived and taught it) In order for a person to gain entrance into the celestial kingdom, one has to be baptized by properly authorized authority (Ie Mormon priesthood).

It’s why temple work is done by proxy for the dead. (and I’ve done temple work; baptisms, endowments and sealings)

 

[Marie5890]

OH :doh2:

I forgot another entirely absolute requirement for celestial glory!!..

THE SIGNS, TOKENS, PENALTIES! ETC ETC of the temple endowment…

It’s why they are done and why the are done by proxy for the dead

" Brigham Young, on the occasion of the laying of the cornerstone of the Salt Lake temple, described the importance of the endowment as the key to entrance into the highest degree of heaven:

“Your endowment is to receive all those ordinances in the House of the Lord which are necessary for you, after you have departed this life, to enable you to walk back to the presence of the Father, passing the angels who stand as sentinels, being enabled to give them the key words, the signs and tokens, pertaining to the Holy Priesthood, and gain your eternal exaltation in spite of earth and hell.” - Journal of Discourses, Vol. 2, p.315, April 6, 1853"

And the endowment cant happen until and after baptism

(man I forgot about all that,the endowment ceremony and all of that ritual, and going thru the veil)

saltlakemormontemple.com/220/the-mormon-temple-endowment

 

[Miriam1947]

Miriam, do you think that TrueLiving is being dishonest and misrepresenting who they are?

If you are right and that is what they are doing, that is certainly unjust on their part, and cowardly IMO.

Oh yes, I most certainly do believe that TrueLiving is a Mormon. Why he/she doesn’t come out and say so is beyond me.

I proclaim widely that I am a Catholic. And I am the only Catholic in my entire family.

 

[blinds8]

1. How do Mormons view the Bible, especially in relation to the Book of Mormon? Does one take precedence over the other? Is Mormonism sola scriptura? How much weight is given to Joseph Smith’s writings and interpretation of the Bible?
2. Can non-Mormons go to heaven? How long does it take to become a Mormon, and what does the process entail? What if a Mormon left the church – what would happen to him from the community’s perspective?

Thanks

The book of mormon is fully inspired by God and so Is the Holy Bible therefore the book of mormom is spiritually on par and the same as the Bible as it is inspired by God. Serious Look it up mormon.org

 

[Marie5890]

I proclaim widely that I am a Catholic. And I am the only Catholic in my entire family.

I never hid my religious affiliation when I was Mormon, nor now that I am Catholic.

 

[Marie5890]

The book of mormon is fully inspired by God and so Is the Holy Bible therefore the book of mormom is spiritually on par and the same as the Bible as it is inspired by God. Serious Look it up mormon.org

Blinds8,

I see you are new to CAF. Hello and welcome.

You need to know that one of the rules of CAF, and specifically here on the non-Catholic forum is that proselytizing is not allowed and can get a person suspended if not banned.

Just a cautionary warning of wisdom.

Again Welcome!!

 

[Timeless_Man]

I have a cousin (in another state) who is a Mormon and have had some very interesting, if not soul searching, discussions. I have had the opportunity to discuss with other Mormons the subject of the Spirit and how we differ in our faith. Though I find some of their beliefs to be somewhat strange - they have a strict health law, they pay tithing, and they claim to have prophets - I have not experienced what many claim that would qualify them as a cult (by the way does anyone know what the meaning of “cult” is?) or uninformed about the Bible and the doctrines that the Word teaches. In fact, I have had to study deep into the scriptures to understand my own religion. It has been a delightful journey for me.

Though I may not believe everything they believe - I find them to be very tolerant and non-judgmental about my beliefs.

 

[Marie5890]

I have a cousin (in another state) who is a Mormon and have had some very interesting, if not soul searching, discussions. I have had the opportunity to discuss with other Mormons the subject of the Spirit and how we differ in our faith. Though I find some of their beliefs to be somewhat strange - they have a strict health law, they pay tithing, and they claim to have prophets - I have not experienced what many claim that would qualify them as a cult (by the way does anyone know what the meaning of “cult” is?) or uninformed about the Bible and the doctrines that the Word teaches. In fact, I have had to study deep into the scriptures to understand my own religion. It has been a delightful journey for me.

Though I may not believe everything they believe - I find them to be very tolerant and non-judgmental about my beliefs.

Timeless Man,

Hello and welcome to CAF.

Not sure what others mean when the use the word “cult” in relation to Mormonism

Here is a list of definitions

Definition of CULT

1
: formal religious veneration : worship
2
: a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents
3
: a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents
4
: a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator
5
a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad
b : the object of such devotion
c : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion

By the above definitions, Mormonism would fall under the 3rd in many peoples mind. Their body of theology is not traditional Christianity, starting off with the Trinity and so many other doctrines that most Christians agree on.

That is just the beginning. Many of us here are former Mormons and we know how very unorthodox their belief system is/are.

" a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents"

 

[HonoraDominum]

What’s the difference between a cult and a religion? About 100,000 believers or so.

That being said, Satan can show himself in many forms, from angels of light to the disgusting fallen creature he truly is. Just because a whole lot of people believe in a religion created by Satan to lead God’s children into hell does not make it a true religion. When a person is truly searching God, Satan and his minions often stop tempting the person with things that are evil and starts tempting with things that are good.

Please pray for the souls of those deceived by the lies of the LDS church.

 

[TruthLiving]

Paul was making an analogy, he wasn’t describing three different heavens. Jesus taught consistently of two groups. Those who would be with Him, and those who would not. The Mormons, from a Christian view, have one heaven and three hells, as the definition of hell is to be separated from God. Also, a non-Christian view from Mormons in their teaching that God is divided. The three Persons of the Trinity cannot be divided, one for one “heaven” and another for another “heaven”. There is One God, and One Kingdom of God. Not three gods and three kingdoms. This is only Mormon polytheism coming through.

No one here is judging individual LDS members or anyone else. We can judge the teachings of Mormonism…

So explain how you are not judging individual LDS members when, according to my Mormon friends, their teachings are misunderstood. To them, it is like my Mormon friends saying what Catholicism really is, according to them, and they have never been Catholic.