Not I. No plans ever to come to Catholicism.So, go ahead and join the CoJCoLDS. Find out what it is about. If you ever realize you were deceived, we will be waiting with open arms.
Batman,Hmm. I was told that because I left the “church” and denied it’s teachings and precepts that I would be cast into Outer Darkness with Lucifer and his angels as a Son of Perdtion, and that only by repentence, accepting the “church” as the only holders of the proper authority and embrace the “Fulness of the Gospel” could I hope to achieve a glory. Oddly enough, when asked about that possibility, I was asked only if I supported (then president) Gordon Hinckely as “prophet”. There was no mentioning of Jesus.
Yea more than likely. Clearly they didnt what, doctrinally speaking in Mormonism, what a son of perdition is and how one becomes one.Marie, it was a mormon bishop. I’m thinking it was a guilt trip
In 3 Nephi 19, we read that some Nephites prayed to Jesus. Is it proper to pray to him?
Beth T. Spackman, seminary teacher, Midnapore, Alberta.
In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus gave specific instructions about whom we should pray to: “Our Father which art in heaven.” (See Matt. 6:5–13.) He gave similar instructions to the Nephites. (See 3 Ne. 13:5–13.) The Father’s name is hallowed. It is to him that we should pray, asking that his will be done. During his ministry, both in the Old World and in the New, Jesus, our exemplar, always prayed to the Father. In 3 Nephi, chapter 19, however, we read that Jesus’ disciples prayed directly to him. (See 3 Ne. 19:18, 24–25, 30.) Perhaps the key to this unusual behavior is found in verse 22, where Jesus explains that “they pray unto me because I am with them.” (Italics added.) Jesus made this comment while praying to the Father for the welfare of his disciples. (See 3 Ne. 19:19–23.)
Apparently, while he was in their presence, praying to him was acceptable.
Elder Bruce R. McConkie Parenthetical sidenote: You knew he was going to be quoted in this, right?****] clearly explained what our relationship with each member of the Godhead should be, pointing out that some misguided members of the Church may “begin to pray directly to Christ because of some special friendship they feel has been developed” with him. This is wrong, said Elder McConkie. We should pray directly to the Father, and he will answer our prayers as he sees fit. We should not select one member of the Godhead for a special relationship. Elder McConkie also pointed out that we should have reverence for all the members of the Godhead. (See “Our Relationship with the Lord,” in Brigham Young University 1981–82 Fireside and Devotional Speeches, Provo: Brigham Young University, 1982, pages 97–103.)
Likewise, we do not pray to the Holy Ghost, even though we may pray for specific gifts of the Holy Ghost—such as the gifts of tongues, comfort, knowledge, or remembrance. We should always pray to the Father. He is the Director, the Supreme Being, the Ultimate Power.
I have been spending a lot of time lately in mental prayer, and it occurred to me that I sincerely struggle with simply talking and relating to Christ in prayer. I always talk to “Father” and rarely to “Lord”. Simply put, I have had a bright light shone into my spiritual life by the grace of God that shows my need to develop that relationship with Christ that I never had as a Mormon. Also, I very rarely ever pray to the Holy Ghost with the exception of verbal prayers such as “Come Holy Spirit”. Even praying to Mary still feels awkward most of the time. I’m sure that this is one of those odd “Mormon Scars” that comes up now and again and I have to deal with it.As we think about our relationship with Christ and our prayers to the Father, it may be helpful for us to think about our premortal life. The Father’s plan was presented for our sustaining vote. Lucifer wanted the power and glory for himself, but Christ, in his wisdom and humility, realized that the honor and glory should go to the Father. For this reason, he said, “When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven.” (Luke 11:2.)
Mormon Prayer - Well, this explains a lot
No, for me it was never a problem. I tended to focus on and pray to Christ even when LDS.In research to one of the many “Seriously, Mormons?” threads on this board, I ran across a facet of my LDS spirituality that had never really occurred to me. Let me share an article I found, with emphasis added by me:
I have been spending a lot of time lately in mental prayer, and it occurred to me that I sincerely struggle with simply talking and relating to Christ in prayer. I always talk to “Father” and rarely to “Lord”. Simply put, I have had a bright light shone into my spiritual life by the grace of God that shows my need to develop that relationship with Christ that I never had as a Mormon. Also, I very rarely ever pray to the Holy Ghost with the exception of verbal prayers such as “Come Holy Spirit”. Even praying to Mary still feels awkward most of the time. I’m sure that this is one of those odd “Mormon Scars” that comes up now and again and I have to deal with it.
Have any of you ex-Mos discovered kinks in your prayer life from this particular doctrine?
This is just another issue to add to my long list of problems with the LDS Church and their idea of “authority.”Mormon bishops are lay members like most of the membership.
When I was LDS, it was beat into me that Catholics were evil. Heck, as missionaries in Honduras, we were taught to teach that Honduras and the other CA countries were in poverty because of the Catholic Church.My prayer life was deficient for years, even though my mormanity was only through cultural contact. To pray to Jesus, and for intercession through Mary and the saints was omething I felt uncomfortable with. Now I know why.
Mormons who post here have alluded to the same.Heck, as missionaries in Honduras, we were taught to teach that Honduras and the other CA countries were in poverty because of the Catholic Church.
twopekinguys,OK, I never got a mormon response to this scripture on another thread, so I will try again here.
Re: Baptisms for the Dead, how does your practice of proxy baptisms square with this scripture from the BoM?
Alma 34:32-35
32 For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; yea, behold the day of this life is the day for men to perform their labors.
33 And now, as I said unto you before, as ye have had so many witnesses, therefore, I beseech of you that ye do not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end; for after this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, behold, if we do not improve our time while in this life, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed.
34 Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world.
35 For behold, if ye have procrastinated the day of your repentance even until death, behold, ye have become subjected to the spirit of the devil, and he doth seal you his; therefore, the Spirit of the Lord hath withdrawn from you, and hath no place in you, and the devil hath all power over you; and this is the final state of the wicked.
Joseph stole some rocks he called seer stones that he said would help him find treasure. They didn’t. But they amazingly allowed him to translate into King James English from something called Reformed Egyptian.twopekinguys,
Amulek was speaking in that discourse to a group who had already had the gospel of faith in Christ, repentance and baptism taught to them, but who were “dissenters” and thus needed to be reminded that they should have no thought of “repenting” in the spirit world, for that would mean they had procrastinated (and knew better).
I remember teaching a young man who was very impressed by verse 34 in its clarity that a person will have the “same spirit” in the spirit world as they have in this life–meaning the same inclination toward repentance and having faith in Christ.
So one who lived by the highest truths they knew (such as sincere love for others, acts of service and kindness, etc.), but who didn’t have the gospel of repentance and baptism by divine authority taught to them in this life, would have had an inclination toward repentance and toward a belief in God if they are going to be one of those who accepts the gift of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost in the spirit world, (which they didn’t have the opportunity to receive while living their mortal life).
That means they didn’t “procrastinate” repentance or baptism, and they don’t have a “different spirit” or different inclination in the spirit world than they had during their mortal life.
Amulek was reiterating the importance of making the decision to repent “today”, to really change deep within one’s heart, to “prepare to meet God” during one’s mortal life when one has the gospel taught to them, for “now is the time”.
twopekinguys,
The verses you cited from Deuteronomy and Leviticus show that someone who opens themselves up to being deceived by “spiritists” or “mediums” is forewarned about doing that, and the children of Israel were forewarned that the nations around them had these kinds of people among them. Supposing an Israelite were to seek the notoriety of being a “medium” just like those being described–then that would mean they were being deceived by an evil spirit, and could easily deceive others. That is the reason for the harsh punishment–because the Israelites were going to be “easily” deceived due to their prior experience in Egypt, and their predisposition to want “signs and wonders” on which to base their faith. This is also because there are indeed “evil spirits” who are fighting God’s purposes on this earth, and who will deceive if given the chance.
Well…considering Joseph claimed he was visited by a Spaniard, a lizard, and later an angel…I think the verse applies
By the time Joseph Smith actually received the Golden plates for the purpose of translating them (September 1827), his faith had been sufficiently proven by God that he would not use the Urim and Thummim or the seer stones for the wrong reason, so at that point he was known to be one who could be trusted by God with the important assignment of translating the ancient record and having it published.
Yet, even after that, he tried using the stones to find buried treasure, though he had given his word he would not do that
One could compare what Moses did in Pharaoh’s court, in that Moses cast down his staff and it became a serpent, and so did the magicians, but what mattered is that Moses was doing it by the commandment of God to get Pharaoh’s attention to “let the Israelites go”, and the magicians were doing it by their magic or as a “sign” or a “wonder” to deceive the Pharaoh.
Except that Moses used his staff, Joseph was using stones he had stolen