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snarflemike
Guest
I’m glad you’re here to remind us that not all Protestants believe the mainline Evangelical teachings (or the fundamentalist teachings).
And you’re quite charitable to boot.
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And you’re quite charitable to boot.
po18guy
Well-known member
Jon, it is such simple and direct thinking that leads ultimately to unity. Some just won’t have that.
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MarisaJean
Guest
The bible also states follow what is written and unwritten…
You can question every point you want to but think about this…Who founded the first church…Jesus…and what Church was that…the Catholic church!!! So along they way when people didn’t agree with what they church taught they began a new church with less rules or different views or lets follow only what the bible says even though it clearly states there are things to follow that were not written in the bible. By doing this they all fell away from the first Church, the Catholic Church which was started by Jesus himself.
I’ve been to many churches in my life and tried to learn what they taught but in the end I always knew there was more and I found all that and more in the Catholic Church. I hope one day you find the same and come home to Jesus’s Church as well. God bless
You can question every point you want to but think about this…Who founded the first church…Jesus…and what Church was that…the Catholic church!!! So along they way when people didn’t agree with what they church taught they began a new church with less rules or different views or lets follow only what the bible says even though it clearly states there are things to follow that were not written in the bible. By doing this they all fell away from the first Church, the Catholic Church which was started by Jesus himself.
I’ve been to many churches in my life and tried to learn what they taught but in the end I always knew there was more and I found all that and more in the Catholic Church. I hope one day you find the same and come home to Jesus’s Church as well. God bless
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Makko52
Guest
I want to contradict you just a bit snarflemike, but as my friend po18guy states i am here to learn and not debate. (thank you very much for reminding me of that!) So i appreciate everyones insight. I am getting a very good look into the Catholic faith. It is helping me in my studies tromendesly!
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FrKimel
Guest
Regarding the charge of cannibalism, which is often advanced both the Catholic and Orthodox positioins, see MIchael Foley’s “The Eucharist & Cannibalism.”
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Makko52
Guest
Thank you! ill read that.
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PJM
Guest
THANKS for your post!
There are several points that require clairification to gain RIGHT understanding.
First there is biblical evidence that the Apostles DID accept, believe, and practice what they [ALL] preached. Mt. 26, Mk. 14, Lk.22. John 6 and Paul 1 Cor. 11.
The early Mass was termed and known “As the Breaking of the Bread”
Luke.24: 35 “Then they told what had happened on the road, and how he was known to them in the **breaking of the bread.” **
Acts.2: 42-46 " And they devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and fellowship, to **the breaking of bread and the prayers. ** And fear came upon every soul; and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles. And all who believed were together and had all things in common; and they sold their possessions and goods and distributed them to all, as any had need. ***And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they partook of food with glad and generous hearts, ***
point 2: You are right about them “converting and being saved only from the Eucharist” that they participated in.
The Eucharist is ONLY a [thee BEST] “means to the end being Salvation.” In and of itself it does not “cause salvtion” as a Moral absolute.
One must understand tha in order to “qualify” to be able to receive the Most Holy Eucharist; one must: 1. Be a Baptized Catholic 2. Be without unConfessed / unremitted Mortal sins [John 20:23]; and believe in the “real Pressence as Christ.”
Later the Church as is Her Rght and Grave Obligation [Mt.16:19] also required a period of “fasting” that is now 1 hour b4 Mass. It was prior to Vatican II; 12 hours.
The Eucharist can, and does conditionally “lead to Eternal Life” becuse it REALLY IS the Glorified Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus/ God Himself and thee single greatest source of Grave available to humanity. But again it is a means to the end; not the end itself.
God Bless,
pat/PJM
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PJM
Guest
.] It is those who do NOT discern the body that are wrong.
[Act2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and **BREAKING BREAD from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,]
Lk24:30 And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them. 31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight. 32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures? 33 And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them, 34 Saying, The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon. 35 And they told what things were done in the way, AND HOW HE WAS KNOWN OF THEM IN BREAKING OF BREAD.
Acts2:38 Then Peter said unto them, REPENT, and BE BAPTIZED EVERY ONE OF YOU in the name of Jesus Christ FOR the REMISSION OF SINS, and ye shall RECEIVE the gift of THE HOLY GHOST. 39 For the promise is unto you, AND to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call. 40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, SAVE YOURSELVES from this untoward generation. 41 Then THEY THAT gladly RECEIVED HIS WORD WERE BAPTIZED: and the same day there were ADDED UNTO THEM about three thousand souls. 42 And THEY CONTINUED stedfastly IN the APOSTLES’ DOCTRINE and FELLOWSHIP, and IN BREADKING OF BREAD, and IN PRAYERS.
[Eph5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26 **That he might SANCTIFY and CLEANSE it WITH THE WASHING OF WATER BY THE WORD]
They were saved and added to the body of Christ at baptism and continued in ONE VISIBLE FELLOWSHIP gathered around the Apostles. Breading of Bread=Eucharist or Mass. As Catholics we also continue stedfastly gathered around the successors of the Apostles, our Bishops, in ONE visible fellowship and apostolic doctrine, breaking bread=mass,worship and prayers.
[Acts20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight. 8 And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together. 9 And there sat in a window a certain young man named Eutychus, being fallen into a deep sleep: and as Paul was long preaching, he sunk down with sleep, and fell down from the third loft, and was taken up dead. 10 And Paul went down, and fell on him, and embracing him said, Trouble not yourselves; for his life is in him. 11 ** When he therefore was come up again, and had BROKEN BREAD bread, and eaten, and talked a long while, even till break of day, so he departed.]
See also NLT biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%2020:7-11&version=NLT
AWESOME POST! Thank you,
pat/PJM
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Makko52
Guest
Thank you for giving Clarification on what the Catholic Church holds to. I have had a difficult time finding somone who coudl properly explain that by giving the Church’s View, untill i came here.THANKS for your post!
There are several points that require clairification to gain RIGHT understanding.
First there is biblical evidence that the Apostles DID accept, believe, and practice what they [ALL] preached. Mt. 26, Mk. 14, Lk.22. John 6 and Paul 1 Cor. 11.
The early Mass was termed and known “As the Breaking of the Bread”
Luke.24: 35 “Then they told what had happened on the road, and how he was known to them in the **breaking of the bread.” **
Acts.2: 42-46 " And they devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and fellowship, to **the breaking of bread and the prayers. ** And fear came upon every soul; and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles. And all who believed were together and had all things in common; and they sold their possessions and goods and distributed them to all, as any had need. ***And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they partook of food with glad and generous hearts, ***
point 2: You are right about them “converting and being saved only from the Eucharist” that they participated in.
The Eucharist is ONLY a [thee BEST] “means to the end being Salvation.” In and of itself it does not “cause salvtion” as a Moral absolute.
One must understand tha in order to “qualify” to be able to receive the Most Holy Eucharist; one must: 1. Be a Baptized Catholic 2. Be without unConfessed / unremitted Mortal sins [John 20:23]; and believe in the “real Pressence as Christ.”
Later the Church as is Her Rght and Grave Obligation [Mt.16:19] also required a period of “fasting” that is now 1 hour b4 Mass. It was prior to Vatican II; 12 hours.
The Eucharist can, and does conditionally “lead to Eternal Life” becuse it REALLY IS the Glorified Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus/ God Himself and thee single greatest source of Grave available to humanity. But again it is a means to the end; not the end itself.
God Bless,
pat/PJM
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snarflemike
Guest
You’re a very gentle soul.
You should know that “what does God really teach us?” did not just become a problem with the advent of sola Scriptura. The Church has had numerous councils through the ages precisely to work out, guided by the Holy Spirit, the details and implications of the teachings given by Christ to the apostles. This is what Jesus meant when he said he would send a paraclete to guide them into all truth. It didn’t happen all at once, but rather it continues to happen down through the ages.
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PJM
Guest
God places each of us togeather for HIS purpose.
Awesome reality isn’t it.
God Bless,
pat/PJM
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ignatius777
Guest
an extensive study of John chapter 6 will be your best bet to understand this doctrine. If you want to discuss it let me knowI recently had an discussion with a Catholic Priest in Gate City Va. He was very graciouse and kind to me, and I have a Great Deal of respect for him for taking time out of his busy schedule to speak to a non-Catholic on some very deep questions on some of the dotrcines of the Catholic Faith. That being said one of the questions i asked him was about Transubstantiation. He gave me some very good information on it. I wanted some clarification on How the bread and wine are turned into the actual and literal body and blood of Jesus Christ: and how it MAY contradict with scripture.
So the first thing i would like calification on is “Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.” John 6:53-54 Now if one were to take just that one verse it would almost seem that is teaching cannabilsm but if you read the versus before that i believe it clarifies it. …now i say that very humbley becuase i am quite ignorant when it come to Catholic Doctrine. I’d appreciate any repsonse on the following verses on cannabilsm.
“But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.” Genesis 9:4
“… No soul of you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger that sojourneth among you eat blood.” Leviticus 17:12
Would God ever command His children to do something He had already forbidden?
One other thing. The priest told me about the verse in John 6. where it states that it is his body and blood. Are we to take it litterly? What about when He said He was the door in John 10:7 “Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.” Does that mean that Jesus is Litery a door made of wood?(or other material?) or could it possibly be symbolic stating that He(Jesus) is the only way into Heaven? I would appreciate any clarification on it!
Thank you in advance
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in_servitude
Guest
Please add Exodus Ch 12 to the study, too!
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ignatius777
Guest
Yes I did not mean to ignore Ex 12 just that Jesus speaks specifically in John 6 about the truth of the bread being his flesh. No symbolism in sight
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Makko52
Guest
The difference between them and us is they had the witnesses of Jesus who then in turn wrote what we call the new testament. At that point they had the people who heard the words from Jesus himself! The Holy Spirit of God brought to thier rememberence what Jesus told them.
Hebrews 2:3 “How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; wich at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed uto us by them that heard him;”
Hebrews 2:3 “How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; wich at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed uto us by them that heard him;”
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feed_me
Guest
Alright folks, this is what actully happens when during transubstatiation(or whatever the spelling is called). When the Priest at the alter does the blessing of the bread and wine, and he brings his hands down upon the host, that little waffer and the wine in the cup… are transforming to the body and blood of Christ. It’s not what you physically see, it is what is happing behind the scenes, the curtain, spritual side where the angels, demons, and Spirit of God are invisible. Now when the Priest blesses the host, the Spirit of the Lord is coming down upon that host and wine, and dwelling in them. When you go up and take that host, and wine, you take the Spirit of the Lord into you, You don’t eat him physically, but you take him into you spirtually. The physical side of the bread passes through you like a regular piece of food on its way to the next hole in the ground, but the spirit stays in you. It is all done on the spirtual side. That is the reason why St. Paul said that you should not take the host in a state of sin, or you commit sacraledge, a graive sin against God. The Holy Spirit cannot be in the presents of sin. For your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit.
Does that clear things up?
Does that clear things up?
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Ubenedictus
Guest
i think you missed one link 2tim2:2. The apostle werent really into the business of writing all they knew on paper none of the letters say they wanted to write down all they know instead 2tim seems to suggest that they taught all the necessaries to others. It was transmitted from generation to generation through word of mouth. What do you say?
Ubenedictus
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Makko52
Guest
Interesting point of view. Let me give some scriptures that i think show how i feel about the word
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Jud 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified [it] by his angel unto his servant John:
Rev 1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
I believe that everything that God wanted us to know is in the book, does everyone believe this? no, and i am ok with that.
Hbr 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hbr 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
I believe that the apostles and disciples of Jesus did not teach anything that contradicted with the scripture, and God moved them through the Holy Spirit to write down everything we need to know.
But, this is how i feel about it, based on scripture. I do not expect everyone to feel that way nor do I condem them if they dont
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Makko52
Guest
I have been studying on the Apocrypha and have a question for my Catholic friends.
Is it true that the Apocrypha were not included as Scripture until the Council of Trent.
from 1540 to 1547 where it was made canonical? ( I know not all of the books of the Apocrypha are considered Holy Scripture)
I would appreciate your thoughts and references!
Is it true that the Apocrypha were not included as Scripture until the Council of Trent.
from 1540 to 1547 where it was made canonical? ( I know not all of the books of the Apocrypha are considered Holy Scripture)
I would appreciate your thoughts and references!
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