MERGED: (UN Jurist:) Pope must answer for crimes against humanity

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From the Sydney Morning Herald:
WELL may the Pope defy ‘‘the petty gossip of dominant opinion’’. But the Holy See can no longer ignore international law, which now counts the widespread or systematic sexual abuse of children as a crime against humanity.
The anomalous claim of the Vatican to be a state - and of the Pope to be a head of state and hence immune from legal action - cannot stand up to scrutiny.
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And it goes downhill from there.

Some people will ask “why post this tripe”? I can’t speak for anybody else, but I think it is critical for us to be aware of the attacks against the person of the Holy Father and against Holy Mother Church. We need to understand the urgency of the times.

If you haven’t said a prayer for the Holy Father’s intentions today…this evening even…it’s high time you do so.
 
It is comforting to know that I have you, and many in company, joint in prayer for the Holy Father as well as for our priests, brothers and nuns who live in fulfillment of their vocations.
 
markomalley said:
Some people will ask “why post this tripe”? I can’t speak for anybody else, but I think it is critical for us to be aware of the attacks against the person of the Holy Father and against Holy Mother Church. We need to understand the urgency of the times.
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You`re dead right. “Know your enemy.”

The Sydney Morning Herald (along with its stablemates) specialises in anti-Catholicism. It tried to ruin WYD 2008 by raking up some priest sexual abuse scandal thing to try to destroy Cardinal Pell just before the start of it.

Robertson should be made to "answer for crimes (of slander) ***against" ***the good name of a prominent public figure; and suspended from his “profession” until the verdict is handed down. And then…?
Or do he and his type have immunity?

Yet again: the vultures are going to be disappointed, though.

Theres one good thing about all of this: the enemy has revealed himself; and were not boxing with shadows any more.
The Ancient Serpent from Genesis 3.
 
  • Praying daily for our Holy Father and his intentions and especially during this time of crisis in The Church
  • For the victims of abuse and those who have abused, for those who may have acted to cover these crimes up
  • That our heirarchy handle this crisis according to God’s Will for the wellbeing of all involved, the Universal Church and mankind generally
  • Making simple acts of penance daily and also striving to embrace joyfully daily involuntary penances for all the intentions of The Sacred Heart at this time especially
  • Sacred Heart of Jesus, have Mercy on us
  • Our Lady of Fatima, pray for us
  • St Joseph, Patron of The Church, pray for
  • All angels and saints, pray for us
 
What kind of “jurist” is that? I am one and that is rubbish. This is not to undermine his competence otherwise–being a QC (Queen’s Counsel in Commonwealth countries) means he must have made a long way in his profession, but when doing this, he’s abandoning certain core aspects of the sound doctrine of international law. The Vatican is a state, just like any other microstate is, while the Holy See has by long custom been the proper international law entity and could well exist without the Vatican anyway. Any important treaties are signed by the Holy See, whereas only infrastructure, facilities etc. are handled under the Vatican.

There are no crimes against humanity for the Pope to answer for, as you can only commit a crime by your own action or omission and in case of certain leadership crimes, by being tolerant of crimes of your subordinates, which is a form of your own omission anyway. But no criminal lawyer worth his salt has ever heard of criminal responsibility merely for being the head of an organisation in which something happens (well, in fact, this is done sometimes, e.g. in some jurisdictions the CEO can go to jail if a secretary from a backwater office in a different part of the country uses illegal software at work, but this is complete rubbish in light of any sane legal doctrine :rolleyes:) or happened before you went into office.

For the record, I don’t support the idea of impunity for those who swore victims into secrecy, especially under threat of ecclesiastical sanction, or even for those who shuffled the offenders around, allowing them to target new groups of children–especially after they already reoffended at least once.
 
It isn’t clear what jurist, if any, made such remarks. In the U.S. jurists usually opine only on matters before them, not spout advisory opinions. I doubt any jurist sitting in a judicial office made such a remark.

As for crimes against humanity, persons in authority can be, and have been, punished for the actions of subordinates. (See Nuremberg Trials, Adolf Eichmann, etc.)
 
OriginalJS said:
As for crimes against humanity, persons in authority can be, and have been, punished for the actions of subordinates. (See Nuremberg Trials, Adolf Eichmann, etc.)
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Only when the actions were part of a policy set up by the person in authority or when such a person knew about and tolerated such behaviour, never just because someone down the ladder did something. Eichmann wasn’t a weak boss who failed to counteract his rogue subordinates.
 
Many private prophecies hold that there would come a day when the Pope would be driven from Rome. Are we moving closer to that day?

Jesus told Saint Faustina to prepared the world for His Second Coming by letting the world know of His great and boundless mercy. Are we moving closer to that day? Why was she told to prepare us now?

I am concerned for the Pope. I feel there is a rabid and evil attack on him, and may God bless and protect our Holy Father according to His perfect will.
 
markomalley said:
WELL may the Pope defy ‘‘the petty gossip of dominant opinion’’. But the Holy See can no longer ignore international law, which now counts the widespread or systematic sexual abuse of children as a crime against humanity.
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Isn’t the UN pushing abortion on the world? Talk about your crimes against humanity…
 
Dandelion_Wine said:
Isn’t the UN pushing abortion on the world? Talk about your crimes against humanity…
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Funny how the widespread abuse of children and minors in every walk of life seems to mean nothing to them, but what the Church is guilty of is worthy of being called crimes against humanity…
 
The absurdidty is that this pope has been a leader in trying to get rid of the problems of abuse and concealment in the Church. Charges against him would never stick - there is no evidence because he hasn’t done anything criminal.

But we should be encouraged by all this. It shows what a great pope he is, that the forces of evil are so angry. We should pray for him, but we shouldn’t worry too much: we know who wins in the long run, and we know the Holy Father after serving for hopefully quite a few more years will get to be with God. We have nothing to fear 🙂
 
I was appalled when I first read an article at the suggestion that the Pope be brought to international court for these crimes since he has worked against them and he is not at fault for these priests who are clearly mentally disturbed. I agree, we must continue to pray for our Holy Father, these are trying times and I find it so ironic that this is the ‘Year of the Priest’ and the sacred vocation is coming under such vehement attacks…more reason we have to pray for all priests and nuns.

Unfortunately, being anti-Catholic has become super fashionable…no surprise that those who follow Christ and His Church would come under attack. This is also a great way to lend less credibility to the Church when it comes to issues of abortion, same-sex marriage, euthanasia, etc…But I have hope because of Matthew 16:18 '…the gates of Hell will never prevail against Christ’s Church’.
 
They will not prevail. But eventually the Antichrist will lay siege to the very Church itself. They will try very hard to destroy the Church and there will be many lies told about Catholics and many persecutions. It will be a difficult time. But we know how the story ends, because in many ways it ended with Christ’s glorious Resurrection: eternal victory.
 
Adeodatus said:
They will not prevail. But eventually the Antichrist will lay siege to the very Church itself. They will try very hard to destroy the Church and there will be many lies told about Catholics and many persecutions. It will be a difficult time. But we know how the story ends, because in many ways it ended with Christ’s glorious Resurrection: eternal victory.
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During this week leading up to Divine Mercy Sunday, I am a bit of a broken record.

There must be profoundly important reasons that Jesus told Saint Faustina to prepare the world for His Second Coming. I seriously doubt Jesus meant He would return in hundreds of years, or thousands of years.

I think there are many indicators that we are living in very unique times.

Jesus to Saint Faustina:

*
You will prepare the world for My final coming. (Diary 429)

Speak to the world about My mercy … It is a sign for the end times. After it will come the Day of Justice. While there is still time, let them have recourse to the fountain of My mercy. (Diary 848)

Tell souls about this great mercy of Mine, because the awful day, the day of My justice, is near. (Diary 965).

I am prolonging the time of mercy for the sake of sinners. But woe to them if they do not recognize this time of My visitation. (Diary 1160)

Before the Day of Justice, I am sending the Day of Mercy. (Diary 1588)

He who refuses to pass through the door of My mercy must pass through the door of My justice. (Diary 1146).​
*

Our Lady to Saint Faustina:

You have to speak to the world about His great mercy and prepare the world for the Second Coming of Him who will come, not as a merciful Savior, but as a just Judge. Oh how terrible is that day! Determined is the day of justice, the day of divine wrath. The angels tremble before it. Speak to souls about this great mercy while it is still the time for granting mercy. (Diary 635​

Those statements were made in the 1930s and at that time there was “still time” for mercy. However, we are now over 70 years from then, how much time of mercy is left?

Also, those statements were recorded by a Canonized Saint, and the Church has listened to our Lord and has (as of the year 2000) finally instituted the day of mercy as the Lord stated it should do. All of this MUST have meaning to us and to the world.
 
It will never happen.

Imagine if some UN outfit grabbed the Pope outside Vatican City or just went in and got him. How many of the 1 billion Catholics on this earth would gladly travel to The Hague or wherever, to liberate him? I know I would, and they would have to shoot me to stop me.
 
OriginalJS said:
It isn’t clear what jurist, if any, made such remarks. In the U.S. jurists usually opine only on matters before them, not spout advisory opinions. I doubt any jurist sitting in a judicial office made such a remark.
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From a quick look at Wikipedia, it appears that the author until 2007 served on the UN Special Court for Sierra Leone. That would make him a former UN jurist. Although I’m not sure why that’s part of the thread title, since it’s not included in the article title.
 
Digitonomy said:
Although I’m not sure why that’s part of the thread title, since it’s not included in the article title.
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You will note that it is in parenthesis, thus setting it off from the original article title as a clarification.

He is identified as a UN jurist as that is how he was identified in a number of other articles that talked about this editorial he wrote (rather than posting the articles talking about his editorial, I decided it would be better to post his actual editorial so that folks could read for themselves what he said and make up their minds themselves.

If I am in error about doing so (i.e., if I should have posted an article talking about the editorial vice the editorial itself), please accept my humble apologies.
 
The Pope facing an international court on charges of crimes against humanity.:rotfl:
Even,this ‘jurist’ would have to acknowledge that simply making an accusation wouldn’t hold in anything resembling a court.It would have to be backed up by evidence, and any rudimentary research would bring up sufficient evidence in the Popes defence. In any case, this is the stuff of fantasy.

Ridgerunner, I think I’m with you on this one.
 
UN Judge Says Pope Should be Prosecuted at International Criminal Court

By Susan Yoshihara, Ph.D.

(NEW YORK – C-FAM) In London last Friday, a high ranking United Nations (UN) jurist called on the British government to detain Pope Benedict XVI during his upcoming visit to Britain, and send him to trial in the International Criminal Court (ICC) for “crimes against humanity.”
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 Geoffrey Robertson touted his status as a UN judge in an article he published last week claiming that jurists should invoke the same procedures that have been used to indict war criminals such as Slobodan Milosevic. To try the Pope as head of the Roman Catholic Church who is ultimately responsible for sexual abuse of children by Catholic priests.

 Robertson is one of five select jurists in the UN’s internal justice system responsible for holding UN officials accountable for corruption and mismanagement. His article was published in both the United States and Britain and reported on by the Associated Press.

 Professor Hurst Hannum of the Fletcher School at Tufts University told the Friday Fax that it would be a “real stretch” to use the ICC since that court’s jurisdiction is mainly reserved for crimes during war. More likely, Hannum said, is that Robertson and likeminded experts would invoke the principle of “universal jurisdiction” so that national courts all over the world could detain the pope whenever he stepped foot on their soil. Critics say the principle, already used in practice, is a violation of sovereignty as it is enshrined in the UN Charter.

 Yet Robertson insisted that the ICC could be used as long as the Pope’s sovereign immunity was waived and as long as jurists can show that the sex abuse scandal was carried out on a “widespread or systematic scale,” the way that child soldiers were used in the wars in Sierra Leone and the way that sex slaves are traded internationally.

 Robertson, a tort lawyer, argued that prosecution at a higher level of the Church is necessary to get more money for victims of clergy sexual abuse in cases where dioceses have gone into bankruptcy. He specifically pointed out the fact that the diocese of Los Angeles has already paid $660M in damages and Boston has paid $100M.
One prominent law professor told the Friday Fax, “Without in any way minimizing the seriousness of the alleged offenses of Catholic priests, it would be a grave mistake to the laws of human rights to permit a trivializing of the responsibility to protect, and to play into the hands of American contingency-fee lawyers.”
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 Another human rights lawyer told the Friday Fax that the article could be part of a broader campaign.  Robertson has long campaigned to strip the Holy See of its permanent observer status at the UN, and has publicly referred to the Holy See “the world’s largest NGO.”

 When a campaign was launched to oust the Holy See from its status in 1999, UN Member States rallied around the Vatican, and in 2004 the General Assembly voted unanimously to expand that status. It is unclear whether UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon knew about Robertson’s leanings before appointing him to his current position.
(Source)
 
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