MERGED: What exactly IS Charismatic Catholicism?/Baptism in the Spirit?

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I’ve already received the baptism in the Holy Spirit, via the sacraments of Baptism and Confirmation.
The whole baptism in the Holy Spirit thing isn’t meant to replace the Sacraments. That’s one thing people can complain about; poor terminology which then gets people hung up on things 😦
My problem (?) is that I have issues with special effects Christianity.
Same here. Sometimes incense smells horrible! 😃
 
The whole baptism in the Holy Spirit thing isn’t meant to replace the Sacraments. That’s one thing people can complain about; poor terminology which then gets people hung up on things 😦
I never accused the Charismatic movement of trying to replace the sacraments, but if somebody asks me if I’ve had the Baptism of the Holy Spirit that is my answer (which somebody brought up in another post here). That’s the same answer I give to Pentecostals BTW.

I’m not fond of the smell of incense sometimes, but I know it’s real. However, when I see most people speaking in tongues, I’m fairly certain they’re not speaking anything that resembles a real language.
 
. My job was to catch people who would “fall in the Spirit”. I remember seeing a big guy and praying “Please God, not this one …”.
Well, I’ve “fallen out.” I didn’t mean to. I mean, I’d heard of it but never been to any of those kinds of churches. I just went to what was called a “healing service” in the bulletin at my Parish. It’s a very long story, but I was completely shocked when I realized what was going on. I was also in the midst of a pretty intense spiritual experience just being there.

Briefly, I can tell you that when he started to pray over me, I could feel something start to “push” against my body. I actually rocked back and pushed back. It was like having the edge of a big invisible sphere meet your chest/stomach. I decided I would not fight it, but let whatever God sent me happen. (Understand, we’d already had Mass, first, then started this.) When I made the surrender choice it came back and over/through me and I cannot describe the immensity of the power. I fell because it was like being a puppet with the strings cut. Or having someone unplug me. I fell back instead of down in a heap because it pushed me back as it passed. In a few minutes I felt perfectly normal again.

I did not lose consciousness. I have no idea what it was. It was not the experience I sought. It was overwhelming. And real. He did not touch me. He was not himself a very charismatic guy, as in his personality. He was, in fact, a fairly dour curmudgeonly type. If I knew he was around doing this near me, I wouldn’t seek it out. I have no idea what it was. I didn’t have some sudden great spiritual insight or healing or change. I did have a miraculous healing a few months later, and maybe this set that stage, I don’t know.

I’ve always wished I could talk to some others and see what their subjective experience is of falling out and see if it matched mine. There was a Japanese researcher who reported that people emit electromagnetic waves from the palms of their hands and foreheads, it was a brief blurb in Discover. Now, maybe some folks can direct that, I don’t know.
People would fall all over the place, speak in “tongues” (99% of which were clearly gibberish),
Again, BTDT. I have no idea if it was some sort of “language” because I believe myself it’s gibberish. But it has purpose as that. Let me explain - going very far back to childhood, in my non-church going, nominally-Protestant, Father in the Masonic Lodge childhood - I would have this urge to speak in gibberish to God. I also would have the urge to lie facedown and the floor to do that. Which I resisted because how stupid and crazy is that? But I very often wanted to.

After I converted in my 40s and began a serious prayer practice, this urge came back strongly. I gave into it, but never in front of anyone. Here’s what I think. I think our soul knows exactly what we need a but we don’t. I’m a coward, I’m not praying for suffering, but maybe I need that. When I prayed in this way, I was just engaging my whole self, physically and mentally and in this surrendering way, to speak what God already knew that I didn’t. So, if I needed to suffer, I’d be praying for that. I have no idea how to ask for what I need. God knows. I didn’t need to do this very often, but at one point, it seemed to come up regularly in the empty church I prayed in. Then it was pretty much gone. If it comes back, I’ll do it again.

I don’t know what other people are doing. What happened in Acts was not them speaking a variety of languages, I don’t think. What happened was them speaking and everyone hearing in their own language. I have read of someone who was lost in the African wilderness in the 50s and stumbled onto a tribe that seemed like they were going to kill her and she prayed and spoke and they understood and she did not. I believe that happened.

I think if you don’t want it or feel it, then you don’t do it. I think it’s true that there are people “faking” it - but even they don’t know that. I think we can’t judge this from the outside.

I don’t like “movements.” I liked my Parish where all these things were part of the normal Parish life, which was actually pretty Traditional. I think they should always be part of every Parish and there need to be very active pray-ers in all Parishes and also structures within which to operate so folks don’t go off on their own in love with some experience instead of Christ in the Eucharist.
 
Yet another thread on this…

So I would define a charismatic Catholic as: living the Christian life with the awareness of the graces of baptism and confirmation (Pentecost), especially through an experience that is perhaps very misleadingly called “baptism in the Holy Spirit”, by striving to be open to the constant working of the Holy spirit especially through the charismatic gifts. This doesn’t necessarily have to be in association with the charismatic movement. The movement’s purpose is not to be its own entity. It should be something that brings back an emphasis on an important aspect of our faith greatly neglected for many centuries.

The movement itself was called a “current of grace” by Fr. Raniero Cantelemessa, which I like. 🙂 Cardinal Suenens said: “To interpret the [Charismatic] Renewal as a movement among other movements is to misunderstand its nature; it is a movement of the Spirit offered to the entire Church and destined to rejuvenate every part of the Church’s life. The soul of the renewal—Baptism in the Spirit—is a grace of Pentecostal refreshment offered to all Christians”. - Cardinal Suenens

The last three Popes (not counting John Paul I, of course) have praised this as a chance for the Church and the world, and recalling something essential to the very nature of the Church.

@ Julia Mae: Helpful and interesting stories! Thank you. I would disagree that tongues is gibberish however. I don’t think that’s Church teaching. It is a form of prayer in language(s) you don’t know. I think it sounds like God was moving you to speak in tongues indeed, but it was probably a genuine language!
 
It’s remarkable to see people denigrating an officially recognized charism within the Church simply because it does not follow their personal tastes.
 
First: Please do not focus on tongues to the exclusion of all of the other Charisms of the Holy Spirit - this is a canard that derails a thread. Well, it is one of the most emphasized charisms of the Charismatic movement! Why shouldn’t we focus on this? And, according to St. Paul, no one should speak in tongues unless there is someone there who can translate, so that people can be sure that it is not from the devil.

The movement has been examined, tested and approved by the Church over the past decades - all the way up to John Paul II and Benedict XVI. Fr. Raniero Cantalamessa, the preacher of the Papal household, is a charismatic Priest. Tested? Perhaps the movement in general, but, unfortunately, in specific groups it can, and has, devolved into something entirely different.

As is apparent in most other threads on the charismatic renewal, the “contra” voices have no actual experience with the movement. The baptism in the Holy Spirit has absolutely changed and vastly improved the faith lives of millions, including yours, truly.

A challenge to all who have doubts: Examine it. Test it. Go to a “Life int he Spirit Seminar” Talk to the charismatic Priest or Bishop that is there. Maybe even receive the baptism in the Holy Spirit. Then, come back and render an informed opinion.

Any takers? Even one?

nsc-chariscenter.org/index.asp

ccrno.org/WhatisBaptism.php

I have said my peace.
**I tested it. Twice I signed up for a “Life in The Spirit” seminar. Each one was to take place one evening per week for 6 weeks. I lasted 2 evenings the first time, one evening the second time. There is NO WAY I will ever willingly go to anything remotely Charismatic again.

I had a parish priest for five years who I liked very much. He was Charismatic and frequently spoke in tongues while at the Altar, immediately after the consecration. That totally turned me off. In fact, he was in disobedience to the Pope doing that, as the Pope had instructed “no one, even if he is a priest, has the right to change, add or take away” anything in the Mass.

This same priest used to actively encourage the congregation to sway and clap while singing the Gloria. I never did this, but remained standing quietly, with my hands clasped in prayer. He challenged me about this and told me he was determined to get be to join in the swaying and clapping.

Much as I liked him as a person, I was glad when he moved away from our parish.

Not me and the Charismatic Movement. No way!
**
 
I wouldn’t say it is of the devil. Not at all. Look at the people at pentecost, they spoke in tongues. It’s just a matter of preference. You do not need to speak in tongues to have a spiritual expierence. And just because someone speaks in tongues doesn’t mean they are in any way more special than those who don’t/
yeah, but at pentecost, THEY COULD UNDERSTAND THEM.
 
**First: Please do not focus on tongues to the exclusion of all of the other Charisms of the Holy Spirit - this is a canard that derails a thread. **

The movement has been examined, tested and approved by the Church over the past decades - all the way up to John Paul II and Benedict XVI. Fr. Raniero Cantalamessa, the preacher of the Papal household, is a charismatic Priest.

As is apparent in most other threads on the charismatic renewal, the “contra” voices have no actual experience with the movement. The baptism in the Holy Spirit has absolutely changed and vastly improved the faith lives of millions, including yours, truly.

A challenge to all who have doubts: Examine it. Test it. Go to a “Life int he Spirit Seminar” Talk to the charismatic Priest or Bishop that is there. Maybe even receive the baptism in the Holy Spirit. Then, come back and render an informed opinion.

Any takers? Even one?

nsc-chariscenter.org/index.asp

ccrno.org/WhatisBaptism.php

I have said my peace.
sorry, ive already been baptised by water and the holy spirit, thank you very much. :mad:
 
the only reason people “fall in the spirit” is because they “lock their knees in the spirit”
 
po18guy, I have tried it, and it was terrible. The multiple times I tried it, the Mass was filled with abuses and disrespect, and it was chaoitic.

Charasimitic “catholicisim” is a SHAM
 
This same priest used to actively encourage the congregation to sway and clap while singing the Gloria. I never did this, but remained standing quietly, with my hands clasped in prayer. He challenged me about this and told me he was determined to get be to join in the swaying and clapping.

Much as I liked him as a person, I was glad when he moved away from our parish.

Not me and the Charismatic Movement. No way!
I think we all just have our own paths, that come from being unique persons, which is how God created us. I would be where you are with the swaying and clapping - seriously clapping? during the Gloria. See, I think, when you are clearly being led away from something, that** is **charismatic, that’s the Holy Spirit telling you something: this is not your way.

Sometimes I think too many people got involved with the dancing and forgot to listen to the music.
 
the only reason people “fall in the spirit” is because they “lock their knees in the spirit”
Well, that’s not what happened to me, as you can read above. Whatever isn’t for you, isn’t for you. But that’s really all any of us can say about it.
 
I’ve heard that certain groups of Protestants practice a ritual where people lay their hands on a person and ‘baptize’ (?) him in the Holy Spirit, after which the person supposedly starts talking in ‘tongues’. What do Catholics think of this? And is there anything similar that Charismatic Catholics do?
 
Yes, the Charismatic Catholic Renewal uses the same term, but makes it clear that it is no the sacrament of baptism.

The Baptism in the Spirit is not a sacrament, but it is related to the sacraments of Christian initiation. The Baptism in the Spirit makes real and in a way renews Christian initiation. The primary relationship is with the sacrament of Baptism.

The speaking in tonues is one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit listed in 1 Corinthians 12. Acutally Paul says the greatest of the gifts is Love.

If you want to know more about the Baptism of the Holy Spirit check out this link. ccrno.org/WhatisBaptism.php

This link is written by Fr. Raniero Cantalamessa who has been the papal household preacher for John Paul II and Benedict XVI a total of 20 years.
catholiccharismatic.us/ccc/articles/Cantalamessa/Cantalamessa_002.html

I hope these help.
 
Catholics believe in baptism by water (In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit), in priests or bishops conferring the Holy Spirit using specially blessed oil.

We don’t believe in “Baptism in the Spirit”, however, Catholics are free to accept speaking in tongues as a form of private revelation. Catholics must believe that it is possible to speak in “tongues”, as this is revealed in scripture (during Pentecost), but are not obliged to believe in every instances of the phenomenon. It is a matter of discretion.
 
In my opinion (and I believe if you look at it you’ll realize it too), that this like altar calls, are just a protestant replacement of the sacraments. It is their way of affirming that they are christians and their way of being closer to God by being. If it were true it would seem to downplay the importance of baptism and confirmation because baptism in the spirit seems to cause a physical effect. Why isn’t this a sacrament if it is so important and life altering? Why has it only appeared in recent years, instead of throughout history. Really, I wish that when Catholics do turn to the Holy Spirit that they would stop looking to protestants and pentacostals to lead them there.
 
I’ve heard that certain groups of Protestants practice a ritual where people lay their hands on a person and ‘baptize’ (?) him in the Holy Spirit, after which the person supposedly starts talking in ‘tongues’. What do Catholics think of this? And is there anything similar that Charismatic Catholics do?
I learnt many languages but the hard way: studying them. I was never lucky enough to get a free of charge language injection that would put speaking languages…

I guess it happened when the Holy Spirit came into the Apostles and they needed to talk to different people of different languages, and notice that the Acts of the Apostles say that the audience understood them in their own language it does not say that they were speaking several languages.

Well, for me, nowadays, with Google Translation, it is a bit of folklore and it is not the main Mission on Earth of the Holy Spirit which is to make us…HOLY, in any language.
 
The Sacrament of Confirmation is the true “baptism in the Spirit.”

From the Catholic Encyclopedia:
Confirmation
A sacrament in which the Holy Ghost is given to those already baptized in order to make them strong and perfect Christians and soldiers of Jesus Christ.
 
Catholic Charismatic groups that are aligned to the Church prefer the term “Release of the Spirit” since we were baptized in the Spirit at Confirmation. We all received the Holy Spirit at Confirmation. How much difference did it make to you? It is important to find those gifts, not just the Charismatic ones, the Spirit gave you that day and release them into our lives.

The last few weeks I have been attracted to Third Glorious mystery of the Rosary, the Descent of the Spirit on the Apostles. I find that I never truly appreciated how great was the change in them that day. The gifts should make the same changes in us.
 
Most responses here more or less ignored the original question: what about Steubenville, World Youth Day, and contemporary praise music? Is all of that primary Charismatic?
 
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