MERGED: What exactly IS Charismatic Catholicism?/Baptism in the Spirit?

[Colorad007]

It’s one of the fastest growing movements in the Church, it’s generally quite orthodox theologically, and it’s apparently controversial among a lot of traditionalists. The question is: what is Charismatic Catholicism?

On the one hand there’s the charisms of speaking in tongues, healing Masses, being “slain in the Spirit,” and prophesy. Is that it? Because I always see, hear, or read about things like the Steubenville conferences, World Youth Day, I’ve been part of adoration where we kneeled before the Blessed Sacrament with contemporary Christian praise music, and there are many Masses accompanied by that same praise music. Is all of that Charismatic, too?

 

[PiousTemplar]

Probably protestantised Catholicism.

 

[SanAgustin]

It’s one of the fastest growing movements in the Church, it’s generally quite orthodox theologically, and it’s apparently controversial among a lot of traditionalists. The question is: what is Charismatic Catholicism?

On the one hand there’s the charisms of speaking in tongues, healing Masses, being “slain in the Spirit,” and prophesy. Is that it? Because I always see, hear, or read about things like the Steubenville conferences, World Youth Day, I’ve been part of adoration where we kneeled before the Blessed Sacrament with contemporary Christian praise music, and there are many Masses accompanied by that same praise music. Is all of that Charismatic, too?

I call it special effects Catholicism.

Without trying to insult anybody, it really is more of a Pentecostal movement for people who don’t want to leave the Catholic Church. I’m quite familiar with it, and at one time I really thought I was being bad for criticizing it, but my main problem with it is that it shares many of the flaws of Pentecostalism; making people believe that they don’t have “enough faith” if they don’t speak in tongues.

 

[DAAVEED1590]

Its basicly Catholics mimicing protestant worship style and emption while staying orthodox with regard to faith and morals

I would stay away from it…

God Bless and Ave Maria!

 

[DarrenOglesby]

I’m guess it’s just a mass were people speak in tongues and maybe the priest or deacon becomes preaches a fiery homily??

Probably more common in the African American Catholic Churches.

There is a group of Franciscan Friar’s up where I live that occasionally advertise a Charismatic Mass. At the Cathedral for my diocese I saw in one of there online bulletins that they were having a charismatic prayer service.

I myself am curious to see what it is like. Although I prefer traditional NO Masses with the organ only. And Altar Rails.

I have been to a United Methodist Charismatic service. It’s a family church on my father’s side, and I thought a woman was about to pass out, she was screaming so loud. I was scared lol

 

[Julia_Mae]

It’s one of the fastest growing movements in the Church, it’s generally quite orthodox theologically, and it’s apparently controversial among a lot of traditionalists. The question is: what is Charismatic Catholicism?

I’ve been thinking of answering this title question for a while. I think I just miss Colorado. Anyway, when I came into the Church they gave me a sponsor for RCIA who told me she was charismatic the first night when we went for coffee. I said, what’s that mean exactly?

She holds up her coffee spoon and says, “Do you think that if I asked and it was His Will, God would bend this spoon right now?”

I said, “Sure.”

She looked very surprised. “You do?” I laughed. “He’s God, He can do anything He likes. Not sure why He’d want to to spoon tricks, but of course He will if He wants to.”

“That’s what charismatic means,” she says. “Believing in the Holy Spirit being real and present and acting among us.”

I didn’t know everyone didn’t believe this. Whatever goes on in the “Movement” that’s how it was explained to me. Lots of charismatic pray-ers in my Parish, great thriving place with warm people and reverent Masses. There were miracles all around, I just thought it was normal.

sigh

 

[Julia_Mae]

I’m guess it’s just a mass were people speak in tongues and maybe the priest or deacon becomes preaches a fiery homily??

There used to be a regular charismatic Mass held in a chapel on the grounds of the Archdiocese in Denver. It was a nice Mass, the difference was, people would speak themselves about miracles in their lives or ask for healing prayer. There was nothing “fiery” going on except in our hearts. Father invited us into the Sanctuary to gather around the alter for the Eucharistic Mass. As he raised the Body of Christ for us to see, everyone started speaking in tongues, it was a beautiful sound, like singing. This went on for only about half a minute.

It was nice. I liked my own Parish Mass better, but it was very nice.

 

[FatHead]

FYI: 99.99999999% of the time, “speaking in tongues” is a giant sham. There’s no other way to say it.

speaking in tongues is where everyone can understand you. duh.

 

[SanAgustin]

Probably more common in the African American Catholic Churches.

The Charismatic movement is big in the Hispanic community.

“That’s what charismatic means,” she says. “Believing in the Holy Spirit being real and present and acting among us.”

I once volunteered at a Charismatic “retreat” even though I was never one, just to learn more about them. My job was to catch people who would “fall in the Spirit”. I remember seeing a big guy and praying “Please God, not this one …”. I noticed the guy praying over the people who would fall would do a little “massage” over their heads as they prayed with their eyes closed, it wasn’t very surprising why people were falling to be quite honest.

People would fall all over the place, speak in “tongues” (99% of which were clearly gibberish), and the whole experience was just like something you would see at a Pentecostal Church … just that everybody around me was Catholic.

It’s also difficult to have a serious discussion with some charismatics. When you point out that what they are saying sounds like gibberish, they’ll tell you it’s a long dead language or an angelic tongue.

 

[SanAgustin]

FYI: 99.99999999% of the time, “speaking in tongues” is a giant sham. There’s no other way to say it.

speaking in tongues is where everyone can understand you. duh.

Hahaha, we posted sat the same time. I was off by 0.99999999%

 

[BigFellaMick]

I’m sorry but speaking in tongues is of the devil. Plain and simple. My ex girlfriends family went to an assembly of god church that worshipped like that. And a lady sitting three rows in front of me in the mega church reminiscent of Joel Osteen’s hysteria, starting convulsing and speaking in tongues. I thought she was having a seizure at first and admit was terrified. But then when everyone around her started getting hysterical I realized it was part of the show. This really bothered me. I felt like I had offended God by being present at this “service”. They claimed it was God speaking through them. I’m sorry. If God wants to physically and literally speak through someone then he could do so with no effort and have them speak fluently. If a demonic entity is trying to force entry onto somebody that their soul is fighting back and their entire being is convulsing and speaking nonsense trying to reject it, as is natural for those imbued with the Holy Spirit, than this is what makes sense. Speaking in tongues should be discouraged. I liken it to playing with ouji boards. You’re asking for trouble by partaking in such unholy things.

 

[DarrenOglesby]

I wouldn’t say it is of the devil. Not at all. Look at the people at pentecost, they spoke in tongues. It’s just a matter of preference. You do not need to speak in tongues to have a spiritual expierence. And just because someone speaks in tongues doesn’t mean they are in any way more special than those who don’t/

 

[4Squarebaby]

The El Shaddai movement in the Philippines are the ones I am around the most.

The Catholic Charismatic Renewal general wiki

 

[SanAgustin]

I’m sorry but speaking in tongues is of the devil. Plain and simple.

Well the Apostle’s spoke in tongues in Pentecost, then again, people around them recognized their languages.

Most of the time people speaking in tongues are not speaking any language but just uttering nonsense. I remember a cousin of mine that admitted to me, he would speak in tongues because he felt bad everybody else did and the Holy Spirit wouldn’t manifest himself in him.

There’s also the gift of prophesy, which is more problematic.

I was at a Charismatic prayer group, and one lady stood up at the end and said “The Lord is telling me that we all must kneel right now”. Really? Imagine what a gift, she has direct literal communication with God, and we just have to accept it.

My friend later suggested we should have responsed, “Well no, the Lord told ME to stay standing up” to see what happened. He also proposed a game were we would say; “The Lord said sit, the Lord said stand, kneel … gotcha I didn’t say ‘The Lord said’”.

 

[po18guy]

**First: Please do not focus on tongues to the exclusion of all of the other Charisms of the Holy Spirit - this is a canard that derails a thread. **

The movement has been examined, tested and approved by the Church over the past decades - all the way up to John Paul II and Benedict XVI. Fr. Raniero Cantalamessa, the preacher of the Papal household, is a charismatic Priest.

As is apparent in most other threads on the charismatic renewal, the “contra” voices have no actual experience with the movement. The baptism in the Holy Spirit has absolutely changed and vastly improved the faith lives of millions, including yours, truly.

A challenge to all who have doubts: Examine it. Test it. Go to a “Life int he Spirit Seminar” Talk to the charismatic Priest or Bishop that is there. Maybe even receive the baptism in the Holy Spirit. Then, come back and render an informed opinion.

Any takers? Even one?

nsc-chariscenter.org/index.asp

ccrno.org/WhatisBaptism.php

I have said my peace.

 

[PatriceA]

It’s one of the fastest growing movements in the Church, it’s generally quite orthodox theologically, and it’s apparently controversial among a lot of traditionalists. The question is: what is Charismatic Catholicism?

On the one hand there’s the charisms of speaking in tongues, healing Masses, being “slain in the Spirit,” and prophesy. Is that it? Because I always see, hear, or read about things like the Steubenville conferences, World Youth Day, I’ve been part of adoration where we kneeled before the Blessed Sacrament with contemporary Christian praise music, and there are many Masses accompanied by that same praise music. Is all of that Charismatic, too?

I know you’re new to the forum, but how about doing a search on the whole forum on this subject before creating another thread? Every day there seems to be a new thread in each of the sub forums about the Charistmatic movement in the Catholic Church on CAF and its always the same question or some point of view and the same people against and the same people defending it.

I think Charismatic Catholics, NFP and the way people dress for mass has got to be the three biggest subjects of threads of any of the forums on CAF.

 

[Heuchler]

The Charismatic movement is big in the Hispanic community.

I once volunteered at a Charismatic “retreat” even though I was never one, just to learn more about them. My job was to catch people who would “fall in the Spirit”. I remember seeing a big guy and praying “Please God, not this one …”. I noticed the guy praying over the people who would fall would do a little “massage” over their heads as they prayed with their eyes closed, it wasn’t very surprising why people were falling to be quite honest.

People would fall all over the place, speak in “tongues” (99% of which were clearly gibberish), and the whole experience was just like something you would see at a Pentecostal Church … just that everybody around me was Catholic.

It’s also difficult to have a serious discussion with some charismatics. When you point out that what they are saying sounds like gibberish, they’ll tell you it’s a long dead language or an angelic tongue.

 

[Heuchler]

The Charismatic movement is big in the Hispanic community.

I once volunteered at a Charismatic “retreat” even though I was never one, just to learn more about them. My job was to catch people who would “fall in the Spirit”. I remember seeing a big guy and praying “Please God, not this one …”. I noticed the guy praying over the people who would fall would do a little “massage” over their heads as they prayed with their eyes closed, it wasn’t very surprising why people were falling to be quite honest.

People would fall all over the place, speak in “tongues” (99% of which were clearly gibberish), and the whole experience was just like something you would see at a Pentecostal Church … just that everybody around me was Catholic.

It’s also difficult to have a serious discussion with some charismatics. When you point out that what they are saying sounds like gibberish, they’ll tell you it’s a long dead language or an angelic tongue.

Yeah this is why I don’t like the Charismatic movement. As a magician I know that the mind is easy to trick and have seen a famous magician derren Brown re-enact a whole faith healing service complete with being slayed in the spirit and all those other “gifts”. Its an emotional high used to convince people that God loves them and that they are special. And its really evident that its all based on emotions because they copied the “gifts” created by the protestants like laughter and crying. That was unheard of until charismatic forms of christianity came along. And I have been to a charismatic retreat and I couldn’t feel God working there. The first night a guy yelled out in a voice of anguish “Forgive me God, forgive me!” and right on cue “the gift” of laughter came as if it was mocking this misguided man. God wouldn’t create such chaos as to leave that man with such anguish and have the cackling burst out as he yelled this. It doesn’t reflect His love

 

[SanAgustin]

**First: Please do not focus on tongues to the exclusion of all of the other Charisms of the Holy Spirit - this is a canard that derails a thread. **

Thanks for bringing this up, I’m trying to be as fair as possible but you’re right something we just focus on the speaking on tongues part. Although I think Charismatics do this themselves too.

As is apparent in most other threads on the charismatic renewal, the “contra” voices have no actual experience with the movement. The baptism in the Holy Spirit has absolutely changed and vastly improved the faith lives of millions, including yours, truly.

I think I come off as a “contra” voice, although I feel like I’ve been a supporter of the movement without being in the movement. I’ve helped in 2 of their retreats, one locally and one that was a trip to North Carolina. When I was in college and I thought I was being too negative, I tried to attend to one of their meetings (it was disastrous), but I work a lot with people who are part of the movement.

You know your post makes me want to revisit it, to see if there’s been a lot of changes in the last few years.

However, I think I’m somewhat familiar with it, plus I’m somewhat familiar with a lot of evangelical sects including Pentecostals so that’s why I draw comparisons from.

A challenge to all who have doubts: Examine it. Test it. Go to a “Life int he Spirit Seminar” Talk to the charismatic Priest or Bishop that is there. Maybe even receive the baptism in the Holy Spirit. Then, come back and render an informed opinion.

I’ve already received the baptism in the Holy Spirit, via the sacraments of Baptism and Confirmation.

My problem (?) is that I have issues with special effects Christianity.

 

[Melchior_1]

First off, I want to point out the fallacy in saying “it’s all mental” and getting caught up in the externals. You say “charismaticism is all about the externals and it’s in your head!” I could say the same for some traditionalist practices.

Anyway:

"At the heart of a world imbued with a rationalistic skepticism, a new experience of the Holy Spirit suddenly burst forth. And, since then, that experience has assumed a breadth of a worldwide Renewal movement. What the New Testament tells us about the charisms - which were seen as visible signs of the coming of the Spirit - is not just ancient history, over and done with, for it is once again becoming extremely topical.

“… to those responsible for the ecclesiastical ministry - from parish priests to bishops - not to let the Renewal pass them by but to welcome it fully; and on the other (hand) … to the members of the Renewal to cherish and maintain their link with the whole Church and with the charisms of their pastors.”

These quotes were from a forward in a book called Renewal and the Powers of Darkness, (by Leo Cardinal Suenens, at the time delegate to the Charismatic Renewal).

The forward was written by Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, while he was the head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

The movement is endorsed and supported by Rome, which you would think would be good enough.

I don’t expect everyone to like it. I do expect people to respect it and not post inaccurate statements.