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1holycatholic
Guest
The sublime irony is that the Bible is quite clear that it is not the sole rule of faith.
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PRmerger
Guest
That is a tautology and not helpful in advancing the dialogue at all.
Yes, it is the faith given to us by Christ, and handed on through the Apostles and their successors.
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tqualey
Guest
Hi, Araninski,
Actually, the topic (thread) is the location of 40,000+ Protestant denominations - not what is essential or non-essential.
If the idea is that questioning abut essentials vs non-essentials is what lead to 40,000+ Protestant denominations, (or whatever number you feel comfortable with as long as it is larger than one), then tell me, is this why you think there is this multiplicity of Protestant denominations? Or, do you think there is some other reason for this?
God bless
Actually, the topic (thread) is the location of 40,000+ Protestant denominations - not what is essential or non-essential.
If the idea is that questioning abut essentials vs non-essentials is what lead to 40,000+ Protestant denominations, (or whatever number you feel comfortable with as long as it is larger than one), then tell me, is this why you think there is this multiplicity of Protestant denominations? Or, do you think there is some other reason for this?
God bless
T
tqualey
Guest
Hi, 1HolyCatholic,
You know … I have always found that astoundingly ironic. And, to be honest, it would seem that somewhere along the 500 year line someone in a Protestant denomination would have said something like, “Hey! Just where is the basis for SS if the pilar of truth is the Church?” But, I am quite unaware of anyone having done this.
God bless
You know … I have always found that astoundingly ironic. And, to be honest, it would seem that somewhere along the 500 year line someone in a Protestant denomination would have said something like, “Hey! Just where is the basis for SS if the pilar of truth is the Church?” But, I am quite unaware of anyone having done this.
God bless
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PJM
Guest
IF they are:
Informed
Practing Catholics
YES!
Why?
**As Pope Bendict said on the day he became pope:
“There can’t be your truth and my truth or there would be no truth.”**
Love and prayers,
Pat
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PJM
Guest
This was an excellent post!Thank you for the effort you put into this.
THANKS Tom,
Sometimes I wounder if they even get read?
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1holycatholic
Guest
Exactly.
If they are Catholic and believe something other than what the Church teaches and they are not aware that their beliefs are not in accord with the Church then they are in material heresy.
If they are Catholic and believe something other than what the Church teaches and they are aware that their beliefs are not in accord with the Church then they are in formal heresy.
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Araninski
Guest
Yeah you are right, I just wanted to make my point that there may be 40,000 denominations but they (not all) don’t vary on the essentials. There is a new denomination because of a different view on how people should evangelize , someones teach you have to put more focus on the Holy Spirit, others thing its for later after conversion. Or also because one denominations thinks it is better to have a lot of worship and less teaching. And the other thinks its better to have a lot of teaching and moderate worship time. Others that you only need to eat Eucharist and leave. (just kidding
)The differences are not important think about it. Now there are some denominations that do vary on essential things, allowing abortion, gay marriage,saying its OK premarital sex, you can get drunk, smoke, get tattoos, you can have bad-mouth, etc.
PRmerger as always, you don’t address all my post.
I am sure I have the faith handed through the apostles. The Apostles celebrated all of the Jewish (Given by God) Feast do you? The Apostles kept Sabbath holy , do you? Do you have the same exact set of beliefs like them? Oh no? Then you don’t have the same faith as gave to the Apostles
.Yahweh bless you. I guess I’ve made my point.
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Nine_Two
Guest
Given that the Apostles condemned Judaisers and Judaising, yes, you certainly have made your point.I am sure I have the faith handed through the apostles. The Apostles celebrated all of the Jewish (Given by God) Feast do you? The Apostles kept Sabbath holy , do you? Do you have the same exact set of beliefs like them? Oh no? Then you don’t have the same faith as gave to the Apostles
Yahweh bless you. I guess I’ve made my point.
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elvisman
Guest
The Apostles celebrated Jewish customs but found them to be no longer binding. they TAUGHT this to Gentile Christians:I am sure I have the faith handed through the apostles. The Apostles celebrated all of the Jewish (Given by God) Feast do you? The Apostles kept Sabbath holy , do you? Do you have the same exact set of beliefs like them? Oh no? Then you don’t have the same faith as gave to the Apostles
Yahweh bless you. I guess I’ve made my point.
Colossians 1:16-17
Let no one, then, pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink or with regard to a festival or new moon or sabbath.
**These are shadows of things to come; the reality belongs to Christ. **
When teachers went out from among the Apostles who were not sent BY them and taught the Gentiles that they had to adhere to Jewish Law - THIS is what they reposnded with:
Acts 15:28-29
"It is the decision of the holy Spirit and of us not to place on you any burden beyond these necessities, namely, to abstain from meat sacrificed to idols, from blood, from meats of strangled animals, and from unlawful marriage. If you keep free of these, you will be doing what is right. Farewell."
So - yes, we DO possess the faith of the Apostles - the same Catholic faith that they spread throughout the world. The real question is why do you think you do when you reject so many of their teachings?
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PRmerger
Guest
As always? LOL! We’ve had probably the equivalent of a 15 minute conversation, tops, here on the CAFs. I hardly think that qualifies for “always”.
Let’s see you back up your claim. My understanding is that the AoG is, maybe, a century old?I am sure I have the faith handed through the apostles. The Apostles celebrated all of the Jewish (Given by God) Feast do you? The Apostles kept Sabbath holy , do you? Do you have the same exact set of beliefs like them? Oh no? Then you don’t have the same faith as gave to the Apostles
Where’s any writings of AoG ministers in the 2nd century stating how they worshipped?
Can you cite any references for your minister being anointed by a minister who was anointed by a minister……who was anointed by an apostle?
Here’s my list of the faith handed down through the apostles.
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tqualey
Guest
Hi, Araninski,
Chances are, with a wee bit more effort … you could have made a much better point!
Let me explain…
Actually, if you look at Acts 20:7 and 1Cor 16:1-2 you will see the transition from the Sabbath (last day of the week) to Sunday - to add special focus to the Resurrection. Now, we are to observe Sunday as the Lord’s Day, we worship on Sunday and refraim from manual labor on that day out of respect for God’s command to rest. But, this is not the Sabbath as the Jews observe.
Those that practice Judiasm (to the best of my knowledge) are awaiting the Messiah; they do not believe Christ, the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, is God’s Anointed Messiah.
While Christ was a Jew, and His Apostles were all Jews - Christ gave us the New Covenant and fulfilled the Old Covenant. The Law of Moses no longer applies to us. What was handed down by the Apostles was not a belief in Judiasm, but rather a belief in Christ - and specifically, that Christ founded His Church on Peter (Matt 16). There really are some major differences here…and, I hope this has been helpful.
God bless
Chances are, with a wee bit more effort … you could have made a much better point!
Let me explain…But it was this last paragraph that really got my attention. To the best of my knowledge, the Catholic Church does not celebrate ANY Jewish feasts as such. We celebrate Pentecost (and, yes, this is a Jewish feast) but, we celebrate this day as when the Holy Spirit, as recorded in Acts 2, gave special graces to those assembled and Peter went out to preach and 3,000 were baptized that day. Pentecost is really the birthday of the Catholic Church (it was the only Christian Church around at that time - the Reformation would happen 1,500 years later.)Yeah you are right, I just wanted to make my point that there may be 40,000 denominations but they (not all) don’t vary on the essentials.
I don’t want to get too wild here… but, there really are major differences between these groups. For example, your AoG believes that speaking in tongues is essential after baptism (ag.org/top/beliefs/statement_of_fundamental_truths/sft_short.cfm) but, I really do not think any other Protestant group holds to that. I can tell you that the Catholic Church does not believe that. The differences are real, profound and date back to the Luther and Calvin not seeing eye to eye on important matters when getting together would have been mechanically so much easier then. But, that is just speculation on my part.
There is a new denomination because of a different view on how people should evangelize , someones teach you have to put more focus on the Holy Spirit, others thing its for later after conversion.
"]Doesn’t this sound like rather petty material (it left ‘non-essential’ a long time ago…) Araninski? It really does appear minor (compared to the scandal caused to the non-Christians throughout the world with all of these groups having different dogmas - yet claiming to follow Christ)?
Or also because one denominations thinks it is better to have a lot of worship and less teaching. And the other thinks its better to have a lot of teaching and moderate worship time. Others that you only need to eat Eucharist and leave. (just kidding
The differences are not important think about it. Now there are some denominations that do vary on essential things, allowing abortion, gay marriage,saying its OK premarital sex, you can get drunk, smoke, get tattoos, you can have bad-mouth, etc.
Here we have some common areas of belief - that it is morally wrong - a sin - to: encourage abortions, gay ‘marriage’ premarital sex and getting drunk. I’m not to clear on the smoking and tattoos and needing dental care is not a sin… (just kidding
PRmerger as always, you don’t address all my post.
Actually, I thought he did address your post… but, that is between you two…
I am sure I have the faith handed through the apostles.
Now, I am a bit unclear on that … and, not finding what I was looking for on the AoG site, I went to Wiki and here is there explanatory paragraph.
The Assemblies of God has its roots in the Pentecostal revival of the early 20th century. This revival is generally traced to a prayer meeting held under the leadership of Charles Parham, at Bethel Bible College in Topeka, Kansas, on January 1, 1901…
Then I went to Pentecostal to see when that group developed. The earliest documented group I could find was in 1901. And, as you can see from this Wike article, there are some ‘essential’ differences even within this group (Trinitarian vs Nontrinitarian). And while Dr. Ward may want to take this group’s origins back to the early church… there is no documentation to support this idea.
Pentecostalism is an umbrella term that includes a wide range of different theologies and cultures. For example, many Pentecostals are Trinitarian and others are Nontrinitarian.[4]
The Apostles celebrated all of the Jewish (Given by God) Feast do you? The Apostles kept Sabbath holy , do you? Do you have the same exact set of beliefs like them? Oh no? Then you don’t have the same faith as gave to the Apostles
Yahweh bless you. I guess I’ve made my point.
Actually, if you look at Acts 20:7 and 1Cor 16:1-2 you will see the transition from the Sabbath (last day of the week) to Sunday - to add special focus to the Resurrection. Now, we are to observe Sunday as the Lord’s Day, we worship on Sunday and refraim from manual labor on that day out of respect for God’s command to rest. But, this is not the Sabbath as the Jews observe.
Those that practice Judiasm (to the best of my knowledge) are awaiting the Messiah; they do not believe Christ, the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, is God’s Anointed Messiah.
While Christ was a Jew, and His Apostles were all Jews - Christ gave us the New Covenant and fulfilled the Old Covenant. The Law of Moses no longer applies to us. What was handed down by the Apostles was not a belief in Judiasm, but rather a belief in Christ - and specifically, that Christ founded His Church on Peter (Matt 16). There really are some major differences here…and, I hope this has been helpful.
God bless
G
gurneyhalleck1
Guest
Let’s try to end this thread by settling on a figure. Some say 40,000, a few say 25,000, some 33,000. let’s take an average and call it a day!
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Nine_Two
Guest
I’m not giving up until people accept one of the numbers I’ve stated in this thread.Let’s try to end this thread by settling on a figure. Some say 40,000, a few say 25,000, some 33,000. let’s take an average and call it a day!
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gurneyhalleck1
Guest
Fine, fine, fine. let’s put it to a vote then already!
I’m not giving up until people accept one of the numbers I’ve stated in this thread.
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Adam_Warlock
Guest
The number is 40,001. I witnessed the birth of a “denomination” a few hours ago. Much like the birth of a star - breathtaking.
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roveau
Guest
I don’t think we made much headway in determining the actual number of Protestant denominations, even using what has been published or what can be found on the Internet. Numbers have been inflated by listing denominations which include geographical locations in their names (countries, states, provinces, towns). The Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, Anglicans etc., are all known to have many geographical distinctions but are essentially the same churches.
Whatever the case, I’ll just be relieved when people refrain from trying to build up an important religious argument by then using a grossly inflated figure, a figure with no documented foundation, in order to win the point.
Whatever the case, I’ll just be relieved when people refrain from trying to build up an important religious argument by then using a grossly inflated figure, a figure with no documented foundation, in order to win the point.
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Nine_Two
Guest
That argument makes sense, and therefore shouldn’t exist on the internet.
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Byzantine_Wolf
Guest
Oh yeah I heard about that. Fundamentalist Grapevine Baptist Church split and now there’s Fundamentalist Grapevine Baptist Church of the NazareneThe number is 40,001. I witnessed the birth of a “denomination” a few hours ago. Much like the birth of a star - breathtaking.
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jmcrae
Guest
Nor do all Protestants say that it is. Methodists, for example, believe in Scripture, Tradition, Reason, and Experience.
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