MERGED: Where are these 40,000 plus Protestant denominations

[Ginger2]

It amazes me how often the exact same topic is started as something new, but even more amazing is that the same old arguments are brought up even when they were long ago dispelled as myths.

Here is a tidbit from long ago:

Non-White Indigenous, accounts for over one third, 10,956 denominations; obviously these are not protestants. They did not break off from the RC

interesting… but wait til you see this next one!!!

Roman Catholicism accounts for 223 denominations;

If you KNOW there is only one Catholic Church, and your source for 20,000…er…30,000… I mean 40,000 protestant denominations say there are OVER 200 Roman Catholic denominations,

WHY WOULD YOU BE SO EAGER TO ASSUME THAT CLAOIM IS CORRECT AND ACCURATE???

I could go on and on bringing up points as to how thousands and thousand of these “protestant denominations” are not protestant at all, (many exited it the first few centuries after Christ and during the lifetimes of the Apostles) but just the fact that your source claims 223 Roman Catholic denominations, should be enough to put an end to this nonesense!

 

[jmcrae]

It amazes me how often the exact same topic is started as something new, but even more amazing is that the same old arguments are brought up even when they were long ago dispelled as myths.

Here is a tidbit from long ago:

Non-White Indigenous, accounts for over one third, 10,956 denominations; obviously these are not protestants. They did not break off from the RC

interesting… but wait til you see this next one!!!

Roman Catholicism accounts for 223 denominations;

If you KNOW there is only one Catholic Church, and your source for 20,000…er…30,000… I mean 40,000 protestant denominations say there are OVER 200 Roman Catholic denominations,

WHY WOULD YOU BE SO EAGER TO ASSUME THAT CLAOIM IS CORRECT AND ACCURATE???

It just makes the person making the claim look uninformed and/or pointlessly confrontational.

I could go on and on bringing up points as to how thousands and thousand of these “protestant denominations” are not protestant at all, (many exited it the first few centuries after Christ and during the lifetimes of the Apostles)

I assume you’re referring to the Nestorians, Arians, and other early heresies? I don’t think those guys ever actually established separate churches - certainly, if they did, they don’t continue to exist today, so wouldn’t be counted in the Almanac, in any case.

but just the fact that your source claims 223 Roman Catholic denominations, should be enough to put an end to this nonsense!

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Publisher,

I guess I am not familiar with those ‘histories’. What I am talking about are strictly secular histories with real names, dates and outcomes listed. The same folks who gave us the Battle of Hastings took place in 1066 and resulted in the defeat of Harold of Saxony and placed William as the ruler over that part of England,… also gave us…

Martin Luther: 10 November 1483 – 18 February 1546) was a German priest and professor of theology who initiated the Protestant Reformation.[1] Strongly disputing the claim that freedom from God’s punishment of sin could be purchased with money, he confronted indulgence salesman Johann Tetzel with his Ninety-Five Theses in 1517. His refusal to retract all of his writings at the demand of Pope Leo X in 1520 and the Holy Roman Emperor Charles V at the Diet of Worms in 1521 resulted in his excommunication by the pope and condemnation as an outlaw by the emperor.

Here is the link:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther

So, we see that Luther is a Catholic priest who begins the Protestant Reformation in about 1517.

Is there another story to tell that significantly differs from this brief presentation? If so, I would be interested in hearing about it.

God bless

Only if I work “my way back” using Catholic histories…non-Catholic…and some still Catholic…whom many call “reconstructionists”…“liberal”…“heretics”…tell a completely different story than Catholics tell.

 

[Roy5]

It isn’t necessary for a Protestant denomination to break with Catholicism, as Ginger2 seems to suggest. Most of them actually have broken away from other Protestant denominations. They all are Protestant - well, a few exceptons, maybe, as among, say, some African cults which maintain certain pagan characteristics along with Christian ones.

Using the Methodists as an illustration, John Wesley was sort of ‘read out’ of the Church of England (it refused to ordain the circuit riders etc), so Methodism sprung up. There are many branches of Methodism including the AME, AME Zion and CME churches, all African-American denominations going back many, many years. They are as authentically Methodist as the much larger United Methodist Church. These are decidedly Protestant denominations.

Actually, an argument could be made that Luther was sort of 'read out' of the Catholic Church, too. A different attitude and more patience on both sides may have prevented the split. It's always interested me that the building of St. Peter's was a major cause of the Reformation. That priest in Germany soliciting funds for building St. Peter's (Tetzel) promised a quicker trip to heaven (and faster exit from purgatory) for those or their relatives who contributed generously to the construction. Such indulgences in exchange for money caused Luther, an Augusrfinian monk, to post his 95 theses.

Among the larger groups that are not Protestant and do not claim to be are Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Geinger2,

How nice of you to post here… Ah, your sense of amazement is touching - but, rest easy, most of us have been having a really enjoyable conversation. Let me see if I can help you with your questions…and seeing that you just joined, let me bring you up to speed…

It amazes me how often the exact same topic is started as something new, but even more amazing is that the same old arguments are brought up even when they were long ago dispelled as myths.

You will be pleased to learn that there are a lot of new folks on this thread - and what may be ‘old hat’ for some, such as yourself. is really new for many. You will also be pleased to know that many have questioned the validity of the actual numbrers presented. The issue of just how many does not seem to be THAT important, contrasted with the fact that there is this multiplicity of Protestant denominations with conflicting doctrines.

Here is a tidbit from long ago:

Non-White Indigenous, accounts for over one third, 10,956 denominations; obviously these are not protestants. They did not break off from the RC

interesting… but wait til you see this next one!!!

Roman Catholicism accounts for 223 denominations;

If you KNOW there is only one Catholic Church, and your source for 20,000…er…30,000… I mean 40,000 protestant denominations say there are OVER 200 Roman Catholic denominations,

WHY WOULD YOU BE SO EAGER TO ASSUME THAT CLAOIM IS CORRECT AND ACCURATE???

With regards to the Catholic ‘count’, it would appear that they counted rites and not denominations here. Actually, it is only Protestants that can be denominated because they really all sprang from the Catholic Church.

I am not sure there was a lot of eagerness to claim the numbers presented were correct and accurate - it is just that there certainly are a lot of them.

I could go on and on bringing up points as to how thousands and thousand of these “protestant denominations” are not protestant at all, (many exited it the first few centuries after Christ and during the lifetimes of the Apostles) but just the fact that your source claims 223 Roman Catholic denominations, should be enough to put an end to this nonesense!

Actually, Ginger2, you need to make a distinction between the 1st - 5th Century heretics from the 16th Century variety who ultimately gave us the Protestant denominations we see before us today. I do not believe you can accurately use the term “Protestant” before the 16th Century.

I really would not be too quick to call it nonsense. Actually, it really does give folks a chance to simply look around - even to look in their Yellow Pages - just to get an idea on the tremendous amount of fragmentation that has happened over the years.

God bless

 

[jmcrae]

With regards to the Catholic ‘count’, it would appear that they counted rites and not denominations here. Actually, it is only Protestants that can be denominated because they really all sprang from the Catholic Church.

No, they are counting Bishops’ conferences; not Rites. There are only 23 Rites in Catholicism.

But if they are counting every Bishops’ conference of Lutherans, Anglicans, and Methodists as separate denominations, too, then the numbers for those will be equally over-inflated, which makes the whole study unreliable.

 

[sparkletina]

Church spits happen with some frequency, often over minor doctrinal differences. The feuding sections of the congregation split into what could be considered two denominations, though each would think itself as the true adherent to the faith. Neither will change its stated denominational loyalty.

This has not been my experience. As a Protestant of several decades, I belonged to many different churches, but a couple churches (each a different denomination, although one was just a loosely-affiliated one) had serious problems, causing a church split. When that happened, the people who left (50% in one & 1/3 in the other) did not keep the denominational affiliation–they became non-denominational. I also know of a mega-Baptist church in the area where over half the people left & started a non-denom church–that is more the norm here: start your own church from scratch and you can believe whatever it is you want. They were going to do it right! According to them, that is. So that is why whenever you hear something “off” in a sermon or Sunday school at your church, you simply walk down the street and go to another one! Very simple. Especially in a large metro area–you can take your pick. And you will very likely meet many people who play the revolving church game, some from your former church(es)!! I mean, people don’t switch just once–it’s over and over and over–from denominations to non-denom, to another denomination, etc. I did it myself! I thank God he brought me to my senses after years of this and made me realize the Catholic Church is the One True Church founded by Christ!

 

[Riccardo]

Hi, first post to you all.
Boy am i confused by all of this.
The Lord told us not to get into arguments as such.

I started my church life out in an Anglain Methodist church, from there i went a CoE, from there to a Church of Christ, each time knowing that the Lord was leading me and teaching me. Today i’m in a Free Methodist church, but still unsure.

Looking at my life i’m ashamed to say all this, because i’ve always wanted to worship the Lord in truth and belong to the one true church. Trouble is, everyone claims this. So where does it leave one? Trusting in the Lord, and praying to him.

The CC seems to me the one church that has stuck to the truth ( Not perfect) but one area i struggle with the CC is on baptism of infants. Dedicating i can see, confirmation i cant see.

So i thank you for all your posts, which i’ve been reading these past hours. But confused, i am!
Ric

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Riccardo,

Welcome to CAF! I think you will find this list to be a real blessing and inspiration in your search for the Truth.

Let me make one comment…

Hi, first post to you all.
Boy am i confused by all of this.
The Lord told us not to get into arguments as such.

I started my church life out in an Anglain Methodist church, from there i went a CoE, from there to a Church of Christ, each time knowing that the Lord was leading me and teaching me. Today i’m in a Free Methodist church, but still unsure.

Looking at my life i’m ashamed to say all this, because i’ve always wanted to worship the Lord in truth and belong to the one true church. Trouble is, everyone claims this. So where does it leave one? Trusting in the Lord, and praying to him.

The CC seems to me the one church that has stuck to the truth ( Not perfect) but one area i struggle with the CC is on baptism of infants. Dedicating i can see, confirmation i cant see.

So i thank you for all your posts, which i’ve been reading these past hours. But confused, i am!
Ric

If your intial concern is the “…baptism of infants…” maybe this will help. Just imagine that you and your wife (assuming you’re married… ) were lost in a jungle. You come upon an abandoned infant whose parents had just been killed and immediately work to rescue it. During the process you both bond with the infant and want to adopt it. Well… as it turns out you are very wealthy … and you realized that this infant would inherit all of your wealth becuase you want this child to be your child. Since you and wife are childless this works out well. But, you never got around to formalizing your desire for adoption - and shortly after you three are rescued … you and wife are killed (sorry about that…) As it turns out, without the initiation into your family - this infant who you rescued and loved and nurtured … is not your child and will NOT inherit your earthly possessions. (Since you didn’t have a will either - it will wind up going to the State!)

Baptism makes us a Child of God - and an heir to the Kingdom of Heaven. And, this is so great! We are not orphans - we are God’s Children and entitled to all of the bounty of Heaven.

Now, for a much better explanation, here is an excellent link: catholic.com/library/Infant_Baptism.asp

God bless

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Jmcrae,

Thanks!

God bless

No, they are counting Bishops’ conferences; not Rites. There are only 23 Rites in Catholicism.

But if they are counting every Bishops’ conference of Lutherans, Anglicans, and Methodists as separate denominations, too, then the numbers for those will be equally over-inflated, which makes the whole study unreliable.

 

[Ginger2]

Actually, Ginger2, you need to make a distinction between the 1st - 5th Century heretics from the 16th Century variety who ultimately gave us the Protestant denominations we see before us today. I do not believe you can accurately use the term “Protestant” before the 16th Century.

My point exactly! You ignore all the splits in the Catholic Church before Luther and attribute all non-catholics as splits originating from Luther. Those non- reformation splits are not from protestant denoinations as you just defined above.
You ignore the aborigine in different countries and count them under the heading of protestant splits, etc.
The Catholic Church is still experiencing splits to this day, albeit, much smaller than the reformation, with minimal reporting.
*Polish National Catholic Church (a church in the US) could be listed as Protestant, but it did not break with any Protestant church. It split from the Latin Rite because it does of recognize the recent dogmas of an immaculate conception and bodily assumption of the Mother of God. But it celebrates the entry of the Mother of God into eternal life and solemnly observes the festival of her dormition.

Not all the so-called denominations are actually separate religions. Many were discovered to be several churches all belonging to the one and same denomination.

I really would not be too quick to call it nonsense. Actually, it really does give folks a chance to simply look around - even to look in their Yellow Pages - just to get an idea on the tremendous amount of fragmentation that has happened over the years.

 

[jmcrae]

In order to reach the 30,000 protestant denominations number, all the splits coming from splitting with the RC are counted as Protestant splits. - even those before Luther and including those who still consider themselves Catholic.

How convenient…

There were no “splits” before Luther that still exist today, other than the Orthodox, so they wouldn’t have been counted in the Almanac. The Almanac is only counting religions that exist right now.

But the data is still badly flawed because they are obviously counting at least some of them more than once, and more than several hundred times, in some cases.

 

[Ginger2]

…

But the data is still badly flawed because they are obviously counting at least some of them more than once, and more than several hundred times, in some cases.

Thank you jmcrae!

 

[PJM]

=tqualey;7092042]Hi, Mikeoffaith,

Most of the angels I know are getting old … and will probably just sit that dance out!

Seriously, I am sort of caught on this number issue. Any effort to use anything (number, fact, name, etc.) for either an unreliable source or a source that has been questioned is simply wrong - unless, of course, you preface this with some type of disclaimer that not everyone is in agreement with the number. Averaging threee (or more) invalid numbrers will not produce a valid answer… Now, that was the easy part…

The issue as I see it (living in the Houston area) is that there are over 200 independent churches in the phone book (of course Texas loves its ‘independence’… we even have Independent School Districts!). So, those who would say, as I think was posted - that there are only a “…couple of hundred…” have missed what I think is the essence of the argument - because of their withdrawal from the Catholic Church and necessary embrace of SS - they will simply continue to splinter as long as there are just two Protestants on earth!

The ideas of there being millions of denominations (those who disagree with the teaching of the church they are in or with the preacher) has some philosophical appeal because I think that is what really happens. But, there really is no way to reduce this to a valid number… so… … I just don’t know on the best approach to developing a resolution here.

Of course, we don’t really kinow how many grains of sand there are on a particular beach (then we would get into a discussion if the count was done at high or low tide and just how are we defining beach, and is there so out there who would ‘inflate’ the number of grains?

God bless

I have expressed this MANY TIMES relating to this issue.

We ought NOT get hung up on the "exact number! What is of FAR GREATER revelence is what causes the number to be more than the one church of:

**Eph. 4: 4-6 **“There is one body [One Church] and one Spirit, [One set of beliefs] just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, one Lord, [One God] **one faith, **[One set of doctrine and dogma] one baptism, By water in the Trinity] one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all."

Historical FACT: There was in existence ONLY ONE Church [today’s CC] when this was written and the bibles Canon was set.

**2nd. Peter Chapter One verse 20 **“First of all you must understand this, **that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, **because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God. “

Psalm 30 6 “Do not add to his words, lest he rebuke you, and you be found a liar.”

2 Peter 3: 14 –17 “Therefore, beloved, since you wait for these, be zealous to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace. And count the forbearance of our Lord as salvation. So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, beware lest you be carried away with the error of lawless men and lose your own stability. But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.”

**1Tim.3: 15 **“if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, [SINGULAR] which is the church [SINGULAR] of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.” [SINGULAR]

2nd. Tim. 3:16 “All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work”

If none-Catholic Christians do not listen even to God, why will they listen to us?

THE NUMER IS RELEVENT ONLY IN THAT IT IS HIGHER THAN THE “ONE” FOUNDED AND DESIRED BY JESUS HIMSELF. The fact that it is MANY, simply shows that it is God Himself BLOCKING there understanding.

May God grant us mercy, understanding and unity!

Pat

 

[elvisman]

My point exactly! You ignore all the splits in the Catholic Church before Luther and attribute all non-catholics as splits originating from Luther. Those non- reformation splits are not from protestant denoinations as you just defined above.
You ignore the aborigine in different countries and count them under the heading of protestant splits, etc.
The Catholic Church is still experiencing splits to this day, albeit, much smaller than the reformation, with minimal reporting.
*Polish National Catholic Church (a church in the US) could be listed as Protestant, but it did not break with any Protestant church. It split from the Latin Rite because it does of recognize the recent dogmas of an immaculate conception and bodily assumption of the Mother of God. But it celebrates the entry of the Mother of God into eternal life and solemnly observes the festival of her dormition.

Not all the so-called denominations are actually separate religions. Many were discovered to be several churches all belonging to the one and same denomination.

Here are a few categories of the Catholic church denominations as listed within Barrett’s Encyclopedia of 22,000 denominations. (30,000 according to the Catholics who arbitrarily upped the number)

Roman Catholics (242 denominations)
Armenian (Eastern-rite Catholic)
Bulgarian (Byzantine rite)
Chaldean (Eastern Syrian rite)
Coptic (Alexandrian rite)
Ethiopic (Alexandrian rite)
etc. (edited for length)

Orthodox (781 denominations) :
Albanian/Greek-speaking Orthodox
Arabic or Arabic/Greek-speaking Orthodox
Armenian Orthodox (Gregorian)
Bulgarian Orthodox
Coptic Orthodox
etc. (edited for length)

Anglicans (168 denominations):
Anglo-Catholic
Central or Broad Church Anglican
Ecumenical (Anglican/Protestant/Orthodox joint parishes)
Anglican Evangelical, Evangelical Anglican
High Church Anglican (Prayer Book Catholic)
etc. (edited for length)

The list goes on and on. As I read, I noticed a very large percentage of denominations had first split from the Catholic church.

In order to reach the 30,000 protestant denominations number, all the splits coming from splitting with the RC are counted as Protestant splits. - even those before Luther and including those who still consider themselves Catholic.

How convenient…

Anybody "claiming’ to be Catholic who rejects Catholic Doctrines is simply a Protestant.

There ARE no “denominations” of Catholicism. Those churches that would include the Old Catholic Church and the Polish Catholic church are Protestant churches that CLAIM to be Catholic.

Do some homework before making such claims.

Now - lets discuss some of those churches that you claim broke off before the Protestant Revolt - other than the Orthodox Great Schism of the 11th century.
Can you list them for me?

 

[Nicea325]

My point exactly! You ignore all the splits in the Catholic Church before Luther and attribute all non-catholics as splits originating from Luther. Those non- reformation splits are not from protestant denoinations as you just defined above.
You ignore the aborigine in different countries and count them under the heading of protestant splits, etc.
The Catholic Church is still experiencing splits to this day, albeit, much smaller than the reformation, with minimal reporting.
*Polish National Catholic Church (a church in the US) could be listed as Protestant, but it did not break with any Protestant church. It split from the Latin Rite because it does of recognize the recent dogmas of an immaculate conception and bodily assumption of the Mother of God. But it celebrates the entry of the Mother of God into eternal life and solemnly observes the festival of her dormition.

Not all the so-called denominations are actually separate religions. Many were discovered to be several churches all belonging to the one and same denomination.

Here are a few categories of the Catholic church denominations as listed within Barrett’s Encyclopedia of 22,000 denominations. (30,000 according to the Catholics who arbitrarily upped the number)

Roman Catholics (242 denominations)
Armenian (Eastern-rite Catholic)
Bulgarian (Byzantine rite)
Chaldean (Eastern Syrian rite)
Coptic (Alexandrian rite)
Ethiopic (Alexandrian rite)
etc. (edited for length)

Orthodox (781 denominations) :
Albanian/Greek-speaking Orthodox
Arabic or Arabic/Greek-speaking Orthodox
Armenian Orthodox (Gregorian)
Bulgarian Orthodox
Coptic Orthodox
etc. (edited for length)

Anglicans (168 denominations):
Anglo-Catholic
Central or Broad Church Anglican
Ecumenical (Anglican/Protestant/Orthodox joint parishes)
Anglican Evangelical, Evangelical Anglican
High Church Anglican (Prayer Book Catholic)
etc. (edited for length)

The list goes on and on. As I read, I noticed a very large percentage of denominations had first split from the Catholic church.

In order to reach the 30,000 protestant denominations number, all the splits coming from splitting with the RC are counted as Protestant splits. - even those before Luther and including those who still consider themselves Catholic.

How convenient…

Exactly! How convenient. Now may you please provide the churches in existence today,which spilt from the Catholic Church (except the Orthodox Church) PRIOR to the Reformation?

 

[Ginger2]

Anybody "claiming’ Those churches that would include the Old Catholic Church and the Polish Catholic church are Protestant churches that CLAIM to be Catholic.

Do some homework before making such claims.

LOL I am not claiming numerous catholic denominations! Your source for the 40,000 Protestant denomination is what says there are hundreds and hundreds of catholic denominations!

That’s what I find so amusing about this whole thing. Catholics point to Barrett’s study (Ithink that was his name) as proof positive to this claim of 40,000 (when in fact it was really something like half that number) Protestant denominations. But conveniently ignore his claim of about Catholics having multiple denominations.

Instead of acknowledging he is not a reliable source (even by catholic standards) you use him to promote a myth, but only the parts that suit you and ignore the parts that don’t.

And now you acuse me of making claims I did not make in a vain attempt to skirt the reality.

Barrett is absolutely reliable when he says what you want to hear. But the parts you don’t like, you pretend he never said and instead falsely accuse someone else!!!

I just can’t help but find it amusing…

 

[Ginger2]

…Now may you please provide the churches in existence today,which spilt from the Catholic Church (except the Orthodox Church) PRIOR to the Reformation?

Oriental Orthodox and Assyrian to name two.

In 451, at the Church Council in the city of Chalcedon the Catholic Church split. The Churches in Egypt, Syria, and Armenian broke off and today exist as the Oriental Orthodox Churches. They were part of the Catholic church.

And so it has been right thru the reformation. Luther was a Catholic.

…in fact…all heresy first sprang from the Catholic Church. Has the RC ever held a council to define a doctrine from a pagan society?

 

[RonTheNewJew]

The Eastern Christian Church does have major differences with the one led by the Bishop of Rome. The papacy likes to try to say that there is unity. But history shows many differences. First, it is a real stretch to say that, in spite of the two sets of authorityp; the one claiming the Scriptures as it’s basis of authority, the other Scripture and Church tradition (legilslation by the lead clergy of the Roman patriarchate.)

To be sure, the Eastern Christian Church and most other denominations of what should be (though in it’s current doctrinal matrix of beliefs, it really isn’t) Judeo-Christianity, all have their individual religious doctrinal beliefs and thought patterns. As time passes, the cultural/behahavioral spinoffs from doctrine, eventually become part of a statement of “pure” doctrinal beliefs.As this process of doctrinal change continues through the influence of local cultural norms, others will come along who have desire to look at the current status of the code of beliefs, and compare it with the original set of doctrines.

Then, sometimes in order to buttress current interpretations of sets of doctrine, words within texts are edited to fit current understandings of their meanings. Consequently, beliefs change over time. This is the human side of doctrinal belief change. Thus, break off groups, with reformed light back to earlier doctrinal understandings, constantly arise, both outside “established” institutional organizations around central beliefs.

People have to make their own decisions about such things. Trusting completely to any set of institutionally sanctioned beliefs without independent investigation of ancient original, unedited texts if “purity” is the objective, then “purity of doctrine” is likely impossible.

 

[elvisman]

LOL I am not claiming numerous catholic denominations! Your source for the 40,000 Protestant denomination is what says there are hundreds and hundreds of catholic denominations!

That’s what I find so amusing about this whole thing. Catholics point to Barrett’s study (Ithink that was his name) as proof positive to this claim of 40,000 (when in fact it was really something like half that number) Protestant denominations. But conveniently ignore his claim of about Catholics having multiple denominations.

Instead of acknowledging he is not a reliable source (even by catholic standards) you use him to promote a myth, but only the parts that suit you and ignore the parts that don’t.

And now you acuse me of making claims I did not make in a vain attempt to skirt the reality.

Barrett is absolutely reliable when he says what you want to hear. But the parts you don’t like, you pretend he never said and instead falsely accuse someone else!!!

I just can’t help but find it amusing…

I never claimed that this was “absolutely reliable”. I never even claimed that** **the lower number of 33,000 denominations was “absolutely reliable”. I’ve always been of the ilk that if there are 5 - that is too many. If there is even ONE - that is too many.

You must remember one thing, Ginger - these statistics did NOT come from a Catholic source. Barrett is a professor at Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary - a Protestant establishment.