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estesbob
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I too was saved from Alchoholism 25 years ago by Christ-working through the Catholic church. And I an eternally greatful for that.
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Rightlydivide
Guest
Lots of churches have apostolic succession. Or claim to, the specifics are open to intepretation I understand.
The Truth must correspond with what we know is Truth. His scriptures. I know enough history to know that relying on history and tradition can cause people to believe things that are not true.
But you knew I thought that or I would be Catholic.
I have no interest in joining your churchnor leaving what God did for me.
The second attempt to convert. Something that is not allowed
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catholicpublish
Guest
If your Church uses the bible, your most basic beliefs are rooted in the Catholic church - no legitimate argument can possibly counteract this statement despite any spin that may be put on it. This very nature makes one thing remarkably clear: Catholics can not be defined by other Christian denominations, but other denominations can be partially defined by Catholicism.
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Rightlydivide
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Glory to God!!
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beafedor
Guest
Quote: How Old Is Your Church?
If you are a Lutheran, your religion was founded by Martin Luther, an ex- monk of the Catholic Church, in the year 1517. If you belong to the Church of England, your religion was founded by King Henry VIII in the year 1534 because the Pope would not grant him a divorce with the right to remarry. If you are a Presbyterian, your religion was founded by John Knox in Scotland in the year 1560. If you are a Protestant Episcopalian, your religion was an offshoot of the Church of England founded by Samuel Seabury in the American colonies in the 17th century. If you are a Congregationalist, your religion was originated by Robert Brown in Holland in 1582. If you are a Methodist, your religion was launched by John and Charles Wesley in England in 1744. If you are a Unitarian, Theophilus Lindley founded your church in London in 1774. If you are a Mormon (Latter Day Saints), Joseph Smith started your religion in Palmyra, N.Y., in 1829. If you are a Baptist, you owe the tenets of your religion to John Smyth, who launched it in Amsterdam in 1605. If you are of the Dutch Reformed church, you recognize Michaelis Jones as founder, because he originated your religion in New York in 1628. If you worship with the Salvation Army, your sect began with William Booth in London in 1865. If you are a Christian Scientist, you look to 1879 as the year in which your religion was born and to Mrs. Mary Baker Eddy as its founder. If you belong to one of the religious organizations known as 'Church of the Nazarene," “Pentecostal Gospel.” “Holiness Church,” “Pilgrim Holiness Church,” “Jehovah’s Witnesses,” your religion is one of the hundreds of new sects founded by men within the past century. If you are Catholic, you know that your religion was founded in the year 33 by Jesus Christ the Son of God, and it is still the same Church.
ewtn.com/faith/teachings/churb4.htm
If you are a Lutheran, your religion was founded by Martin Luther, an ex- monk of the Catholic Church, in the year 1517. If you belong to the Church of England, your religion was founded by King Henry VIII in the year 1534 because the Pope would not grant him a divorce with the right to remarry. If you are a Presbyterian, your religion was founded by John Knox in Scotland in the year 1560. If you are a Protestant Episcopalian, your religion was an offshoot of the Church of England founded by Samuel Seabury in the American colonies in the 17th century. If you are a Congregationalist, your religion was originated by Robert Brown in Holland in 1582. If you are a Methodist, your religion was launched by John and Charles Wesley in England in 1744. If you are a Unitarian, Theophilus Lindley founded your church in London in 1774. If you are a Mormon (Latter Day Saints), Joseph Smith started your religion in Palmyra, N.Y., in 1829. If you are a Baptist, you owe the tenets of your religion to John Smyth, who launched it in Amsterdam in 1605. If you are of the Dutch Reformed church, you recognize Michaelis Jones as founder, because he originated your religion in New York in 1628. If you worship with the Salvation Army, your sect began with William Booth in London in 1865. If you are a Christian Scientist, you look to 1879 as the year in which your religion was born and to Mrs. Mary Baker Eddy as its founder. If you belong to one of the religious organizations known as 'Church of the Nazarene," “Pentecostal Gospel.” “Holiness Church,” “Pilgrim Holiness Church,” “Jehovah’s Witnesses,” your religion is one of the hundreds of new sects founded by men within the past century. If you are Catholic, you know that your religion was founded in the year 33 by Jesus Christ the Son of God, and it is still the same Church.
ewtn.com/faith/teachings/churb4.htm
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jlhargus
Guest
JL: Does you church teach God is a Trinity?
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Barbkw
Guest
Congratulations on accepting the work of the Holy Spirit in your life. I’m very happy for you.
Please pray for us, that we all accept the need for continual conversion - and a life in Christ.
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gcnuss
Guest
At the risk of entering into a “no-win” argument, Lutherans did not just pop out of the woodwork in 1517 ex nihilo. There would be no Lutherans if the Catholic Church had not existed. We owe our understanding of God – Father, Son, and Holy Spirit – to those who carried the faith; we owe the creeds we confess (Apostles’, Nicene, and Athanasian) to those who carried the faith; we owe the canon of Holy Scripture to those who carried the faith; we owe our knowledge of the early church fathers to those who preserved their teachings over all those centuries. Had we Lutherans sprung out of nothing we would have none of those things.
To be sure, the sharing of those fifteen centuries is imperfect but there is sharing. And for that I thank God.
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mdrummer5
Guest
Three things…
- thanks for this info
- can you (or anyone) recommend a book on this info that might provide more detail?
- I couldn’t help but think “man this is just like when a group of people decides to play six degrees of Kevin Bacon!”
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fons_vitae
Guest
The Bible was compiled for you by the Catholic Council of Carthage. /thread
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PeaceSerenity
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Stole the words right out of my mouth.The Bible was compiled for you by the Catholic Council of Carthage. /thread
The Orthodox/Catholic Church compiled and canonized the Bible. Any Biblical faith is dependent on the decisions of the Church at that time because th Bible cannot be separated from The Church. Conclusion: all Christian denominations find their origins in the Catholic/Orthodox Church.
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JeanMichel
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Churches create definitions to fit their needs. The term “Christianity” has become a very pliable term and has been given a whole range of definitions. At the very first days after the resurrection a Christian was simply one who followed Christ; believed that he was the Messiah and would be returning. Nothing more and nothing less.
Today Evangelicals have created a term that allows them to call the Catholic Church a cult, which to me is hilariously ignorant of history. Of course, Evangelicals also think Mormons are a cult. Speaking of funny, the old saying of the enemy of my enemy is my friend does not really apply here does it?
To be very frank, Catholics use a different definition; to be Christan means that one must not only be a follower of Jesus, but also believe in the doctrine of the Trinity.
Personally, I reject most definitions except the first one used at the time of the first apostles. Everything else seems to have been developed only to segregate the Body of Christ; I think God is the better judge of that than men.
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Saul_DelTarso
Guest
The latest I’ve heard is that we are not Christians, but Cathlo-Islamist, which if you can get the implications without my spelling it out, seems to be a pretty loud message right now. That, and a very vocal sabbatarian/Messianic movement that blames the RCC for every evil and error they perceive in the Christian faith, whether Catholic or Protestant.
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ConstantineTG
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Its their claim to legitimacy, that the Church is not Christian therefore not the true Church of Christ. Therefore one should join them instead. Its nothing more than proselytizing.
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Brannock
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I think it was Scott Hahn who in Rome Sweet Home said something along the lines of…‘If the Catholic were not true then it would be diabolical’ (I am paraphrashing, and NOT quoting directly AT ALL). The Church makes claims like no other christian church. It would either have to be true or severely wrong, unlike many more generalized teachings.
I almost find it easier to have a debate with someone that holds this position because at least they are trying to put things in terms of black and white, someone being right or wrong, instead of “it doesn’t really matter as long as you believe in Jesus”.
I almost find it easier to have a debate with someone that holds this position because at least they are trying to put things in terms of black and white, someone being right or wrong, instead of “it doesn’t really matter as long as you believe in Jesus”.
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mdrummer5
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Pictures can speak 1000 words but this one only speaks 5… and they’re awesome!
As far as this… I’m eager to read the responses as well but my knee jerk reaction is that aside from whatever responses you may have. First ask them why they feel that way… don’t be surprised if you get answers that are completely devoid of any logical reasoning. Regardless of their answer I’d ask where in the Bible it indicates that any part of Catholicism is wrong… then wait for a look of stupor.
Also, it’s that thought process that’s wrong with Christianity not the Catholic Church. People that walk around claiming to be “good Christians” while judging other people and their beliefs with no real “ammo” other than the fact that it’s different from what they believe. Yes the Catholic Church has done things that are questionable… but that doesn’t make it’s teachings wrong.
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kaid100
Guest
I think it’s the age, rather than the gender, that people are more bothered with. In any case, it’s always wrong to stereotype anyone on the basis of a few bad eggs.sad, but true…
…I never actually thought about it like that.
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Rightlydivide
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No. That meeting added to the Old Testament and we do not use the later developing canon that you use. I had a thread on that earlier…I suppose you could look at it if bored enoughThe Bible was compiled for you by the Catholic Council of Carthage. /thread
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StTommyMore
Guest
It also established the New Testament Canon
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Rightlydivide
Guest
Local synods cannot “establish” a canon. And in fact, it didn’t. Segments of Christianity, as I am sure you are aware, recognized different books for years after that. Revelation being a good example.
The correct canon is recognized. Man cannot establish a canon. In fact, even Vatican One agrees with me. Councils approval was subsequent but scripture is scripture because God is the author.
You also are aware that prior to Carthage and Hippo a 27 book canon was recognized by some Christians.
Now since we both know history, and know that what actual effect any synod had on practical use is conjecture based upon scant existing records, lets move on.
You know that no one wrote in 500 AD that the whole church recognizes the 27 book canon based upon a local regional synod. That does not exist.
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