MERGED Why do some say the Catholic Church is not Christian?

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So how would know if “he” is right? Is it a blind faith experience, or what?
Who said he was right? The Bible is correct. A Bible study group is not led by one certain man.
But no, I had a conversion experience. I was saved. I left atheism, and this is in no certain order, I was healed, stopped drinking and a few other things I care not to mention, and had my life turned around. Not exactly the kind of guy who leaves THAT for something else.
 
Who said he was right? The Bible is correct. A Bible study group is not led by one certain man.
But no, I had a conversion experience. I was saved. I left atheism, and this is in no certain order, I was healed, stopped drinking and a few other things I care not to mention, and had my life turned around. Not exactly the kind of guy who leaves THAT for something else.
Oh, I am misunderstanding. BTW I think its great your on track and feeling better about yourself and direction.👍

I’m sorry, I thought there was a specific teaching you were now following which I wasn’t familiar with.

So where to from this point?
 
originally posted by Rightlydivide
The person who started it did not attend another church. It started as a small Bible study after he was saved by a personal evangelism encounter on a college campus.
So you are saying your church was started recently by a person who was part of a group who did their own interpretation of the Bible and and was “saved” by a feeling.
By what authority, other than his own personal feeling and personal understanding of scripture did this person establish his very own church?
Do you not know that if Jesus The Christ had wanted mankind to be flummoxed to the point of starting up thousands of different takes on His message, known as churchs or congregations, he would not have left his own seal of approval on the apostles and their actions?
Do you believe that Christ has no problem with men establishing their own mis-interpretation of his words and then argueing themselves into thousands of splinters?
Come home to Rome; the seat of The One True and Holy Catholic Church established on Earth by Christ until He comes again. 🙂
 
I am not a Calvinist. I am a Christian. Our church does not stem from any organization. It is as grass roots as one can get.
I know my history well…but you already know that
You are a Christian, but your theology is reformed. Your theology is that of the Calvinist school. YOu can deny it, but that does not make it less true.
 
But our church is not from the Catholic Church…
You don’t belong to a church. You belong to denomination- one of housands that have sprung up since man decided he knew better than God. There . You can trace your denomination only back to a group of disentful men a little over 500 years ago. They would have you believe that Jesus Christ was so inept that he allowed people to wallow in ignorance for 1500 years before the truth came out. I personally would not want to worship God who was so inept.
 
The Bible has God as its author. Which is of course Catholic doctrine as well
But yes, the majority text has its origins in Anglicanism and prior to that Catholicism/Orthodoxy.
Of course there is thousands of years of history but our church itself does not come from the Catholic Church.
Of course prior Christians existed but any relationship is quite small.
The Bible can only be properly interpreted in the light of the Church. Separating Scripture, Tradition, and Liturgy results in skewed interpretations.
 
So you are saying your church was started recently by a person who was part of a group who did their own interpretation of the Bible and and was “saved” by a feeling.
By what authority, other than his own personal feeling and personal understanding of scripture did this person establish his very own church?
Do you not know that if Jesus The Christ had wanted mankind to be flummoxed to the point of starting up thousands of different takes on His message, known as churchs or congregations, he would not have left his own seal of approval on the apostles and their actions?
Do you believe that Christ has no problem with men establishing their own mis-interpretation of his words and then argueing themselves into thousands of splinters?
Come home to Rome; the seat of The One True and Holy Catholic Church established on Earth by Christ until He comes again. 🙂
The authority comes not from man but from God. That is what Paul teaches. By the way, the last part of your post is a direct attempt to convert me. Which is not allowed. I cant do it and neither can you.
 
You don’t belong to a church. You belong to denomination- one of housands that have sprung up since man decided he knew better than God. There . You can trace your denomination only back to a group of disentful men a little over 500 years ago. They would have you believe that Jesus Christ was so inept that he allowed people to wallow in ignorance for 1500 years before the truth came out. I personally would not want to worship God who was so inept.
But you see, the story of the Bible is always of men who take the teachings of God and do not following them. Then, and only then, does God reveal His truth to a small group or in the case of the OT, prophets.
Who were listened to? No, almost always not. Man always falls in the Bible
God allowed man to fall. That is free will. In His mercy, his church speads and not a case of being inept at all. What would be inept is accepting the Reformation as not inspired by God in my estimation.
Depends on how you look at it.
I am on the narrow path. A small path. I think that is rather how He said it would be…
 
You are a Christian, but your theology is reformed. Your theology is that of the Calvinist school. YOu can deny it, but that does not make it less true.
But to be accurate, that is not true. You could see traces of many theological schools in Fundamentalism. You actually do not know much of my theology CW. I do not think it matters too much. Lets not digress too much.
 
  1. are orthodox christians " christian?"
  2. Mocking the words of Jesus, if you say that the Catholic Church isn’t Christian
    " No bad tree can bear good fruit. " All other churches( excluding orthodox, for this argument) came either out of the catholic church, or out of a noncatholic church, and all due to a human decision against the original group doctrine or dogma. So if those Churches are good, they are the fruit of a good tree- the catholic church. If the catholic church is bad, then so are all the churches from it, and any churches from them, etc… down to the 33,000th denomination ( or whatever it is ) You can’t have it both ways.
A couple of thoughts from this Lutheran:

The Catholic Church is Christian. I am glad to claim Catholics as my brothers and sisters in Christ.

I am equally glad to claim as our shared history the 1500 years before the Reformation. Had the Catholic Church not persevered and kept the faith through those often difficult centuries I probably would not be a Christian now.
 
But you see, the story of the Bible is always of men who take the teachings of God and do not following them. Then, and only then, does God reveal His truth to a small group or in the case of the OT, prophets.
Who were listened to? No, almost always not. Man always falls in the Bible
God allowed man to fall. That is free will. In His mercy, his church speads and not a case of being inept at all. What would be inept is accepting the Reformation as not inspired by God in my estimation.
Depends on how you look at it.
I am on the narrow path. A small path. I think that is rather how He said it would be…
I am curious as to why if everybody can discern the truth from Scripture on their own why there are so many thousands of different versions of the truth? Again it appears to me that you are worshiping a very inept god
 
A couple of thoughts from this Lutheran:

The Catholic Church is Christian. I am glad to claim Catholics as my brothers and sisters in Christ.

I am equally glad to claim as our shared history the 1500 years before the Reformation. Had the Catholic Church not persevered and kept the faith through those often difficult centuries I probably would not be a Christian now.
There is no shared history between the Lutherans and the Catholic Church prior to 1500. The Lutherans rejected the church 500 years ago. Fortunately they have held on to some of the fundamental truths protected by the Church for the first 1500 years after Christ died. It is well that you are Christian-even better if you would come home.
 
The Bible can only be properly interpreted in the light of the Church. Separating Scripture, Tradition, and Liturgy results in skewed interpretations.
Did you know when I looked at tradition, big T, seriously, I found them to be later developing and differing amongst the different strands of churches claiming apostolic succession. Some things are the same to be sure! But enough major things that I certainly see the same problems that are also part of my view of scripture.
The only reason there was not more division earlier on is the lack of information in my estimation. People did not have the resources to investigate things so they stayed with all they knew.
There is a reason why when the Bible became readily available that Protestantism formed. And that we do not see things the way you do.
Outside of traditions, liturgy and so forth, I do not believe your interpretations of scripture are what most people would believe.
And history rather shows that
 
I am curious as to why if everybody can discern the truth from Scripture on their own why there are so many thousands of different versions of the truth? Again it appears to me that you are worshiping a very inept god
But you see that is the same argument I used when I was an atheist. How can all the religions disagreeing allow anyone to discern the truth. It has a flawed presupposition. Truth is not determined by mans inability to discern it. It never has been. God revealed Truth. In Christ and in His holy scriptures and through his church, Truth can be ascertained. However, the inability of some to ascertain that does not negate it.
I do not think He is inept at all. He changed me. I have seen Him change others.
 
The Bible has God as its author. Which is of course Catholic doctrine as well
But yes, the majority text has its origins in Anglicanism and prior to that Catholicism/Orthodoxy.
Of course there is thousands of years of history but our church itself does not come from the Catholic Church.
Of course prior Christians existed but any relationship is quite small.
Godbless… RD…for turning your life around, very admirable of you.

I think the point of the OP was each of the Protestant denoms have their roots somewhere…and that would be the CC…I think history will bear this out.

The core beliefs of Christianity, which your church/denom teach have their roots in the CC, whether you acknowledge it or not, or want to believe it, and these teachings have deviated since the Reformation in the 1500 AD.

Romans 11:16-18

16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, 18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
 
Godbless… RD…for turning your life around, very admirable of you.

I think the point of the OP was each of the Protestant denoms have their roots somewhere…and that would be the CC…I think history will bear this out.

The core beliefs of Christianity, which your church/denom teach have their roots in the CC, whether you acknowledge it or not, or want to believe it, and these teachings have deviated since the Reformation in the 1500 AD.

Romans 11:16-18

16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, 18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
I think this overstates your case. Our beliefs come from scripture. The degree to which the Catholic Church, althought the history of the Majority Text is that of the eastern church, gives us the Bible has been discussed.
On a side note, I did not turn my life around. Just to give credit where credit is due. I never had the desire or reason to.
take care and God bless you as well
 
But you see that is the same argument I used when I was an atheist. How can all the religions disagreeing allow anyone to discern the truth. It has a flawed presupposition. Truth is not determined by mans inability to discern it. It never has been. God revealed Truth. In Christ and in His holy scriptures and through his church, Truth can be ascertained. However, the inability of some to ascertain that does not negate it.
I do not think He is inept at all. He changed me. I have seen Him change others.
Part right, but part wrong. Christ started His ministry and as He taught He also taught Apostles, why? Because He knew that ministry would need to continue on earth. And then Christ handed the Keys to Peter who continued the ministry which quickly became the Catholic Church.

If there were in fact many paths the church woundn’t have been fighting heresy for 2000-years. In fact theres only one mystical body of Jesus Christ. All denominations are cells of the body not connected to the body.

There is only “One Truth”.

BTW while it great you rose above some personal issues, you do realize people do that every day and haven’t found any God. They just decided to face their issues and deal with them productively instead of living in denial and acting of their feelings daily.🤷
 
But you see that is the same argument I used when I was an atheist. How can all the religions disagreeing allow anyone to discern the truth. It has a flawed presupposition. Truth is not determined by mans inability to discern it. It never has been. God revealed Truth. In Christ and in His holy scriptures and through his church, Truth can be ascertained. However, the inability of some to ascertain that does not negate it.
I do not think He is inept at all. He changed me. I have seen Him change others.
It is easy to determine who has the truth. Only one Church can trace its Authority back to jesus and the Apostles. only one Church has held to the same teachings and dooctrines from the Day Jesus rose until today. It is the same Church that gave us the Bible. All other denomoinations sprung from disent born from pride over 1500 years after Jesus rose from the dead

I am glad that you have found a denomination that has helped you and as a chrisitan denomination it has a piece of the truth. Hopefully you will soon be ready to move on and embrace the fullness of truth found only in the Catholic Church. We’ll leave a light on for you.
 
Exactly and while I don’t want to downplay personal issues you have found success in dealing with, you seem to attribute this to someone “other” than yourself, which confirmed your thinking in this idea of Christ. Thats a false assumption. You put the work in. Now put the work in and find true salvation.
 
Part right, but part wrong. Christ started His ministry and as He taught He also taught Apostles, why? Because He knew that ministry would need to continue on earth. And then Christ handed the Keys to Peter who continued the ministry which quickly became the Catholic Church.

If there were in fact many paths the church woundn’t have been fighting heresy for 2000-years. In fact theres only one mystical body of Jesus Christ. All denominations are cells of the body not connected to the body.

There is only “One Truth”.

BTW while it great you rose above some personal issues, you do realize people do that every day and haven’t found any God. They just decided to face their issues and deal with them productively instead of living in denial and acting of their feelings daily.🤷
But I didn’t rise…He did it. I never would have.
I understand your view which you have stated well. I get your view. I just absolutely see it the other way.
 
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