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Reuben_J
Guest
Right. You can assume and assume rightly so.
When Muslims say Jesus Christ, it is like saying Alexander the Great but not knowing why Alexander was great. Eventually Alexander’s name is Alexander the Great because he was called that by some early historians but without knowing why the historians called him great.
Thus Jesus Christ for all purpose is just a name for Muslims. If they say Messiah means the Anointed, then do they say Jesus the King? The Anointed traditionally means a King to the Jews bearing in mind their history.
Now if modern and quite well informed Muslims who can answer most of the argument here do not know what the term ‘Christ’ stands for, it surely lead one to think.
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Reuben_J
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Like maybe it is not there in the official Islamic teachings.
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paarsurrey
Guest
Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
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Paarsurrey says:
- All Christians, whatever the denomination, in my opinion, believe that Jesus died a cursed death on Cross.
- All Christians, whatever the denomination, in my opinion, believe that Jesus was raised from the dead.
- All Christians, whatever the denomination, in my opinion, believe that Jesus ascended to heavens and seated himself on the right hand of God; and assumed all powers from him.
- All Muslims, whatever the denomination, in my opinion, believe from Quran that Jesus did not die a cursed death on Cross.
- TraditionalMuslims believe from Hadith, in my opinion, that Jesus ascended to heavens from the Cross and his abode is on the first or second level of heavens, along with John the Baptist his cousin, and not beyond that.
- Muslims perceive that in his Second Coming he won’t be an Independent Messenger but would be in the Ummah of Muhammad.
- He will be a Caliph or Successor of Muhammad and hence follow Quran and the Acts or Sunnah of Muhammad. He will be a Muslim and not a Christian in faith.
- This is the Seal of Muhammad; through him and with him God has sealed the fate of all other nations of the world. Nobody can receive any Revelation or Word from God; unless he becomes a follower of Quran and Acts/Sunnah of Muhammad.
This is what **Second Coming **1835-1908 exactly is:
• He is from the Ummah of Muhammad.
• He is in the capacity of a follower Caliph Successor of Muhammad.
• He follows Quran and Acts/Sunnah of Muhammad.
• The Seal on Christians, Jews and others is intact; as Quran is intact- not changed and Sunnah of Muhammad is not changed.
• Second Coming has take place in Ummah of Muhammad; and Christians, if they don’t believe in it, would be waiting as the Jews who denied Jesus are still waiting. This is the Seal; their destiny has been sealed by God.
I think my CatholicsProtestantsJWs friends as well as Muslims understand it.
There is however no compulsion in religion; one may believe whatever one likes out of free will.
I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna.
Thanks
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Sister_Amy
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I have an interesting thought.
Many prophets are given titles in the Qur’an, not just Jesus. I don’t know the explanation of all those titles, personally, but don’t consider it to be so crucial. I think it’s only on the matter of Jesus which Christians seem to have a problem with titles in the Qur’an–because clearly Jesus is called the Messiah, and clearly not called the son of God (or in other words such an idea is rebuked.)
So are Christians here just out to say that Muslims are wrong? (They seem to enjoy saying that whether true or not.) Or haven’t you realized that only Christians add implications to the title ‘Messiah,’ though Jews and Muslims do not, even though the word is derived in their languages (Hebrew in Arabic)?
What does it mean, what does it mean–a constant question asked regarding Jesus by Christians here. The intent is to suggest that it means what they the Christians think it means, clearly. But have any of you ever considered that Christians might have attached meaning to something where it does not belong, and the meaning they concluded is actually wrong?
I don’t typically turn around and attack Christianity–and I don’t really need an answer to this post, I just find it amusing how passionately some of you argue such trivial things.
Many prophets are given titles in the Qur’an, not just Jesus. I don’t know the explanation of all those titles, personally, but don’t consider it to be so crucial. I think it’s only on the matter of Jesus which Christians seem to have a problem with titles in the Qur’an–because clearly Jesus is called the Messiah, and clearly not called the son of God (or in other words such an idea is rebuked.)
So are Christians here just out to say that Muslims are wrong? (They seem to enjoy saying that whether true or not.) Or haven’t you realized that only Christians add implications to the title ‘Messiah,’ though Jews and Muslims do not, even though the word is derived in their languages (Hebrew in Arabic)?
What does it mean, what does it mean–a constant question asked regarding Jesus by Christians here. The intent is to suggest that it means what they the Christians think it means, clearly. But have any of you ever considered that Christians might have attached meaning to something where it does not belong, and the meaning they concluded is actually wrong?
I don’t typically turn around and attack Christianity–and I don’t really need an answer to this post, I just find it amusing how passionately some of you argue such trivial things.
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Reuben_J
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It is clearly crucial. The Quran corrects those who associate partners with God by saying Father, Son and Mary.
If it understands what the term Messiah really mean, surely it would not agree with it. The fact that the Quran parroted this term when referring to Jesus clearly shows it does not understand what the term stands for. Otherwise it will be in the unlikely event that the Quran contradicts itself.
It was the Christian who gave the term Christ for Jesus with specific purpose and intention. By Mohammad’s time in the seventh century this term should be already extensively used.
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paarsurrey
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Hi
I agree with the contents in your this post. Once they entered the mythical realm; to justify it they have to digg deeper into it.
I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddah and Krishna.
Thanks
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Sister_Amy
Guest
Does Messiah mean “Son of God?” Seriously.
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ralphinal
Guest
Messiah does not literally mean Son of God. I want to point out that the title has HUGE implications for the Jews. Christians and Jews hold that the Messiah has a special function, one holding that it is yet to occure, the other that it has occured.
I think that the issue that Christians see is that if Jesus is the Messiah, and Muslims do use that title for him, then there is no need for Muhammed to exist. SInne Islam does not explain the title, it is a point missed on Muslims
I think that the issue that Christians see is that if Jesus is the Messiah, and Muslims do use that title for him, then there is no need for Muhammed to exist. SInne Islam does not explain the title, it is a point missed on Muslims
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Eucharisted
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Messiah means “Anointed One.” The Kings of Israel were anonted with oil by the priests to show they were chosen by God to reign over the Kingdom of Israel. When they were anointed, a psalm was sung, wherein they were called “sons of God”, i.e., vicars of God on earth.
It is a rabbinic tradition that the Messiah will be the true son of God.
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TomaszA
Guest
Peace Amy,
Do you know what the Jews mean by “Messiah”? Did they believe there could be a prophet after the Messiah?
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Sister_Amy
Guest
I’m not, nor have I ever been Jewish. So you should consult Jews. Here is an excellent resource on the matter.
I imagine the Muslim view is pretty similar. The difference is first that Muslims believe Jesus is/was the Messiah, and secondly that Jesus is going to return. So anything not necessarily accomplished during his life (like being a political leader and fighting battles) is more than likely prophesied to occur when Jesus returns.
But Jews certainly don’t think the Messiah is a “savior” or divine of the “son of God.” And neither do Muslims.
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Sister_Amy
Guest
Is it difficult to accept that Muslims hold the Messiah has a special function as well, but like the Jews, they don’t think it has occurred yet? Muslims believe Jesus is going to return at the end of times.
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inJESUS
Guest
when Muhammad said that Jesus is the Messiah, he shot himself in the foot because Jews believe that the line of prophets end with the Messiah. Muhammad clearly did not know what The Messiah means.
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TomaszA
Guest
Peace Amy,
We have in our position a body of ancient Jewish literature called the Targums. They’re essentially Aramaic Bibles (OT obviously) with commentary. They’re dated to around 100 years before or after Jesus, but the exact dating is unimportant because it reveals to us how ancient Jews interpreted the Bible. What we want to focus on is how Jews living around Jesus’ time interpreted certain prophecies.
Let’s take a look at just two prophecies the Targums regard as Messianic.
1) Isaiah 9:6
2) Isaiah 53
Isaiah 53 reveals the Messiah would suffer for our iniquities and bear our sins. In other words, it describes the Messiah as Savior.
Isaiah 9:6 says the Messiah will be called, El-Gibbor, which means Mighty God. This reveals the Divinity of the Messiah.
What’s interesting is that Jews after Jesus started to rethink the interpretation of the Targums because Christians used them to support Jesus as Messiah! Isaiah 9:6 and Isaiah 53 were interpreted to mean something completely different!
Now the difficulty is apparent. God revealed He is One, yet He inspired the Prophet Isaiah to reveal the Messiah is Divine. This would be a very difficult passage to reconcile prior to the coming of Christ and the full revelation of the Trinity! The Jews however, faithfully passed this passage down in tact and even regarded it as Messianic prophecy!
It is clear to me that Jesus fulfilled these prophecies and fulfilled them abundantly!
You’d be right in saying that contemporary Jews would have difficulty in acknowledging that the Messiah is Divine and a Savior, but was this always the case?
We have in our position a body of ancient Jewish literature called the Targums. They’re essentially Aramaic Bibles (OT obviously) with commentary. They’re dated to around 100 years before or after Jesus, but the exact dating is unimportant because it reveals to us how ancient Jews interpreted the Bible. What we want to focus on is how Jews living around Jesus’ time interpreted certain prophecies.
Let’s take a look at just two prophecies the Targums regard as Messianic.
1) Isaiah 9:6
2) Isaiah 53
Isaiah 53 reveals the Messiah would suffer for our iniquities and bear our sins. In other words, it describes the Messiah as Savior.
Isaiah 9:6 says the Messiah will be called, El-Gibbor, which means Mighty God. This reveals the Divinity of the Messiah.
What’s interesting is that Jews after Jesus started to rethink the interpretation of the Targums because Christians used them to support Jesus as Messiah! Isaiah 9:6 and Isaiah 53 were interpreted to mean something completely different!
Now the difficulty is apparent. God revealed He is One, yet He inspired the Prophet Isaiah to reveal the Messiah is Divine. This would be a very difficult passage to reconcile prior to the coming of Christ and the full revelation of the Trinity! The Jews however, faithfully passed this passage down in tact and even regarded it as Messianic prophecy!
It is clear to me that Jesus fulfilled these prophecies and fulfilled them abundantly!
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Sister_Amy
Guest
You don’t get it, do you? Muslims certainly don’t believe everything that the Jews believe, or that the Jews are right about everything.
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The_Preacher
Guest
Did you know that the final break between Christians and Jews occured in 70 AD when the leaders of the rebellion declaired their general the “messuah” and the Christians walked out? Good thing too. Cesar was a nasty one. The fact that Messiah means the anointed one also helped give rise to the Adoptionist herracy.
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ralphinal
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We discussed this with some Jewish posters last year. It was actually one of the reasons that the Jews of the late first century until today have issues with Christians. SOme of them held that by walking out, we betrayed them to Rome. AS if we would have made any difference.
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inJESUS
Guest
sure, even if they were Jesus’ disciples. So we have OT and NT, Jews and Christians, Jesus and His apostles on one side (in harmony about this point), and Muhammad on the other, Muhammad who said Jesus is named the Christ Jesus. I say the choice is easy.
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ralphinal
Guest
OK. NOw, I will accept this as a possible answer. However, what roles will he have as messiah at that time?
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