Messiah/Christ In Islam

[inJESUS]

does not matter at all . What will we do with his complexion ? Salvation is not depending on it.

)

i asked because Paar quoted two hadith, one saying red and one saying brown. Besides, not every question has to be about salvation.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/ Peace

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

… not every question has to be about salvation.

time is very limited in this world. Must not we be more careful about salvation rather than wasting time about what was the complextion of Jesus (p) ?

 

[inJESUS]

Salaam/ Peace

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

time is very limited in this world. Must not we be more careful about salvation rather than wasting time about what was the complextion of Jesus (p) ?

was Muhammad wasting his time?

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/ Peace

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

was Muhammad wasting his time?

lol He was a Prophet (p) , he made a miraculous journey to meet God , to see some Prophets of God , to see hell & heaven etc. Naturally people asked him about those matters

Prophet (p) taught people about him & other prophets including Christ (p) that no one is son of God or God . If we think more about this teaching that was also the teaching of all Prophets , that will benifit us more

 

[inJESUS]

So when people asked, he didn’t say it’s a waste of time. He respnded one time saying red and another saying brown.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/ Peace

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

So when people asked, he didn’t say it’s a waste of time.

Those who visted Jeresalem asked him funny questions like how many doors/windows are there at the mosque etc etc. To convince the people that he really went there , Prophet (p) gave answers to all their questions including the silly ones.

He respnded one time saying red and another saying brown.

It’s not possible that Prophet answered 2 different types , it’s possible that those who recorded the answer later made mistake. Hadith is not Quran. God promised to keep Quran free from corruptions but there is no such promise about hadith .

 

[TomaszA]

Those who visted Jeresalem asked him funny questions like how many doors/windows are there at the mosque etc etc. To convince the people that he really went there , Prophet (p) gave answers to all their questions including the silly ones.

The problem is the Temple of Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD by the Romans. Masjid al Aqsa was built in 691 AD by Amir Abd’Malik.

For this reason, believing Muhammad visited Jerusalem on a heavenly horse with a female face to see a Temple that was destroyed five centuries ago, is untenable.

Yet another obstacle that prevents us from accepting Muhammad as a genuine prophet.

 

[planten]

The problem is the Temple of Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD by the Romans. Masjid al Aqsa was built in 691 AD by Amir Abd’Malik.

For this reason, believing Muhammad visited Jerusalem on a heavenly horse with a female face to see a Temple that was destroyed five centuries ago, is untenable.

Yet another obstacle that prevents us from accepting Muhammad as a genuine prophet.

**Tomas, you have raised a good question. But please believe that the prophet did not lie about it. He actually went to that holy place and also to the seven heavens and above. It was a spiritual journey, a vision (true dream)… Muhammad did not leave his bed for that journey.

It was not a physical transportation. Later he described his vision which is noted in the books of Hadith. But Quran also mentions the unusual experience in few verses. It is all true.**

 

[The_Preacher]

The Church encourages such investigation to a point. Pope John Paul II encouraged scientists to investigate cosmological events around the big band but instructed them not to investigate that phenomena itself.

The Church has reformed itself a great deal in the last few decades but the index of prohibited books, the murder of Jan Hus, and other historical events cast your black and white portrayal of Christianity and Islam into serious question. The reaction of some Muslims surrounding the Satanic Verses was unfortunate, but before you take to much personal satisfaction from this I would ask you to remember Aquinas’s teachings that heretics out to be executed by the state. With all due respect, from a historical perspective, you Church’s actions and reactions with regards to criticisms has been less than exemplary.

*With regard to heretics there are two points to be observed, one on their side, the other on the side of the Church. As for heretics their sin deserves banishment, not only from the Church by excommunication, but also from this world by death. To corrupt the faith, whereby the soul lives, is much graver than to counterfeit money, which supports temporal life. Since forgers and other malefactors are summarily condemned to death by the civil authorities, with much more reason may heretics as soon as they are convicted of heresy be not only excommunicated, but also justly be put to death.

But on the side of the Church is mercy which seeks the conversion of the wanderer, and She condemns him not at once, but after the first and second admonition, as the Apostle directs. Afterwards, however, if he is still stubborn, the Church takes care of the salvation of others by separating him from the Church through excommunication, and delivers him to the secular court to be removed from this world by death. (ST II:II 11:3)*

I would hope you do not impart such biased and self gratifying methods of analysis to your students.

Well put my friend Much of my own work is strictly internal to the Church and unless and until the Magesterium directs what is to be done with it, I will not preach or teach it to the laity. To do so would be unfair to, indeed abusive of the flock and rightly damable. I am obedient and teach only what the Magesterium, having carefully reflected, considering all the pertinant (name removed by moderator)uts, under the guidance and insperation of the Holy Spirit allows. To allow otherwise brings nothing but a tragic cacactony of untried and frequently untoutered voices as the “reformations” clearly demonstrate. That is where Huss went wrong and what he was rightly punished for. The Faith is just too important a thing to leave to individual judgement and carisma. By the way: It is my impression that those good men, priests many, laboring out in the Arazona desert under the auspices of the Papal Observatory (Rome has just too much light polution) feel under no restriction, except that it is not for them to make theological pronouncements on the basis of their findings. That is not their field of experties, as they themselves gladly conceed. I assure you that the Magesterium, here and now, takes their work very much into consideration, but it cannot be allowed to be the only consideration. I assure you that the only thing self serving in what I do is the gratification that I am of service of my Lord. God bless! Oh, and please don’t place too much emphasis on my being a teacher. I am not a great mover and shaker, just a humble laborer in the local field. Just good enough to be recognized as legitimate.

 

[TomaszA]

Peace Planten,

It was not a physical transportation. Later he described his vision which is noted in the books of Hadith. But Quran also mentions the unusual experience in few verses. It is all true.

My understanding is that Muslims have traditionally regarded this as a physical transportation, and not merely a vision.

If it were just a dream or vision, there would be no difficulty in accepting that it happened. The difficulty is in accepting that he made such a great journey over so short a space of time, and even rode up to heaven. This explains why the people would have doubted him.

 

[planten]

So when people asked, he didn’t say it’s a waste of time. He respnded one time saying red and another saying brown.

Dear inJesus, there are two Hadith. In one Hadith, Muhammad described the real Isa son of Mary who has passed away and is in company of John the baptist in heavens. That was a scene from the spirtual acsention of muhammad (The Mi’raaj). In this meeting with Isa a.s. the prophet saw that he was a Pink color or whitish red, as are the people of Syria. He had long curly hair and wide chest.

The other description is about an Isa who the prophet saw in his vision that Isa was going around the Ka’abah ( circling, tawaaf). That Isa appeared to be brown color with black hair hanging down onto the ears. The prophet asked who is that. He was told by the angel that is Isa son of Maryam.

It proves that this is a different Isa. i.e. the second manifestation of Jesus as some friends are telling us.

 

[severntofall]

Salaam/ Peace

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

lol He was a Prophet (p) , he made a miraculous journey to meet God , to see some Prophets of God , to see hell & heaven etc. Naturally people asked him about those matters

And why do you believe these things? Is there any chance that he just made these things up? If no…why not? Is the fact that he claimed to be a prophet all the proof you need? BTW, I’m a prophet. Do you believe it when I say it? I’ll provide all the proof of this claim that Muhammed did.

Prophet (p) taught people about him & other prophets including Christ (p) that no one is son of God or God . If we think more about this teaching that was also the teaching of all Prophets , that will benifit us more

 

[inJESUS]

So Planten the first coming of Isa was with a red complexion but the second in a brown complexion. Why is that? isn’t he supposed to be the same Isa or a different one as believed by Ahmadi?

 

[Sam_777]

Dear inJesus, there are two Hadith. In one Hadith, Muhammad described the real Isa son of Mary who has passed away and is in company of John the baptist in heavens. That was a scene from the spirtual acsention of muhammad (The Mi’raaj). In this meeting with Isa a.s. the prophet saw that he was a Pink color or whitish red, as are the people of Syria. He had long curly hair and wide chest.

The other description is about an Isa who the prophet saw in his vision that Isa was going around the Ka’abah ( circling, tawaaf). That Isa appeared to be brown color with black hair hanging down onto the ears. The prophet asked who is that. He was told by the angel that is Isa son of Maryam.

It proves that this is a different Isa. i.e. the second manifestation of Jesus as some friends are telling us.

It is well known by a confirmed Hadith that a Masiha was propmised by the prophet fro the Ummah like a Masiha for the Jews. From that hadith, it appears that that Masiha is not the old Israeli prophet, i.e. the son of Mary. It will have to be a new person and he will be a leader (Imam) for the Muslims.

There will be no religious wars. Nobody should kill any one for the sake of religion only.

planten I thought you don’t believe in hadith as mentioned here, here, and here.
Or since they satisfy your claim then its okay to believe in them, but when they say Muhammed married Aish at 6, its not okay!

 

[Muslim_Woman]

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…Muhammad did not leave his bed for that journey.
]

some new Muslims left Islam after hearing about the journey. If it was only a dream , then what was the problem with that ?

I can have a dream of visiting Naputre , Venus , Sun etc. Surely no one will think that I became mad ; we can see anything in our dreams.

Also , when some people went to Abu Bakar (ra) for teasing & asked if he believed what Prophet (p) is saying , his reply was if he said so , I believe . After that , Abu Bakar (p) was given the title Siddique .

 

[Muslim_Woman]

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Salaam/ Peace

The problem is the Temple of Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD by the Romans.

may be it was not in the exact shape as we see now a days , but Prophet (p) surely went to that place & offered salat .

Yet another obstacle that prevents us from accepting Muhammad as a genuine prophet.

no problem

To you be your Way, and to me mine. (109:6)

 

[planten]

planten I thought you don’t believe in hadith as mentioned here, here, and here.
Or since they satisfy your claim then its okay to believe in them, but when they say Muhammed married Aish at 6, its not okay!

I believe in Hadith in the third stage. First is Quran. Second is Sunnah (The actual practice of the prophet Muhammad). Third is teh Hadith, if it conforms to the Quran and Sunnah. There are rules for accepting any Hadith. (I need not present them here). The hadith is to serve the Quran and the Sunnah. Some Hadith are just singular reports. They are considered weak.

The Hadith about the coming of a Masiha in the Muslim Ummah has been described in the two most important books of Hadith, i.e. Bukhari and Muslim.

Moreover, that Hadith about teh coming of a Masiha for Muslims is reported with an oath of the prophet. It has two special letters, the L and Double N in it which emphasize it.

The wording of the Hadith tells us that it will not be the same old Isa (Jesus) but it will be some new person from the Ummah. I can explain it further if required. But the explanation will be new to the Muslims too.

 

[TomaszA]

Peace InJESUS,

So Planten the first coming of Isa was with a red complexion but the second in a brown complexion. Why is that? isn’t he supposed to be the same Isa or a different one as believed by Ahmadi?

It’s interesting that you were discussing the complexion of Jesus according to Islam.

As you know Muslims call Jesus** Isa**, which is more like the Hebrew name Esau instead of Yeshua.

In Genesis 25:24-26 Esau, the brother of Jacob, is described as having reddish skin.

I wonder if there is some connection?

God bless,
Tomasz

 

[TomaszA]

Peace Muslim Woman,

may be it was not in the exact shape as we see now a days , but Prophet (p) surely went to that place & offered salat

When Umar conquered Jerusalem in 637 AD, he discovered the Temple to not only be in utter ruins, but being used as a garbage dump by the Romans!

Islamic tradition says Muhammad made the night journey in 620 AD. Strange that he did not see what Umar saw seventeen years later.

To you be your Way, and to me mine. (109:6)

Thank you and God bless,
Tomasz

 

[paarsurrey]

When Umar conquered Jerusalem in 637 AD, he discovered the Temple to not only be in utter ruins, but being used as a garbage dump by the Romans!
Islamic tradition says Muhammad made the night journey in 620 AD. Strange that he did not see what Umar saw seventeen years later.

Hi TomaszA

You are right .Since Muhammad saw Jerusalem in a vision, that did not need to be Jerusalem of that time; it could be when Jerusalem was in its glory. Visionary things don’t have necessarily any time limit.

Thanks