Messiah/Christ In Islam

[TomaszA]

Hi TomaszA

You are right .Since Muhammad saw Jerusalem in a vision, that did not need to be Jerusalem of that time; it could be when Jerusalem was in its glory. Visionary things don’t have necessarily any time limit.

Thanks

I personally don’t think Muhammad revealed it as a mere vision, and this is apparently supported by Islamic tradition. However if you choose to believe this way that’s fine with me! The only problem is with this theory Muslims have no claim to Jerusalem! It means Muhammad never set foot on sacred Jewish ground.

 

[paarsurrey]

I personally don’t think Muhammad revealed it as a mere vision, and this is apparently supported by Islamic tradition. However if you choose to believe this way that’s fine with me! The only problem is with this theory Muslims have no claim to Jerusalem! It means Muhammad never set foot on sacred Jewish ground.

Hi TomaszA

I think here we don’t discuss land-grabbing. That is job of the politicians and statesmen. We discuss here as to how we can purify our own hearts and this way win other’s hearts and souls; which is only possible with truth and love.

Thanks

 

[planten]

Peace InJESUS,

It’s interesting that you were discussing the complexion of Jesus according to Islam.

As you know Muslims call Jesus** Isa**, which is more like the Hebrew name Esau instead of Yeshua.

In Genesis 25:24-26 Esau, the brother of Jacob, is described as having reddish skin.

I wonder if there is some connection?
God bless,
Tomasz

**Tomas, please understand that wherever Isa is referred, it is written Isa son of Mary. Esau was not son of Mary (Maryam). Perhaps Esau had reddish hair too. But Prophet di dnot say that the color of Isa’s hair was red (People call them ginger).

Quran calls Isa (Jesus) as son of Maryam.**

 

[severntofall]

Muslim Woman or any of the Muslim participants on this board, why is it that you believe that Muhammed is in fact Allah’s prophet? Do you take this entirely on faith? Is there a reason you believe this?

 

[TomaszA]

Peace Planten,

Tomas, please understand that wherever Isa is referred, it is written Isa son of Mary. Esau was not son of Mary (Maryam). Perhaps Esau had reddish hair too. But Prophet di dnot say that the color of Isa’s hair was red (People call them ginger).

What is the Arabic version of Jacob’s brother, Esau?

 

[The_Preacher]

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Salaam/ Peace

may be it was not in the exact shape as we see now a days , but Prophet (p) surely went to that place & offered salat .

no problem

To you be your Way, and to me mine. (109:6)

Perhapt you’ve overlooked the fact that Jesus prophized that He would destroy that temple (because God would never again dwell in it) and raise it up again in three days. The Gospel makes it clear that God is His own temple in the persone of Jesus the Christ and to look to another is as the Preacher of Eccleasties put it; futility, and chaseing after wind.

 

[severntofall]

Muslim Woman or any of the Muslim participants on this board, why is it that you believe that Muhammed is in fact Allah’s prophet? Do you take this entirely on faith? Is there a reason you believe this?

I expected no answer to this question, but we all know what the answer is. You have been told daily since your birth that Muhammed is in fact a prophet. You take it soley on faith, no evidence necessary…nor will evidence be tolerated. Muhammed is Allah’s prophet soley because he said he was. We know that Gabriel spoke to him only becuase Muhammed claimed it to be so…only Muhammed could see or hear him. Mulsims, perhaps better than all others, excel at the art of indoctrination.

 

[planten]

I expected no answer to this question, but we all know what the answer is. You have been told daily since your birth that Muhammed is in fact a prophet. You take it soley on faith, no evidence necessary…nor will evidence be tolerated. Muhammed is Allah’s prophet soley because he said he was. We know that Gabriel spoke to him only becuase Muhammed claimed it to be so…only Muhammed could see or hear him. Mulsims, perhaps better than all others, excel at the art of indoctrination.

No, No, severntofall, That is not the case. Muhammad was a prophet of Allah just like all other prophets. The other prophets had no angel walking with them telling the people that this was a prophet. same with Jesus and Moses. They did not have any one walking with them yelling to the people that those were the prophets, Same for John the Baptist.

When angel told John the baptist that mary was already pregnant there was nobody there as witness. Allah had been sending messengers for a very long time to all nations of the world to all people. There is no nation which was not given a warner. But we have mostly record of the messengers sent to the children of Abraham.

The prophet will prophesise. Muhammad prophesied that the pagans will be defeated. That came true. He prophesied that the Persians will be defeated by the Romans (Christians) within 3 to 9 years (That was around 625 A.D.). That came true. He prophesied that his religion will overcome all other religions and it will spread world wide. that came true. There are hundreds of Muhammads prophesies which came true in time and even today, miracles/ prophesies of Muhammad are becoming true.

Even today, Allah speaks to the beloved servants of Muhammad, like He used to speak to some non-prophets in the Jews and the Christians.

 

[severntofall]

No, No, severntofall, That is not the case. Muhammad was a prophet of Allah just like all other prophets. The other prophets had no angel walking with them telling the people that this was a prophet. same with Jesus and Moses. They did not have any one walking with them yelling to the people that those were the prophets, Same for John the Baptist.

When angel told John the baptist that mary was already pregnant there was nobody there as witness. Allah had been sending messengers for a very long time to all nations of the world to all people. There is no nation which was not given a warner. But we have mostly record of the messengers sent to the children of Abraham.

The prophet will prophesise. Muhammad prophesied that the pagans will be defeated. That came true. He prophesied that the Persians will be defeated by the Romans (Christians) within 3 to 9 years (That was around 625 A.D.). That came true. He prophesied that his religion will overcome all other religions and it will spread world wide. that came true. There are hundreds of Muhammads prophesies which came true in time and even today, miracles/ prophesies of Muhammad are becoming true.

Even today, Allah speaks to the beloved servants of Muhammad, like He used to speak to some non-prophets in the Jews and the Christians.

I would like to research the prophesies you speak of, the ones you listed were kind of weak.

 

[Reuben_J]

No, No, severntofall, That is not the case. Muhammad was a prophet of Allah just like all other prophets. The other prophets had no angel walking with them telling the people that this was a prophet. same with Jesus and Moses. They did not have any one walking with them yelling to the people that those were the prophets, Same for John the Baptist.

Just a short interjection.

You are trying to bring up criteria to determine a prophet.

The question is how do we know the person is a prophet? Some commoners about past prophets are:

1. Their coming was prophesized in the Holy Scriptures.
2. They perform miracles as signs. Moses parting of the Red sea and changing water from rock. Jesus raising the deads, healing the sicks, delivering out demons, calming the sea, water to wine, multiplication of the fishes and bread, etc.
3. Their revelations do not contradict too much the previous scriptures.
4. To some extent, personal righteousness.
5. You may have angel or not; or you can have God speaking directly to the prophet.

 

[severntofall]

Just a short interjection.

You are trying to bring up criteria to determine a prophet.

The question is how do we know the person is a prophet? Some commoners about past prophets are:

1. Their coming was prophesized in the Holy Scriptures.
2. They perform miracles as signs. Moses parting of the Red sea and changing water from rock. Jesus raising the deads, healing the sicks, delivering out demons, calming the sea, water to wine, multiplication of the fishes and bread, etc.
3. Their revelations do not contradict too much the previous scriptures.
4. To some extent, personal righteousness.
5. You may have angel or not; or you can have God speaking directly to the prophet.

You forgot:
6. Their personal behavior should not totally discredit their claims of holiness.

Otherwise I agree that a person is not a prophet merely because they say they are…even if they do make a few relatively non spectacular prediction (we all do that).

 

[inJESUS]

Peace Planten,

What is the Arabic version of Jacob’s brother, Esau?

Isoa

Isa is written عيسى
Esau is written عيسو

 

[planten]

Peace Planten,

What is the Arabic version of Jacob’s brother, Esau?

**Please Tomas, whatever be the name of jacob’s brother Esau in Arabic, he is not the Messiah of the Quran. He is not the son of Mary. There is such a long time difference between Esau and Jesus. Moreover, Jesus of the Quran was the son of Maryam who belonged to the family of Imran.

Esau did not belong to the family of Imran. Please reply.**

 

[planten]

Just a short interjection.

You are trying to bring up criteria to determine a prophet.

The question is how do we know the person is a prophet? Some commoners about past prophets are:

See my remarks too.

1. Their coming was prophesized in the Holy Scriptures.

True. Muhammad had been prophesied in the bibleOT and NT. But some people have denied those prophesies. So it is not the fault of Muhammad.

1. They perform miracles as signs. Moses parting of the Red sea and changing water from rock. Jesus raising the deads, healing the sicks, delivering out demons, calming the sea, water to wine, multiplication of the fishes and bread, etc

.

True. They perform miracles. Moses performed miracles and so did Jesus. But it is bad if you recognised Moses as a prophet after he performed miracles or after he finished performing miracles.

Muhammad also performed many miracles and prophesied many things. Please remember that we do not admit the raising of the dead and making birds out of clay as the miracles of Jesus, and yet we admit that he was a prophet of God.

1. Their revelations do not contradict too much the previous scriptures.

Correct. I hope there is not too much difference between the OT and the NT and yet the Jews and christians are flung far apart. The main teaching of the prophets had been Unitarian faith. The Quran does say anything against it. But it rather affirms it all the more.

The teaching. of the later prophets should not be against the earlier ones. Quran does not blame any prophet or abuse him with any bad word.

1. To some extent, personal righteousness

.

The life of Muhammad was a perfect example for all mankind. He was very pious and God fearing person. He had the highest spiritual and moral standard. Please read the book “100 Greatest men of the world.”
.

1. You may have angel or not; or you can have God speaking directly to the prophet.

Reuben, Please see my replies given above. Muhammad meets all standars of the previous prophets. God can speak to His prophets in many ways. So Allah spoke to MUhammad care of the angel Gabriel.

In the OT we have so many prophets saying “So says your Lord…” “So says your Lord…” Perhaps nobody saw the Lord saying anything to those prophets. But they had got the message, all of them. It is by revelation that the messages are passed.

.

 

[planten]

You forgot:
6. Their personal behavior should not totally discredit their claims of holiness.

Otherwise I agree that a person is not a prophet merely because they say they are…even if they do make a few relatively non spectacular prediction (we all do that).

Please do not be a judge of the prophets on your own wishes. You are not their headmaster.

We see many prophets (Whom we understand as prophets) in the bible OT doing utterly bad things. That is the report of the bible, may be specially designed to extradite some from the list of prophets. See Adam, see Noah, See LOT, see Aaron, David and Soloman all have been maligned. No such thing is in Quran about them.

People in that age were not fools. The people of the age were the best judges. They would not accept any one as a leader if the person had bad character.

 

[Sam_777]

True. Muhammad had been prophesied in the bibleOT and NT. But some people have denied those prophesies. So it is not the fault of Muhammad…

well said planten :aok:, I personally don’t deny them :

(Matthew 24:11):
“And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.”

(1 John 4:1):
“Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.”

(Matthew 7:15-16):
“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?”

(2 Pet 2:1-3):
“But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them–bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.”

 

[planten]

Isoa

Isa is written عيسى
Esau is written عيسو

Thanks. I have already replied that Esau has nothing to do with Isa of the Quran. They lived long time (difference) apart. Moreover Isa was son of Mary, from the family of Imran. Esau was not.

 

[Reuben_J]

Thanks. I have already replied that Esau has nothing to do with Isa of the Quran. They lived long time (difference) apart. Moreover Isa was son of Mary, from the family of Imran. Esau was not.

Is Imran equivalent to Aaron in English?

 

[inJESUS]

Is Imran equivalent to Aaron in English?

Aaron in the Arabic Bible is called Harun. I don’t know where Imran is from but it is the Islamic equivalent to Aaron.

 

[inJESUS]

Muhammad prophecised in the Bible. Prophesised to do what exactly? the OT and NT say the Messianic Covenant is eternal . If you believe in the Messiah, where does muhammad fit except in wishful thinking of Biblical corruption? Jesus says the Law and Prophets He fulfills. The whole History of Israel (God’s “son”) is fulfilled by Jesus, that is why they are called “shadows to come”.

Israel is God’s son.
God called his son (Israel) out of Egypt.
Israel suffered in the wilderness.
God will raise his son (Israel) from the Grave/Sheol/Hades on the third day.

Now we go to the NT:

Jesus is called Israel.
Jesus is God’s Son.
Jesus went to Egypt and then out of Egypt.
Jesus suffered.
Jesus raised out of the Grave/Sheol/Hades on the third day.

This is the History of God’s people and how God dealth with it step by step to lead them to salvation, and the history is fulfilled in the person of Jesus who fulfills everything and ends it with salvation. The history is the suffering servant (israel) is fulfilled by the suffering Jesus and the salvation of the suffering Israel fulfilled by the suffering Messiah in the name of everyone, for everyone.

You claim corruption when the whole OT and NT are in harmony, unlike the Quran written haphasardly, without theme or coherence, according to surah length, and you still claim it is a masterpiece when it contradicts both OT and NT and isn’t even in harmony with them or with itself. God is faithful, and His faithfulness to His promise is fulfilled. Muhammad simply has no place in all of the above except to fulfill the false prophet prophecies who will challenge the Spirit who weaved the Bible in harmony and fulfillment and to challenge the Plan of God’s salvation by claming no one is saved unless he believes in an Arab called Muhammad who brought a book contradicting other scriptures, written haphasardly with no coherence, as if the prophecies and promises and harmony of OT and NT teachings and Jesus’ fulfillment never existed.