Messy Roomate

[JeraldW]

Hey all

I live with two other young men in a one bedroom apartment, we live in an area where living quarters are in short supply and expensive.

One of the young men is my buddy, he is 18 years old, and is like a second little brother to me. He is extremely mature for his age. He barely makes a mess at all, and I do see him do dishes, take out the garbage, etc.

However, my other roomate is 29. He is VERY messy!!! I have not -ever- seen him take out the garbage, sweep, vaccume, clean the bathroom, do dishes, you name it. He leaves food schnibles and stains everywhere. He leaves dirty dishes, clothes, food containers, all over the place. I need to reprimand him like a 12 year old to get him to clean anything. Then I feel like either his dad or just a plain nag.
He eats both my buddy and I’s food. I made a huge container full of delicious chili to last me a week. I come back after work one day and its half gone. he even made a mess taking it out of my container all over the countertop. He then just ate a box of mac and cheese that my buddy was saving, and made a mess with the noodles in the sink (no garbage disposal)
He also smokes cigarettes. Although I myself smoke my pipe -maybe- once a month, I hate the smell and mess cigarettes make, not to mention the health detriments of the inhaling and jacked up nictotine and tar found in them. I have caught him smoking 3 times and he woudl deny and then apologize, vowing to never do it again.

I work sometimes a couple of 14 hr days in a row, and i somehow find the time to keep clean. I am often dog tired, but do it anyway.

I really want to just kick him out, but i also do not want to be uncharitable towards him. My mother says I should give him two weeks to improve, if no change give him a two week notice.

I am so frusterated at the moment i am just letting him sit in his own filth for these two weeks. I used to clean up after i would get sick and tired of it all, but then i just feel like his mommy.
Both my buddy and I work in dirty, muddy enviroments, and like having a nice aparment to come home to after a long days work.

What gets me is that Mr. Mess is a overall decent guy to be around, and has expressed interest in the Faith. One small thing is that I fear by kicking him out he will think I am a “hypocritical Catholic” and -never- come home to the Church because of my uncharitable action

AAAGH

 

[1ke]

However, my other roomate is 29. He is VERY messy!!!

The three of you need to sit down and have an adult conversation. Line out the rules of the house and set the expectation that everyone contributes equally to cleaning-- assign a chore schedule-- and establish the rules and protocol for eating food you did not purchase.

Also set the expectation that if things do not change, you will be asking him to leave.

I am so frusterated at the moment i am just letting him sit in his own filth for these two weeks. I used to clean up after i would get sick and tired of it all, but then i just feel like his mommy.

If you think this will make an impression on him, you are mistaken. He is oblivious. You need to sit down, have an adult conversation, and establish the rules of the house with full disclosure of your intent to find a new roommate if he is not interested in contributing to the household in an adult manner.

One small thing is that I fear by kicking him out he will think I am a “hypocritical Catholic” and -never- come home to the Church because of my uncharitable action

Establishing house rules and following through on consequences is not uncharitable behavior. He will find roommates who are a better fit for him, ones who like to live in filth.

Remember, it is not you who brings him to Christ but ultimately the Holy Spirit. If he is not mature enough to make the necessary changes in household responsibilities, you simply need to make a change in roommate. This is not personal, it does not mean you cannot be friends. It simply means you are not compatible as roommates. Nothing uncharitable about it. His interest in the Faith is shallow indeed if he would reject it over this.

 

[kmuestwin]

You all need to sit down and have a discussion.

Try to make a cleaning schedule.

If you have any issue with someone’s cleanliness it is always best to talk to them face to face rather than to text or write a note.

 

[ManicFaze]

I had similar issue with my first roommate who also happened to be a close friend of mine, I never thought in a million years we would have the issues we had, as I knew her family and had been to her house many times before which was very well kept. Only after we signed the lease did I find out that her Mother was always picking up after her 247.

After 3 months of constantly cleaning up after her( I’m not a nazi-neat freak but like things clean) I sat her down with pen and paper and asked her to make a list of what I did that annoyed her and I was going to do the same. After we went over one another’s list we drew up a roommate agreement; anytime one of us broke any of the items on the agreement we had to put a small amount of money in the others piggy bank, so in a way I got paid for cleaning up after her in the house common areas or had to change her cats box and she made a little cash anytime one of my guest drank one of her diet sodas, or I got the munchies late @ nite and ate the last her favorite ice cream. Once she noticed how much money she was paying out ever month she began to clean the common areas, and made her boy friend go outside to smoke or made him put money in my bank if he broke that rule.

After this learning curve I made sure anytime I had a roommate we drew up a roommate agreement off the bat, once you put a cash value on things they tend to make sure they clean up after themselves and respect your personal items. And if you do have to clean up the kitchen after they make a mess the 10 bucks you make for it makes it a little more bearable.
If they chose to ignore the roommate agreement and you make it clear they will have to leave if they don’t abide by it, you don’t have to feel guilty when you ask them to move out.
The main thing is to make sure you get a list of things you might be doing that annoy them as well so they don’t feel like you’re picking on them, otherwise I’m sure they will get defensive.
Hope this was of some help of giving you an idea of how to deal with the situation.

 

[Almosserdo]

The time has come to have a happy chat…It has already been referred to above…

Draw up a schedule of duties and house rules but you all must contribute to the discussion. If the worse comes to it he may well be prepared to pay for his corner than perform. This could be quite expensive for him (what would it cost to have a professional cleaner come in to cover his quota?)

At the end of the day you are all living together - I believe the most important thing is for smoking to be done outside in all circumstances. After all that really is an H & S issue!

If you frequently go out for meals and pubbing and clubbing - he may prefer to pay for you all as many times as it takes to change his ways for the better. However, remember this you can’t take a horse to water and force it to drink but don’t forget the case of bricking the camel to gain the extra 2 days in the desert!!!

 

[EasterJoy]

He is 29 years old, he lives like a pig, including eating whatever food is left unattended whether it belongs to him or not and whether he did any work to prepare it or not. You’ve made it clear that he is failing at roommate and described what needs to change, but without any meaningful change from him as a result. He has also never provided food over and above what he needs with the expectation that you will help yourself to it, nor has he ever cleaned up after you. He has either a) taken advantage of you or b) he does not get the concept that it is unfair to allow other people to do your shopping, cooking, and cleaning without any reciprocation.

You cannot teach a pig to sing. You just frustrate yourself and annoy the pig.

If he had made some weak tries at being a better roommate, but then fell back into his bad habits, or if he agreed in principle that the behavior you described was a violation on his part, then you’d have some hopes of seeing him amend his ways by a written agreement that outlines what he is expected to do. If that is the case, the trial described above might work nicely to hold his feet to the fire. It will not make him a clean roommate, though. Unless he’s had some experience in his life during which he enjoyed living as you want to, he will almost certainly still backslide. Accept that right off the top. Do you still want him as a roommate? Accepting him as he is requires that you ask yourself that. Also, accept that he is a smoker. He’s a smoker until he decides to quit, which is probably not going to happen. Just get used to that.

As it is, I think you have someone who has wildly different expectations for himself than you do. In your place, I’d tell him that. “Bob, it’s becoming clear that you and we have wildly different ideas when it comes to community living. We think it is time we each find a situation with more like-minded souls. I’m sorry it didn’t work out, but being a nice guy doesn’t get the dishes done or the shopping done or the house cleaned, and if I have to keep doing that for you, it is going to ruin our friendship entirely. Since my name is on our lease, I’m afraid that means you need to find new roommates. We hope you can do it within two weeks, but we’ll give you 30 days.”

The bright side is that he probably won’t start doing less than he already does on account of being a lame duck.

Will this turn him off Catholics? Why would it? If he’s ready for a religious conversion, he’s ready to examine his own actions and how they affect other people. If the other people he’s been treating badly are nice about it when they tell him that his behavior truly is intolerable, yet they are willing to be friends with him as long as they can avoid those parts of his behavior that are unacceptable without condemning him as a person, I don’t see how that is going to be a bad thing. If he gets mad because you aren’t willing to have him walk all over you, then I don’t think you’re killing a budding religious conversion by telling him that he’s not a good fit for you as a roommate.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

OK, this man needs to have rules established and lines drawn on his behavior. Smoking should be right out, immediately. Really, OP, you should have made that clear from the beginning. Maybe you were too nice to start with. At least now you know you have to set the rules from the start.

Eating other people’s food is beyond rude. You’re not in a family, you’re not providing for him. I would say, “If you eat my food, you will pay for what you ate, I am not running a restaurant.”

The two of you, your buddy and you, are doing everything for him and letting him get away with bad behavior. Sit down and have a talk with him and tell him that he can’t do these things. I would do it sooner than later. And I wouldn’t give him 2 weeks, I’d give him at most 5 days to start cleaning up after himself, and if he ate any more of your food, out he would go.

Whose name is on the lease, BTW?

 

[kmuestwin]

OK, this man needs to have rules established and lines drawn on his behavior. Smoking should be right out, immediately. Really, OP, you should have made that clear from the beginning. Maybe you were too nice to start with. At least now you know you have to set the rules from the start.

Eating other people’s food is beyond rude. You’re not in a family, you’re not providing for him. I would say, “If you eat my food, you will pay for what you ate, I am not running a restaurant.”

The two of you, your buddy and you, are doing everything for him and letting him get away with bad behavior. Sit down and have a talk with him and tell him that he can’t do these things. I would do it sooner than later. And I wouldn’t give him 2 weeks, I’d give him at most 5 days to start cleaning up after himself, and if he ate any more of your food, out he would go.

Whose name is on the lease, BTW?

You are correct in saying that he needs to sit down and speak to his roommate but he doesn’t need to be quite as confrontational as you are telling him to be.

Starting out with a statement like “I’m not running a restaurant” might be exactly how you feel but it’s not the way to get someone to change. This problem can be solved by communication but we need to keep in mind that in our interactions with people the most important thing isn’t what you say but how you say it.

The OP needs to keep an even temper and be firm on his point but he also needs to remain open to what his roommate says and willing to consider that maybe this person he’s living with doesn’t even realize how rude he’s being.

If you use inflammatory statements when discussing a problem of this nature, it gives the person who’s in the wrong an idea of what bothers you, a feeling of being attacked, and a motive for becoming even worse.

Bottom line: This conflict will be decided not by pithy ultimatums but by open and honest communication.

 

[EasterJoy]

You are correct in saying that he needs to sit down and speak to his roommate but he doesn’t need to be quite as confrontational as you are telling him to be.

Starting out with a statement like “I’m not running a restaurant” might be exactly how you feel but it’s not the way to get someone to change. This problem can be solved by communication but we need to keep in mind that in our interactions with people the most important thing isn’t what you say but how you say it.

The OP needs to keep an even temper and be firm on his point but he also needs to remain open to what his roommate says and willing to consider that maybe this person he’s living with doesn’t even realize how rude he’s being.

If you use inflammatory statements when discussing a problem of this nature, it gives the person who’s in the wrong an idea of what bothers you, a feeling of being attacked, and a motive for becoming even worse.

Bottom line: This conflict will be decided not by pithy ultimatums but by open and honest communication.

A motive for becoming worse? He won’t work, not even to clean up his own messes, and he eats food that doesn’t belong to him. How would he accomplish this “getting worse”, exactly? Unmake his roommates’ beds? Leave the refrigerator door open? Maybe he could *actively *import cockroaches, ants, and mice into the kitchen, instead of simply inviting them by leaving food scraps out?

Let us remember that the OP has already used verbal communication with this roommate and he has already tried the “avoid conflict” route. I would be surprised if something along the lines of “where did you get the idea that I’m your personal chef?” has been broached already. Complaining when someone helps themselves to your food is NOT inflammatory!! Eating food that doesn’t belong to you is inflammatory!!

Let us also surmise that it is highly unlikely that this is the first time our 29 year old has heard the maxim that “your mother doesn’t live here, and no one has volunteered to be your scullery maid.” A note to that effect is probably posted in half of the work kitchen common areas I have ever seen!

The smoking is another issue. If it wasn’t forbidden in the first place by the terms of the lease or by the agreement of the roommates, well, it is behavior that smokers typically expect to be allowed in their own homes.

Honestly, though, I’d just get a new roommate. I think this guy’s chances of amendment are very close to zero. If the OP has any desire to remain friends with the guy at all, he’ll say, “hey we’re different, let’s give this up before we drive each other nuts” and let someone else try to train the guy…or live happily with him in squalor, take your pick. Maybe he can find another smoker, they can puff away in peace, and they can hire someone to come in an decontaminate their place twice a month, whether it needs it or not. It is probably a far better outcome than trying to remake him this late in life.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

You are correct in saying that he needs to sit down and speak to his roommate but he doesn’t need to be quite as confrontational as you are telling him to be.

Starting out with a statement like “I’m not running a restaurant” might be exactly how you feel but it’s not the way to get someone to change. This problem can be solved by communication but we need to keep in mind that in our interactions with people the most important thing isn’t what you say but how you say it.

The OP needs to keep an even temper and be firm on his point but he also needs to remain open to what his roommate says and willing to consider that maybe this person he’s living with doesn’t even realize how rude he’s being.

If you use inflammatory statements when discussing a problem of this nature, it gives the person who’s in the wrong an idea of what bothers you, a feeling of being attacked, and a motive for becoming even worse.

Bottom line: This conflict will be decided not by pithy ultimatums but by open and honest communication.

Confrontational? By telling a 29 year old MAN not to eat food that doesn’t belong to him?



An inflammatory statement would be more like, “Hey, #(@($&, keep your bloody mitts off my FOOD!”

 

[kmuestwin]

I deal with these kinds of conflicts every day. It’s my job and I’m good at it.

You could solve the problem by having a serious meeting with the three roommates and really handle the issue and come to a written agreement or you can be rude and start arguments that only frustrate everyone involved.

 

[EasterJoy]

I deal with these kinds of conflicts every day. It’s my job and I’m good at it.

You could solve the problem by having a serious meeting with the three roommates and really handle the issue and come to a written agreement or you can be rude and start arguments that only frustrate everyone involved.

You truly turn slobs going on 30 years old into respectful roommates who clean up after themselves every day? If that is true, I am surprised you have not been on the evening news. Or Dr. Phil. Somebody needs to get your secret out, because the world needs that.

If you mean that you run meetings where people agree on rules without getting into fights, that I’ll believe. I’d believe that these protocols tend to work very well thereafter. The problem is that it is fairly rare for a new protocol to get the dishes done and the carpets vacuumed. Old habits die hard.

 

[kmuestwin]

I handle roommate disputes and deal with issues of cleanliness and theft everyday.

I work as an RA on a college campus and I also work in the hoisin office where these issues are reported on constantly. I’ve taken a course on this and I really do deal with this situation all the time.

I do not wave a magic wand and make somebody turn into a more respectful and more reasonable adult. That’s an internal process that I have no control over but I do know the steps that must be taken for two people to resolve an issue like this.

If you want someone to act more respectful, the last thing you should do is move to their level and disrespect them in turn. A person like this doesn’t mind diesrespect and will happily ignore whatever is said because that mindset won’t be changed by a rude attitude.

Having someone yell “clean this up!” or “take out the trash you slob!” isn’t going to solve anything because that’s what he’s been hearing for probably his entire life.

To solve this, the 29 year old needs to be spoken to like a 29 year old and not lectured like a child.

Finally, EasterJoy I can see by the way that you’ve responded to me that your first weapon when confronted is sarcasm. Sarcasm is great but it doesn’t lead to a healthy dialog and it doesn’t allow people to have an open discussion if the OP chooses the sarcastic approach, that’s all he’s going to get in return and he will remain frustrated and miserable. For him to solve this he’s going to have to look past whatever insult an frustration he may feel and talk to his roommate like he would prefer to be spoken to.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I handle roommate disputes and deal with issues of cleanliness and theft everyday.

I work as an RA on a college campus and I also work in the hoisin office where these issues are reported on constantly. I’ve taken a course on this and I really do deal with this situation all the time.

I do not wave a magic wand and make somebody turn into a more respectful and more reasonable adult. That’s an internal process that I have no control over but I do know the steps that must be taken for two people to resolve an issue like this.

If you want someone to act more respectful, the last thing you should do is move to their level and disrespect them in turn. A person like this doesn’t mind diesrespect and will happily ignore whatever is said because that mindset won’t be changed by a rude attitude.

Having someone yell “clean this up!” or “take out the trash you slob!” isn’t going to solve anything because that’s what he’s been hearing for probably his entire life.

To solve this, the 29 year old needs to be spoken to like a 29 year old and not lectured like a child.

Finally, EasterJoy I can see by the way that you’ve responded to me that your first weapon when confronted is sarcasm. Sarcasm is great but it doesn’t lead to a healthy dialog and it doesn’t allow people to have an open discussion if the OP chooses the sarcastic approach, that’s all he’s going to get in return and he will remain frustrated and miserable. For him to solve this he’s going to have to look past whatever insult an frustration he may feel and talk to his roommate like he would prefer to be spoken to.

You don’t know much about this forum if you think EasterJoy’s first approach is sarcasm. She’s one of our most sensible posters on a variety of issues and has her head on straight, and gives a LOT of support to people in varying degrees of distress. In fact, she’s almost NEVER sarcastic but is very earnest and sincere.

Some of us are WAY older than you and have a lot more experience, even if you are an RA in a dorm. Renting an apartment with 3 working men living in a one-bedroom apartment is different from being college students in a dorm room.

My suspicion is that the nearly 30-year-old man is taking advantage of the 2 very much younger men, because he has a lot more years than they do and he probably knows they don’t want to confront him. It’s going to be one of the hardest things they have done thus far, in order to get him out of the apartment, but they are going to have to do it, or else he will continue to make them miserable until the lease runs out.

However, if the lease happens to be in HIS name, problem solved. Find another apartment and move out.

 

[Aggies08]

Have a conversation.

Give exact problems/expectations: “all food will now be labled; only eat yours. No dirty dishes anywhere but the dishwasher. Clothes should only be in your room or on your body, etc” If he’s the type that would bring this to court (eviction), make sure a list of rules are signed by all parties. Keep a journal of indiscretions thereafter.

Give a timeline for him to comply by. IE he has 2 weeks and you will discuss this again. If he’s managing himself properly, that’s fine. If he can’t keep things up to standards, he will need to look for new housing, and will be evicted on Feb 29 or whatever.

Look into your eviction laws, and make sure they are followed to a T.

Charity is in giving him notice of the problems, the consequences, and time to look for a new place He knows if he can clean up or not- don’t take a “but I was cleaning!” when you’ve outlined the issues and he’s not following through…

He is 29; I really don’t forsee his changing his habits.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Have a conversation.

Give exact problems/expectations: “all food will now be labled; only eat yours. No dirty dishes anywhere but the dishwasher. **Clothes should only be in your room or on your body, etc”
**
Give a timeline for him to comply by. IE he has 2 weeks and you will discuss this again. If he’s managing himself properly, that’s fine. If he can’t keep things up to standards, he will need to look for new housing, and will be evicted on Feb 29 or whatever.

Look into your eviction laws, and make sure they are followed to a T.

Charity is in giving him notice of the problems, the consequences, and time to look for a new place He knows if he can clean up or not- don’t take a “but I was cleaning!” when you’ve outlined the issues and he’s not following through…

He is 29; I really don’t forsee his changing his habits.

Good message, but they all live in a one bedroom apartment. I suspect that the food and kitchen mess issues would still be present if they were in a 3 bedroom apartment, but at least they wouldn’t have to deal with his clothing, etc.

I’m thinking they might be living in an oil boom area - might explain the lack of housing.

 

[Aggies08]

opps, missed the one bedroom part. That would be hard!

Clothes in the dirty clothes or folded/hung up- you and the other roomate get together, write down the problems/what you would find acceptable solutions to be, and get together with him on it. It may be more successful to change a few things with his (name removed by moderator)ut- he’s not being dictated at- but you guys need to come to a set of standards you can live with.

 

[EasterJoy]

I handle roommate disputes and deal with issues of cleanliness and theft everyday.

I work as an RA on a college campus and I also work in the hoisin office where these issues are reported on constantly. I’ve taken a course on this and I really do deal with this situation all the time.

I do not wave a magic wand and make somebody turn into a more respectful and more reasonable adult. That’s an internal process that I have no control over but I do know the steps that must be taken for two people to resolve an issue like this.

If you want someone to act more respectful, the last thing you should do is move to their level and disrespect them in turn. A person like this doesn’t mind diesrespect and will happily ignore whatever is said because that mindset won’t be changed by a rude attitude.

Having someone yell “clean this up!” or “take out the trash you slob!” isn’t going to solve anything because that’s what he’s been hearing for probably his entire life.

To solve this, the 29 year old needs to be spoken to like a 29 year old and not lectured like a child.

Finally, EasterJoy I can see by the way that you’ve responded to me that your first weapon when confronted is sarcasm. Sarcasm is great but it doesn’t lead to a healthy dialog and it doesn’t allow people to have an open discussion if the OP chooses the sarcastic approach, that’s all he’s going to get in return and he will remain frustrated and miserable. For him to solve this he’s going to have to look past whatever insult an frustration he may feel and talk to his roommate like he would prefer to be spoken to.

I’m sorry if I was too flippant for you, that is a fair criticism, but “sarcasm is great” is really in itself kind of a sarcastic comment, don’t you think? You’ve read the whole post–the OP has talked to his roommate about this. “I am not your maid” is very blunt, but it is not sarcastic. Still, your point is well-taken. My concern is that it is hard to convince a frog that his living standards are too wet.

In addition to spending more years in college and graduate school than I care to admit, I’ve had a great deal of experience with people who still have roommates and still don’t clean up after themselves at the age of 29. They are tough nuts to crack, let us just say that. While in college, more of the population of “problem children” (although not all) are still in the category where they don’t know better. By 29, though, they have usually gotten a lot of feedback, both civilized and not so much. They get it at home, they get it at work, they get it from people who carpool with them. So while on the whole I am a great fan of your approach, I have very little hope that erring on the side of diplomacy is going to get through to this guy. I think he’s probably just someone who is not much bothered by work left undone.

If my clueless roommate were 24, I’d go to the people at campus housing for help, and have good hope that they could help me out. He might remember clean living and just not realize how it is accomplished. Unless he had moved out from his parent’s house in the last 24 months, though, or unless his self-identified New Year’s resolution was to learn how to keep his home like the clean people he admires, if I were dealing with a 29 year old, I’d just find a new roommate. Some people like the challenge of housetraining full-grown “outdoor dogs,” but I am not one of them. I say let the outdoor dog be happy living outside, and find a housebroken dog or a puppy to live inside, instead. Life is too short.

This is especially true with a smoker. If he wanted to quit, great, but otherwise it is going to be better to let him find another smoker to live with, someone who does not expect to find the kitchen clean and who is happy with the household motto of “what’s mine is mine and what’s yours is mine, too”. When it gets too deep, they can pool resources and call a cleaning service. These people do exist, and they do live together more or less in peace. I say: Let them do so! Sometimes tolerance comes down to that.

PS Honestly, though, if you actually do know how to rehabilitate roommate problems as deeply rooted as this example, you’d give the FlyLady a run for her money. As you know, the OP describes a very widespread problem, and Dr. Phil (I am not joking!! Honest!!) would be more than happy to have you as a guest.

 

[JeraldW]

Wow, thanks for all the charitable advice!

My buddy caught him smoking in the apartment once more this afternoon.

I finally put my foot down. I had told him four times not to smoke in the apartment.
My rules are my rules. I have the lease in my name, I pay all the utilities, and do about 80-90% of the cleaning. Time to man up.

I gave him one week to find a new place to live…

He was silent and said he didnt want to talk about it. No discussion, didnt even rebut me or confront. Wow

 

[EasterJoy]

Wow, thanks for all the charitable advice!

My buddy caught him smoking in the apartment once more this afternoon.

I finally put my foot down. I had told him four times not to smoke in the apartment.
My rules are my rules. I have the lease in my name, I pay all the utilities, and do about 80-90% of the cleaning. Time to man up.

I gave him one week to find a new place to live…

He was silent and said he didnt want to talk about it. No discussion, didnt even rebut me or confront. Wow

He may have been wishing for conditions more amenable to his smoking and with less nagging about his ingrained habits, but didn’t know how to get out of his situation. If he’s angry with you, though, well, that is the way it goes. It is a chance you take when you choose up roommates.

Still, let him know that you wish him well and hope he finds a situation where his rules of living and his roommates’ are more of a happy match…much better than him re-making you or you trying to re-make him! That is the best way to look at it.