Methodist considering Catholicism

[isaacalsop]

This is so true! I think it is a sign of spiritual maturity to understand this. It is why triumphalism is a less beautiful way of understanding God and religion.

If all the most loving, spiritual, insightful people left all the other faiths to become (Methodist, Baptist, Muslim, Buddhist, Baha’i, Catholic, Jewish, etc.) it would leave darkness behind in those other faiths as a spiritual “brain drain” sucked the life out of them.

God loves all of His children. God loves diversity in thought, practice, belief, culture and appearance.

The belief that everyone should think and believe the way I do, and that is the only acceptable belief before God - it’s simply not as beautiful as a universalist world where God appears before and within every soul and congregation who loves Him!

Beautifully said and very true. I believe that not all religions are equally close to God, but God loves each and evrery one the same. Well said! I also believe that all salvation comes through Christ, but you may be saved by Christ without even admitting or proclaiming it.

 

[isaacalsop]

Did you know that you are already spiritually a member of the Catholic Church? You were baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, right? Thats the Church’s first initiation right, so any protestant baptized like this is spiritually a member of this Church.

 

[PietroPaolo]

I’m not sure I’d go as far as saying all validly baptized Christians are “spiritually” part of the Catholic Church. The Church doesn’t go that far. In Lumen Gentium, she teaches that…

The Church recognizes that in many ways she is **linked **with those who, being baptized, are honored with the name of Christian, though they do not profess the faith in its entirety or do not preserve unity of communion with the successor of Peter. …Likewise we can say that in some real way they are joined with us in the Holy Spirit, for to them too He gives His gifts and graces whereby He is operative among them with His sanctifying power… (16).

 

[isaacalsop]

I’m not sure I’d go as far as saying all validly baptized Christians are “spiritually” part of the Catholic Church. The Church doesn’t go that far. In Lumen Gentium, she teaches that…

The Church recognizes that in many ways she is **linked **with those who, being baptized, are honored with the name of Christian, though they do not profess the faith in its entirety or do not preserve unity of communion with the successor of Peter. …Likewise we can say that in some real way they are joined with us in the Holy Spirit, for to them too He gives His gifts and graces whereby He is operative among them with His sanctifying power… (16).

Interesting. Ok my mistake. Still they(protestants) are more linked than they think.

 

[PietroPaolo]

He was telling me about a woman (Methodist BTW) who was inquiring about Catholicism. In advising her during this, my pastor told her, well maybe God doesnt want you to be Catholic. Maybe He wants you to be a better and more faithful Methodist!
:

Sorry, but does your pastor really believe that God calls people to believe false things? God is the Truth, not the father of lies. He is not the sower of discord, but the bringer of unity. It sounds “nice” to say that God might call some people to just be better Protestants, but it isn’t true. Jesus prayed that all of His followers might be ONE. He established ONE Church, in which all Christians are meant to seek salvation (in fact all the saved are saved through the agency of the Catholic Church).

In other words, IF Catholicism is true, then God is calling NO ONE to be a better Methodist, instead of a Catholic. IF Catholicism is false, then God is calling NO ONE to be a Catholic. It is really that simple.

As for your pastor, you might pray for him. Jesus didn’t have very “nice” words for people who lead His children astray, especially those He has put in authority. Something about millstones and necks comes to mind.

 

[Marie5890]

Sorry, but does your pastor really believe that God calls people to believe false things? God is the Truth, not the father of lies. He is not the sower of discord, but the bringer of unity. It sounds “nice” to say that God might call some people to just be better Protestants, but it isn’t true. Jesus prayed that all of His followers might be ONE. He established ONE Church, in which all Christians are meant to seek salvation (in fact all the saved are saved through the agency of the Catholic Church).

In other words, IF Catholicism is true, then God is calling NO ONE to be a better Methodist, instead of a Catholic. IF Catholicism is false, then God is calling NO ONE to be a Catholic. It is really that simple.

As for your pastor, you might pray for him. Jesus didn’t have very “nice” words for people who lead His children astray, especially those He has put in authority. Something about millstones and necks comes to mind.

One of the most Christ-like men I know, my pastor.

I’ll let God judge the rest.

 

[sariejack]

Thanks everyone who was responded. This forum is so welcoming. I really appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut.

I think the next step is to seek out RCIA classes in the parish close to my home, so I’ll call them to see when classes are held. I think you’re right–taking RCIA classes will help me determine how I am being called.

I will say that I have never found the profound peace I experienced at Mass in my Methodist church. That’s not to say anything bad about Methodism, only to point out how I am feeling and why I am starting this journey.

 

[Sirach2]

Isaacalsop:

PietroPaolo:

I’m not sure I’d go as far as saying all validly baptized Christians are “spiritually” part of the Catholic Church. The Church doesn’t go that far. In Lumen Gentium

, she teaches that…

The Church recognizes that in many ways she is **linked **with those who, being baptized, are honored with the name of Christian, though they do not profess the faith in its entirety or do not preserve unity of communion with the successor of Peter. …Likewise we can say that in some real way they are joined with us in the Holy Spirit, for to them too He gives His gifts and graces whereby He is operative among them with His sanctifying power… (16).

Interesting. Ok my mistake. Still they (protestants) are more linked than they think.

I’m not so sure it is a mistake. The Church also teaches in this document:

1. For men who believe in Christ and have been truly baptized are in communion with the Catholic Church even though this communion is imperfect. The differences that exist in varying degrees between them and the Catholic Church - whether in doctrine and sometimes in discipline, or concerning the structure of the Church - do indeed create many obstacles, sometimes serious ones, to full ecclesiastical communion. The ecumenical movement is striving to overcome these obstacles.

But even in spite of them it remains true that all who have been justified by faith in Baptism are members of Christ’s body, and have a right to be called Christian, and so are correctly accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church.

 

[Marie5890]

I’m not so sure it is a mistake. The Church also teaches in this document:

1. For men who believe in Christ and have been truly baptized are in communion with the Catholic Church even though this communion is imperfect. The differences that exist in varying degrees between them and the Catholic Church - whether in doctrine and sometimes in discipline, or concerning the structure of the Church - do indeed create many obstacles, sometimes serious ones, to full ecclesiastical communion. The ecumenical movement is striving to overcome these obstacles.

But even in spite of them it remains true that all who have been justified by faith in Baptism are members of Christ’s body, and have a right to be called Christian, and so are correctly accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church.

Thanks for that.

 

[PietroPaolo]

I’m not so sure it is a mistake. The Church also teaches in this document:

1. For men who believe in Christ and have been truly baptized are in communion with the Catholic Church even though this communion is imperfect. The differences that exist in varying degrees between them and the Catholic Church - whether in doctrine and sometimes in discipline, or concerning the structure of the Church - do indeed create many obstacles, sometimes serious ones, to full ecclesiastical communion. The ecumenical movement is striving to overcome these obstacles.

But even in spite of them it remains true that all who have been justified by faith in Baptism are members of Christ’s body, and have a right to be called Christian, and so are correctly accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church.

Exactly how does what you posted contradict Lumen Gentium? Where, in what you posted, does it say all the validly baptized are “spiritually” apart of the Church? Imperfect communion of some sort is all either document suggests.

 

[PietroPaolo]

One of the most Christ-like men I know, my pastor.

I’ll let God judge the rest.

 

[Sirach2]

…all who have been justified by faith in Baptism are members of Christ’s body.

Membership in the Church is not visible, as you know, but “spiritual.” Therefore, there is no need to use your wording in order to make the teaching more clear. It is clear in itself, and is the very reason so many traditionalists oppose the teaching, since they reject ecumenism.

Try reading John 14:21 and tell me that Jesus only meant Catholics. “HE that…” If a baptized person sincerely loves Christ and keeps His commandments according to his conscience, yes, they are part of His Mystical Body. And where Jesus is, there is also the Father and the Spirit.

This does not mean we have no need to evangelize and strive to bring them perfectly into the fold.

 

[kozlosap]

Exactly how does what you posted contradict Lumen Gentium? Where, in what you posted, does it say all the validly baptized are “spiritually” apart of the Church? Imperfect communion of some sort is all either document suggests.

Are you actively trying to run this very devoted and spiritual person who is joining the Church away from these forums? The comment that the priest made is perfectly acceptable and even sounds like something that Papa Francis might say.

Sariejack- Welcome to these forums! There are many wonderful and compassionate people who answer very difficult theological questions on CAF. As you will find in all areas of discourse, there are also those who consider themselves more Catholic than the Pope! You will learn how to speed read through those posts that are only concerned with rules and dogma and cherish those written with true understanding and in the direction of the Gospels.
I will pray that you find the grace and closeness to our Lord that the RCC provides those who reach out and embrace it.

 

[PietroPaolo]

Here:
…all who have been justified by faith in Baptism are members of Christ’s body.

Membership in the Church is not visible, as you know, but “spiritual.” Therefore, there is no need to use your wording in order to make the teaching more clear. It is clear in itself, and is the very reason so many traditionalists oppose the teaching, since they reject ecumenism.

Try reading John 14:21 and tell me that Jesus only meant Catholics. “HE that…” If a baptized person sincerely loves Christ and keeps His commandments according to his conscience, yes, they are part of His Mystical Body. And where Jesus is, there is also the Father and the Spirit.

This does not mean we have no need to evangelize and strive to bring them perfectly into the fold.

Your prooftexting of John is as ridiculous as saying that Jn 3:16 means we are saved ny faith alone and doesn’t say anything about all the baptized being perfectly a part of the Mystical Body of Christ, which is the Catholic Church. The teaching of the Church is clearly laid out by Vatican Two. Validly baptized Protestants are imperfectly united to the Body of Christ, i.e. the Catholic Church. The clear teaching of the Church is unfortunately danced around by some who embrace the heresy of indifferentism instead of heading the Church’s call for an authentic ecumenism.

 

[PietroPaolo]

Are you actively trying to run this very devoted and spiritual person who is joining the Church away from these forums? The comment that the priest made is perfectly acceptable and even sounds like something that Papa Francis might say.

Sariejack- Welcome to these forums! There are many wonderful and compassionate people who answer very difficult theological questions on CAF. As you will find in all areas of discourse, there are also those who consider themselves more Catholic than the Pope! You will learn how to speed read through those posts that are only concerned with rules and dogma and cherish those written with true understanding and in the direction of the Gospels.
I will pray that you find the grace and closeness to our Lord that the RCC provides those who reach out and embrace it.

The comment that God might be calling some people to NOT join the Church He founded, the Church where all seven sacraments can be found, the Church, outside of which there is no salvation, is “perfectly acceptable?” Really?

Sadly, some Catholics confuse “niceness” with preaching the gospel.

 

[isaacalsop]

The comment that God might be calling some people to NOT join the Church He founded, the Church where all seven sacraments can be found, the Church, outside of which there is no salvation, is “perfectly acceptable?” Really?

Sadly, some Catholics confuse “niceness” with preaching the gospel.

Find me ONE single document that says there is NO salvation outside the Church. I agree that all salvation coems through the Church but Protestants and other groups can be saved…give me a single document that supposes such a ridiculous thing as no salvation if you are not Catholic.

 

[PietroPaolo]

Find me ONE single document that says there is NO salvation outside the Church. I agree that all salvation coems through the Church but Protestants and other groups can be saved…give me a single document that supposes such a ridiculous thing as no salvation if you are not Catholic.

Don’t put words into my mouth, I never said all non-Catholics are damned. Extra ecclesiam nulla salus (no salvation outside the Church) had been standard Catholic teaching since the Fathers. It is even mentioned in the CCC at paragraph 846. That doesn’t mean all non-Catholics are damned. The Church has, for centuries, recognized the possibility of salvation of those who find themselves outside the visible bounds of the Church through no fault of their own (i.e. “invincible ignorance”). Even these, however are only saved through the Catholic Church. No one is saved by Methodism, Anglicanism, etc. Just as no one is saved by Islam or Hinduism. All are saved through Jesus and His Mystical Body (which is the Catholic Church). For more, I recommend reading IS THE CATHOLIC CHURCH NECESSARY FOR SALVATION?.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

Hey guys, could you focus on the OP and her question and move your theological discussion to a new thread where it would be on topic. Thanks.

 

[JM3]

I think the next step is to seek out RCIA classes in the parish close to my home,

In case it takes a while for RCIA to start, here’s the Catechism (CCC) and the Compendium that you can look over.

vatican.va/archive/ccc/index.htm

The Compendium has questions and answers based on the Catechism (the numbers represent the Catechism paragraphs).

1. How are non-Catholic Christians to be considered?

817-819
870

In the churches and ecclesial communities which are separated from full communion with the Catholic Church, many elements of sanctification and truth can be found. All of these blessings come from Christ and lead to Catholic unity. Members of these churches and communities are incorporated into Christ by Baptism and so we recognize them as brothers.

 

[Contarini]

That you’ve been so careful about your decision (fourth RCIA!) is fascinating. You seem to have a deep thirst for truth…

Also I’m ADD and very indecisive. . . .

And as my advisor said, “It’s hard for historians to convert to anything, because we know where all the bodies are buried.” I was silly enough to choose to study the Reformation in grad school in order to figure out where I stood–as a result every book or article I read threw me into a tizzy one way or the other. It was torment.

Edwin