You refer to Trent which was 500 years ago. Why do you not reference the dialogue over the past 50 years? Is it inconsistent with your mindset?Hmmmm…please show me your backup for this claim. Remember that validity is a lot more than Apostolic succession.
And BTW…validity is not the only obstacle. Trent outlines a few more…but we will not go there for sake of being ecumenical.
Not to discount your question, but I’d like to point out that in my experience, the complaint often goes in just the opposite direction. I.e. a Catholic will cite recent ecumenical efforts, and the response will point out a statement from Trent (or Florence, Vatican I, etc) that poses a difficulty.
Not at all…what was truth 500 years ago is truth today. Truth does not change.
The Catholic-Lutheran Dialogue/ Accords and Justification Declaration are also true; two truths.
Which cannot conflict, otherwise they cannot both be true. Nothing from Trent has changed.
In all seriousness, it gives me great comfort to know that the RCC will never compromise on truth. The RCC will never call something morally evil the one day, and later because of enlightenment find that evil acceptable. The RCC will always proclaim what is true. This is why I love the RCC. It is the rock of truth!
Amen to that!
For Methodist and other Protestants who believe it is only a spiritual communion and not the real presents of Jesus Christ is a good things because at least they are not lying to themselves, because for them, it is just that, a symbolic interpretation, when they receiveI also came from the Methodist church. The answer to your question is - no they do not believe in the real presence. My understanding and experience is the Methodist belief is that Jesus is spiritually present and essentially it is symbolic since it is not real to them.
But like many protestant denominations, I’m sure you could get a difference of opinions if you went from say United Methodist to Methodist or to a Southern Methodist church!
At the most they receive a Spiritual CommunionLutherans reserve the holy Sacrament in tabernacles in some parishes but most Lutheran churches consume all the elements during Mass or take the holy Communion to the sick/ shut-ins right after Mass.
What exactly do you mean by that? The Eastern Churches believe in the Real Presence and reserve the Sacrament in a tabernacle, and reverence it when they come into close proximity, but they have not developed the same cultus of the Eucharistic species outside the Mass as has developed in the Roman Church. They do not, for example, have Corpus Christi processions or Exposition and Benediction.
I wasn’t referring so much to Corpus Christi processions etc. I was referring to venerating the Blessed Sacrament outside of Mass.
I have a serious question that follows you’re logic.
How does your question “logically” follow this post?
I think I know where you are trying to take this and I would caution you that you are very close to being very offensive.
I guess my reply to this is a little different than Novocastrian’s. I could easily figure out what you meant by “adore the Blessed Sacrament outside of the Eucharist service”, but not why that would be a “crunch point”. I would have called it a “legitimate development”.
This seems like a non sequitur to me, so please explain how one is related to the other. While Lutherans generally do not practice Eucharistic adoration outside the sacramental act, we do not believe that His presence is dependent on the faith of either the celebrant or the communicant. If it were, then Paul’s admonition in Corinthians would be hollow.
I give thanks that the Spirit moved you in this way.
I’m sorry, I should have made it clear that I was talking of the UK context. I don’t think there are any Lutheran churches in the UK. Their place would be taken by the Church of England, I’d imagine, where reservation is not always practised. It wasn’t/isn’t automatic that a Tabernacle would be seen in an Anglican church, unlike in a (Roman) Catholic one.
I am told that it was Reginald Cardinal Pole, last Archbishop of Canterbury in communion with Rome, who made the use of tabernacles on the altar widespread in the Roman communion. There are one or two Lutheran churches in the UK, but they tend to be in coastal cities and were traditionally associated with visiting seamen from Germany and Scandinavia. I think the Lutheran church in my city is still German-language.