Methodists elect 1st openly gay bishop in defiance of ban

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SCOTTSDALE, Arizona (AP) – The Western district of the Methodist church has elected an openly gay bishop despite the denomination’s ban on same-sex relationships.

The Rev. Karen Oliveto was elected late Friday night at a meeting in Scottsdale, Arizona, of the church’s Western Jurisdiction. Oliveto is pastor of Glide Memorial United Methodist Church in San Francisco. She is the first openly gay bishop in the 12.7 million-member denomination.

The United Methodist Church is deeply divided over LGBT rights. Church law says same-gender relationships are “incompatible with Christian teaching.” But several regional districts are openly defying the prohibition by appointing gay clergy and allowing same-sex weddings in churches. Some instances have led to trials under the church legal system.

Oliveto’s election could draw complaints that will prompt a review under church law.

hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_REL_METHODISTS_GAY_BISHOP?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2016-07-16-09-14-48
 
John 12:43 …for they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.
 
What a shame. Seems the majority of people of late want to jump on the gay bandwagon. It’s even sadder when it’s a religious denomination.
 
Randy_Carson said:
SCOTTSDALE, Arizona (AP) – The Western district of the Methodist church has elected an openly gay bishop despite the denomination’s ban on same-sex relationships.

The Rev. Karen Oliveto was elected late Friday night at a meeting in Scottsdale, Arizona, of the church’s Western Jurisdiction. Oliveto is pastor of Glide Memorial United Methodist Church in San Francisco. She is the first openly gay bishop in the 12.7 million-member denomination.

The United Methodist Church is deeply divided over LGBT rights. Church law says same-gender relationships are “incompatible with Christian teaching.” But several regional districts are openly defying the prohibition by appointing gay clergy and allowing same-sex weddings in churches. Some instances have led to trials under the church legal system.

Oliveto’s election could draw complaints that will prompt a review under church law.

hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_REL_METHODISTS_GAY_BISHOP?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2016-07-16-09-14-48
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Is such defiance considered heretical within Methodist tradition, or is the issue considered one of prudential judgment?
 
meltzerboy said:
Is such defiance considered heretical within Methodist tradition, or is the issue considered one of prudential judgment?
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Having been a Methodist for 10 years I can tell you for a fact there is no real only an honorary authority. The difference in beliefs even between clergy is vast and confusing with many of them avoiding or refusing to tell anyone they are wrong.

I thank God for the Catholic Church and the Church’s authority.
 
meltzerboy said:
Is such defiance considered heretical within Methodist tradition, or is the issue considered one of prudential judgment?
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The evangelical wing of the United Methodist Church certainly agrees with its Book of Discipline that the practice of homosexuality is “incompatible with Christian teaching” and that “self-avowed practicing homosexuals” cannot be ordained as ministers. In theory, anyone who violates the Book of Discipline should be brought up before a church court. As it stands, in theory, the Rev. Karen Oliveto is not eligible to be an ordained UMC elder let alone a bishop by virtue of her being an openly practicing lesbian.

The problem is that, while the Methodist Church has an abundance of “hierarchy,” power within the denomination is diffused and spread out among a multitude of bishops, conferences, ecclesiastical courts, boards, agencies, and commissions. All of these are heavily biased in favor of what many would characterize as the liberal minority within the Methodist Church.

The UMC is divided into a number of regional “Jurisdictions” (think ecclesiastical provinces of multiple dioceses) and smaller annual conferences (think dioceses). The Western Jurisdiction (in which Oliveto has been elected) is predominantly liberal. Many of its annual conferences have passed resolutions stating they will no longer comply with church law concerning restrictions on homosexual behavior within the church. The Western Jurisdiction can be relied on to actively protect Oliveto from being removed.

However, the UMC does have a “supreme court” known as the Judicial Council, which has final authority to interpret UMC church law. Evangelical Methodists are already moving to see that this does not go unchallenged. The South Central Jurisdiction (an entity dominated by Methodists in Texas) has already asked the Judicial Council to issue a declaratory decision on same-sex church leaders to force the Western Jurisdiction to fall in line with church law.

The simple answer is that, particularly in the case of ordained ministers and church officials in the UMC, no this is not a matter of prudential judgement but a matter of church law and, more importantly, Scriptural truth. Yet, its also true that the liberal wing of the UMC seems to have opted for mass “civil disobedience” and “nullification” of church law. It remains to be seen whether the UMC is willing to defend its own rules or if this leads to a schism within the denomination.
 
WT1 said:
Having been a Methodist for 10 years I can tell you for a fact there is no real only an honorary authority. The difference in beliefs even between clergy is vast and confusing with many of them avoiding or refusing to tell anyone they are wrong.

I thank God for the Catholic Church and the Church’s authority.
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Authority has never ensured a unity of beliefs.
 
meltzerboy said:
True, people may disagree with positions held by authority. However, Church authority does spell out official teaching in the matter of morals and values, which may sometimes be rather complicated.
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No Christian, Protestant, Methodist, Presbyterian or Catholic , or liberal or conservative, or even atheists can read the Bible and find anything other than God’s disapproval for homosexual unions.
 
alwayswill said:
Authority has never ensured a unity of beliefs.
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Yes it does. The beliefs are unified, the believers, not necessarily.

Having a single, fixed landmark lighthouse does not ensure everyone will heed it. They may or may not. But the lighthouse itself offers a unity of beliefs. Within Protestantism, many groups chart their current position by relation to that lighthouse. Even if they are going somewhere else, the fixed lighthouse helps them chart their own position.

We live in a sea of floating landmarks, where each “orthodoxy” is self defined, where people choose their truths and morality so as to avoid conversion, so they can be accepted by the secular culture. The Magisterium varies a lot in popularity, but not in unity of beliefs.
 
commenter said:
Yes it does. The beliefs are unified, the believers, not necessarily.

Having a single, fixed landmark lighthouse does not ensure everyone will heed it. They may or may not. But the lighthouse itself offers a unity of beliefs. Within Protestantism, many groups chart their current position by relation to that lighthouse. Even if they are going somewhere else, the fixed lighthouse helps them chart their own position.

We live in a sea of floating lighthouses, where each “orthodoxy” is self defined, where people choose their truths and morality so as to avoid conversion, so they can be accepted by the secular culture. The Magisterium varies a lot in popularity, but not in unity of beliefs.
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The highest authority (lighthouse) for Sola Scriptura practicing Christians is …Scripture…

Is it your (or the Catholic) view that Scriptures (writings breathed out by God/ theopneustos) hold a disunity of beliefs?
 
alwayswill said:
No Christian, Protestant, Methodist, Presbyterian or Catholic , or liberal or conservative, or even atheists can read the Bible and find anything other than God’s disapproval for homosexual unions.
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People have a remarkable capacity to for seeing what they want to see. And if what they want to see is a homosexually-approving Bible, that’s what they’ll see. It’s amazing what you can find simply by divorcing yourself from the tradition of the Church.

I mean, did anyone realize that St. Paul was actually talking about heterosexuals engaging in homosexual acts and therefore going against their nature? Never mind that you won’t find that interpretation in the writings of a single Church Father, scholastic, council, Pope, Doctor, Protestant “reformer,” Enlightenment-era anticlerical “rationalist,” or really any Christian, non-Christian or anti-Christian handling of the Scriptures prior to, say, 1960.
 
ChaosGamma said:
People have a remarkable capacity to for seeing what they want to see. And if what they want to see is a homosexually-approving Bible, that’s what they’ll see. It’s amazing what you can find simply by divorcing yourself from the tradition of the Church.

I mean, did anyone realize that St. Paul was actually talking about heterosexuals engaging in homosexual acts and therefore going against their nature? Never mind that you won’t find that interpretation in the writings of a single Church Father, scholastic, council, Pope, Doctor, Protestant “reformer,” Enlightenment-era anticlerical “rationalist,” or really any Christian, non-Christian or anti-Christian handling of the Scriptures prior to, say, 1960.
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"Early Teachings on Homosexuality"
catholic.com/tracts/early-teachings-on-homosexuality
 
ChaosGamma said:
People have a remarkable capacity to for seeing what they want to see. And if what they want to see is a homosexually-approving Bible, that’s what they’ll see. It’s amazing what you can find simply by divorcing yourself from the tradition of the Church.

I mean, did anyone realize that St. Paul was actually talking about heterosexuals engaging in homosexual acts and therefore going against their nature? Never mind that you won’t find that interpretation in the writings of a single Church Father, scholastic, council, Pope, Doctor, Protestant “reformer,” Enlightenment-era anticlerical “rationalist,” or really any Christian, non-Christian or anti-Christian handling of the Scriptures prior to, say, 1960.
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Yes, I agree that people do have a remarkable capacity for seeing what they want to see. Catholics are quite good at ignoring all of the slavery, polygamy, and patriarchy that is sanctioned in the Bible and Church history and scholarship.
 
 
could almighty God be using this issue to unite christianity?

Jesus taught us that only the pure of heart can see God. those who encourage people to serve their lusts before they serve the Lord are not members of the Lord’s Mystical Body.
 
StJoseph8 said:
No ignoring here:

osv.com/Magazines/TheCatholicAnswer/Article/TabId/652/ArtMID/13618/ArticleID/13156/Polygamy-in-the-Bible.aspx

cuf.org/2013/07/who-wrote-the-book-of-love-threes-a-crowd-the-bible-and-polygamy/

catholicnewsagency.com/resources/apologetics/controversies/slavery-and-the-catholic-church/

catholiceducation.org/en/controversy/common-misconceptions/let-my-people-go-the-catholic-church-and-slavery.html

ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/POPSLAVE.HTM

Homework = 👍
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On the contrary, I’m quite familiar with all of these pathetic attempts to justify, explain, misconstrue, and manipulate the facts. And they are all quite pathetic and without merit. Feeble attempts at best to try to portray the Church as the perfect institution so many Catholics worship. It’s a shame, they choose to worship the Church instead of God.
 
alwayswill said:
The highest authority (lighthouse) for Sola Scriptura practicing Christians is …Scripture…

Is it your (or the Catholic) view that Scriptures (writings breathed out by God/ theopneustos) hold a disunity of beliefs?
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Actually, the highest authority for SS practicing Christians is…the pastor. Or nowadays could be whichever author or media preacher they respect the most. Somebody determines which Bible passages are relevant to a given situation, what context shapes them, and how they should be interpreted. Scripture is not disunited. But under Sola Scriptura interpretations often differ, may contradict each other.

For many years, groups affirming “Sola Scriptura” in theory, really were, in practice, implicitly guided somewhat by the Magisterium. They took over the same NT canon, took for granted most of the same doctrinal formulations of the first few centuries, coinciding implicitly with one group labelled “Early Church Fathers”, and avoiding doctrines of this other group labelled “heretics”.

Evangelicals rejected those Bible quoting Christians who moved too far from the Magisterium (Mormons, JW’s, and a host of others), or in recent years, those who abandoned the Natural Law. There never really was total Sola Scriptura Christians, they always took for granted some template of orthodoxy. They were indirectly influenced by the lighthouse more than they realized.

Some Sola Scriptura Christians in recent decades have moved away from their (implicit) Magisterium guide. These are Mainline Protestants.

They used to be guided by (Scripture plus the Magisterium), they are now guided by (Scripture plus the secular culture). That led them to take positions such as the extreme liberal Methodists. Other Methodists are still guided by (Scripture - explicit) and (Magisterium - implicit). They cooperate with Catholics in opposing gay marriage.
 
alwayswill said:
The highest authority (lighthouse) for Sola Scriptura practicing Christians is …Scripture…

Is it your (or the Catholic) view that Scriptures (writings breathed out by God/ theopneustos) hold a disunity of beliefs?
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No but it breeds incorrect interpretation and that is why the Church’s teaching authority is do important to limit these issues as much as possible.

A priest can definitely be incorrect in his teaching, as priest are human and fallible, but the teaching magistrate of the Church is not.
 
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