Methodists elect 1st openly gay bishop in defiance of ban

  • Thread starter Thread starter Randy_Carson
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
On the contrary, I’m quite familiar with all of these pathetic attempts to justify, explain, misconstrue, and manipulate the facts. And they are all quite pathetic and without merit. Feeble attempts at best to try to portray the Church as the perfect institution so many Catholics worship. It’s a shame, they choose to worship the Church instead of God.
Wow, there was quite a bit in those links. You must be a fast reader! 😃

So you accuse Catholics of worshiping an Institution instead of God. I hope you meet a faithful, practicing Catholic in the very near future. It seems like you had a very bad experience with the Church. You will be in my prayers.

To comment on the original post, I don’t think it is ever a good idea to do something primarily out of revolt, but…🤷
 
No but it breeds incorrect interpretation and that is why the Church’s teaching authority is do important to limit these issues as much as possible.

A priest can definitely be incorrect in his teaching, as priest are human and fallible, but the teaching magistrate of the Church is not.
and the teachings of Scripture are also not fallible

Is this your view?

Catholics don’t believe XYZ: even though their authority (the Catholic Church) does teach XYZ
That’s just fallible humanity

Protestants don’t believe XYZ: even though their authority (the Scriptures) do teach XYZ
that’s anarchy.

Consider this:
**With Catholicism: you focus on the teachings of their authority : while ignoring the beliefs of the its members.

With Protestantism: you focus on the beliefs of its members; while ignoring the teachings of their authority**
 
As a Methodist, I am sometimes confused by what appears to be conflicting beliefs within the hierarchy of the leadership, depending where you are at. For example, out in the western regions of the US, there will be an openly gay bishop serving the region’s Methodists. It makes me concerned about the future of Methodism in the US, although world-wide it is strong and growing and is more traditional and conservative.

“A house divided against itself cannot stand” – Abraham Lincoln

On the other hand, where I live the leadership elected a more conservative bishop, according to our local pastoral staff. I am thankful for that.

newsok.com/article/5509941
 
Actually, the highest authority for SS practicing Christians is…the pastor. Or nowadays could be whichever author or media preacher they respect the most. Somebody determines which Bible passages are relevant to a given situation, what context shapes them, and how they should be interpreted. Scripture is not disunited. But under Sola Scriptura interpretations often differ, may contradict each other.

mispost PC error
 
And if you disagree with his viewpoint?
I have disagreed and corrected my pastor on a minor theological point.
We sat down and and I laid out my Biblical point and he agreed he was in error

But most of the times he corrects me through Scripture…

If you next question is: what do I do if we STILL don’t agree:
If it is a minor point : we agree to disagree:
If it is a major point (ie the nature of God or salvation) I would need to leave.

If I am really off base: then it should be hard for me to find any pastor who agreed with me.
And I would take that as a “warning” to me
 
And if you disagree with his viewpoint?
and now I ask you : what do you do if you disagree with your Priest, Bishop, and Cardinal?

And please don’t tell me that Bishops and Cardinals through out the world interpret Catholic teaching all the same way. The Catholic news forum is filled with examples wayward teaching Bishops.
 
and now I ask you : what do you do if you disagree with your Priest, Bishop, and Cardinal?

And please don’t tell me that Bishops and Cardinals through out the world interpret Catholic teaching all the same way. The Catholic news forum is filled with examples wayward teaching Bishops.
If there is confusion, I ask for clarification. But I find the teachings of the Magisterium of the Catholic Church clear. And if I disagree, I know that I am in the wrong. I conform my will to their teaching, for in Catholicism, Christ gave them the authority, promising to guide them. I have never had a bishop try to teach me anything that didn’t conform to what the Magisterium has taught. I know when the Catholic Church teaches, it has Divine Authority behind it.
 
I have disagreed and corrected my pastor on a minor theological point.
We sat down and and I laid out my Biblical point and he agreed he was in error

But most of the times he corrects me through Scripture…

If you next question is: what do I do if we STILL don’t agree:
If it is a minor point : we agree to disagree:
If it is a major point (ie the nature of God or salvation) I would need to leave.

If I am really off base: then it should be hard for me to find any pastor who agreed with me.
And I would take that as a “warning” to me
But what if you are off base, but not way off base? What then? What if you find many pastors who agree with you, and many who don’t? Who decides what is minor, and what is major?

You say Scripture teaches X, Y, and Z. But many pastors say it teaches X, Y, but not Z. All of them claim Scripture is their authority, yet they differ on multiple issues. You call it anarchy, but it is anarchy from your view of the bible.

Since from it’s very inception, the Bible has had to be interpreted, whomever you allow to interpret it for you, is in reality your highest authority. Which is why the theory has been put forth that sola scriptura, in reality is always ***solo *scriptura.
 
Consider this:
**With Catholicism: you focus on the teachings of their authority : while ignoring the beliefs of the its members.

With Protestantism: you focus on the beliefs of its members; while ignoring the teachings of their authority**
Catholicism - The authority of the Church keeps teaching consistent throughout the Church.

Protestants - Use the belief of the members to justify what they want to teach in the scriptures with no authority to validate it.
 
Is such defiance considered heretical within Methodist tradition, or is the issue considered one of prudential judgment?
I don’t know, MB, but here is the statement of Bishop Ough, the President of the UM Council of Bishops. In it he says the council does not have authority to intervene in the election. He states the matter is being monitored very closely however and there are processes in place for resolving issues even as complex and unprecedented as this election. That this is a place Methodists have not been before and there are those who will view this election as a violation of church law while others will celebrate the election as a milestone toward being a more inclusive church.

umc.org/news-and-media/cob-president-addresses-western-jurisdiction-episcopal-election-results
 
Wow, there was quite a bit in those links. You must be a fast reader! 😃

So you accuse Catholics of worshiping an Institution instead of God. I hope you meet a faithful, practicing Catholic in the very near future. It seems like you had a very bad experience with the Church. You will be in my prayers.

To comment on the original post, I don’t think it is ever a good idea to do something primarily out of revolt, but…🤷
I don’t need to read them. I know what they say. There’s nothing new there. Same old tired justifications that have been debunked countless times.
 
Catholicism - **The authority of the Church keeps teaching consistent throughout the Church.
**
Protestants - Use the belief of the members to justify what they want to teach in the scriptures with no authority to validate it.
If only that were true. Plenty of priests and even bishops are inconsistent in how they teach in relation to other portions of the Catholic church.
 
Originally Posted by WT1 View Post
Catholicism - The authority of the Church keeps teaching consistent throughout the Church.

Protestants - Use the belief of the members to justify what they want to teach in the scriptures with no authority to validate it.
If only that were true. Plenty of priests and even bishops are inconsistent in how they teach in relation to other portions of the Catholic church.
The difference between Catholics and Methodists is not so much the authority of the Church - both Catholics and Methodists exercise some doctrinal authority, Catholics a lot more than Methodists I think. The real difference is that Catholics claim to have a - the - teaching Magisterium, and Methodists don’t recognize the Catholic one, nor claim to have one of their own.

CC priests are not part of the Magisterium. Individual bishops, participate in the Magisterium only insofar as in communion with the pope and college of bishops.

Both communions rely on Scripture and Tradition.
 
Yes, I agree that people do have a remarkable capacity for seeing what they want to see. Catholics are quite good at ignoring all of the slavery, polygamy, and patriarchy that is sanctioned in the Bible and Church history and scholarship.
Patriarchy is a bad thing? News to me.
 
I don’t know, MB, but here is the statement of Bishop Ough, the President of the UM Council of Bishops. In it he says the council does not have authority to intervene in the election. He states the matter is being monitored very closely however and there are processes in place for resolving issues even as complex and unprecedented as this election. That this is a place Methodists have not been before and there are those who will view this election as a violation of church law while others will celebrate the election as a milestone toward being a more inclusive church.

umc.org/news-and-media/cob-president-addresses-western-jurisdiction-episcopal-election-results
It’s an interesting conundrum for the Methodists it seems based on their structure. It seems odd to me coming from a Catholic and Episcopal background, where bishops even if elected in the Episcopal Church case, must still be approved of and ordained by the church to take office, that the Methodist Church as a whole has no recourse to this election in violation of their current rules.
 
… that the Methodist Church as a whole has no recourse to this election in violation of their current rules.
Factually untrue

Google Methodists excommunication or Methodists defrocked or Methodist suspended
 
Factually untrue

Google Methodists excommunication or Methodists defrocked or Methodist suspended
The first didn’t produce anything definitive one way or the other. The other two however do appear to be options, specifically suspension. If you have any particular links though they’d be appreciated.
 
The first didn’t produce anything definitive one way or the other. The other two however do appear to be options, specifically suspension. If you have any particular links though they’d be appreciated.
Easy to find

the following were excommunication by the Methodist Church:
Vincenzo Di Francesca
John Van Zandt
Ellen G. White
Akuila Yabaki

Lesbian Minister Defrocked By United Methodist Church
washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/31/AR2005103100971.html

2 clergy face suspensions for performing same-sex weddings
umc.org/news-and-media/2-clergy-face-suspensions-for-performing-same-sex-weddings

Dallas Methodist minister suspended after officiating at same-sex wedding
dallasnews.com/news/community-news/park-cities/headlines/20140321-retired-pastor-suspended-after-performing-gay-wedding.ece

Your point
“that the Methodist Church as a whole has no recourse to this election in violation of their current rules.”
was factually wrong
 
If only that were true. Plenty of priests and even bishops are inconsistent in how they teach in relation to other portions of the Catholic church.
Doesn’t failure to consistently teach what an individual priest or bishop is supposed to, rest with the teacher, and not what is being taught? Because I know the Catholic Church’s teachings have remained consistent, while some of Her teachers have failed to teach, what they said they would.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top