Methodists

[Qwikness]

Its funny that this should come up. I was just looking the Methodists up recently. It seems like Methodism is a dialect if you will of Anglicanism. Both believing the same things in different ways. Which I am surprised about.

I’ve heard of something called the “Confessing Our Faith Together” in which the Anglicans and Methodist are to rejoin. I am really surprised by this and must be misunderstanding something. This may only be England.
telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/7216357/General-Synod-Methodists-likely-to-merge-with-Church-of-England.html

One question. Does the Methodists believe in consubstantiation? because I’m getting mixed messages on this. Wouldn’t they be required to in order to join the Anglicans?

 

[The_Old_Medic]

There are many different “Methodist” Churches, that denomination having split into many different factions over the years.

I grew up as a “Free Methodist”, my maternal grandfather being a Minister in that church for 55 years. They have a VERY strict intrepretation of salvation, being akin to other extremely fundamentalist and evangelical churches.

When I was a boy (in the 1940’s), you could only wear black, dark blue or dark gray clothing (a white shirt or blouse on Sunday), no jewelry of any type (not even a wedding ring), no dancing, no card playing, no drinking, no smoking, no immodest clothing (which meant floor length skirts and total coverage for women), total and complete obedience to ones parents, heavy emphasis on the wrath of God and punishment, absolutely no belief in the real presence (communion is only a memorial function), no wine (they believe that the Bible meant grape juice where it clearly says wine), etc. I heard constantly about God’s punishment for sinners, but almost never anything about God’s love. This was true in ever Free Methodist Church I went to, not just my grandfathers.

I was also taught, in Sunday School, that the Pope was the Devil Incarnate on Earth. That Nuns were all “Brides of the Devil”, and that they wore habits to hide their horns and tails. That all Nuns had babies that were sacrificed at “Black Masses”.

They see themselves as following the Weslyan tradition, but they are VERY different from other Methodist sects.

They were among the first to have female ministers (in the late 19th century). They broke off from the Methodist-Episcopal Church over two issues. One was slavery (they were adamantly against it) and the other was that the Methodist-Episcopal Churches charged a “pew few” to support themselves. They believed that no one should be charged a fee to sit in the house of God (which is where the “Free” in their name came from).

You can only imagine the terror I felt when my mother announced to me, with one hours notice, that she was placing me in a Catholic Boarding School (it was the cheapest boarding school she could find). I was utterly convinced that she was handing me over to Satan.

 

[Contarini]

Its funny that this should come up. I was just looking the Methodists up recently. It seems like Methodism is a dialect if you will of Anglicanism. Both believing the same things in different ways. Which I am surprised about.

Historically this is true. However, in the U.S. Methodism took off on its own and became one of the central traditions of American Protestantism, jettisoning a lot of the sacramental/liturgical heritage of Anglicanism. In recent decades Methodist theologians and liturgists have been trying to recover that heritage, but it’s a difficult and frustrating task.

In Britain the issues are a bit different–Methodists have a lot of resentment against the Anglican Establishment. Not that British Methodists are very liturgical either.

I’ve heard of something called the “Confessing Our Faith Together” in which the Anglicans and Methodist are to rejoin. I am really surprised by this and must be misunderstanding something. This may only be England.
telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/7216357/General-Synod-Methodists-likely-to-merge-with-Church-of-England.html

Yes, or perhaps Britain. Methodists have one organization for all of Britain. I’m not sure what a union with the C of E would imply for Methodists in Wales, Scotland, and Ireland.

One question. Does the Methodists believe in consubstantiation? because I’m getting mixed messages on this. Wouldn’t they be required to in order to join the Anglicans?

Anglicans don’t necessarily believe in consubstantiation. In fact, no one admits to believing in consubstantiation (as a church)–it’s the way non-Lutherans often describe the Lutheran position, but it generally annoys Lutherans.

Anglican and Methodist official statements about the Real Presence are pretty much the same–the main difference is that many Anglicans hold a much more Catholic view than the official statements imply, while many Methodists hold a much more Protestant one!

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

There are many different “Methodist” Churches, that denomination having split into many different factions over the years.

I grew up as a “Free Methodist”, my maternal grandfather being a Minister in that church for 55 years. They have a VERY strict intrepretation of salvation, being akin to other extremely fundamentalist and evangelical churches.

When I was a boy (in the 1940’s), you could only wear black, dark blue or dark gray clothing (a white shirt or blouse on Sunday), no jewelry of any type (not even a wedding ring), no dancing, no card playing, no drinking, no smoking, no immodest clothing (which meant floor length skirts and total coverage for women), total and complete obedience to ones parents, heavy emphasis on the wrath of God and punishment, absolutely no belief in the real presence (communion is only a memorial function), no wine (they believe that the Bible meant grape juice where it clearly says wine), etc. I heard constantly about God’s punishment for sinners, but almost never anything about God’s love. This was true in ever Free Methodist Church I went to, not just my grandfathers.

I was also taught, in Sunday School, that the Pope was the Devil Incarnate on Earth. That Nuns were all “Brides of the Devil”, and that they wore habits to hide their horns and tails. That all Nuns had babies that were sacrificed at “Black Masses”.

They see themselves as following the Weslyan tradition, but they are VERY different from other Methodist sects.

They were among the first to have female ministers (in the late 19th century). They broke off from the Methodist-Episcopal Church over two issues. One was slavery (they were adamantly against it) and the other was that the Methodist-Episcopal Churches charged a “pew few” to support themselves. They believed that no one should be charged a fee to sit in the house of God (which is where the “Free” in their name came from).

You can only imagine the terror I felt when my mother announced to me, with one hours notice, that she was placing me in a Catholic Boarding School (it was the cheapest boarding school she could find). I was utterly convinced that she was handing me over to Satan.

Interesting. I always thought of Free Methodists as a bit on the liberal side of the Holiness movement, but my family (from the more radical wing of the movement) wasn’t quite as extreme on Catholicism as you’re describing. I certainly heard about nuns having babies and murdering them, but was never told that this was true of all nuns, let alone that they celebrated Black Masses. I was never told that they had horns and tails (you’re really serious about this?)

I did hear a lot about Catholic immorality and corruption (unfortunately, a lot of it turned out to be true) and about Catholic persecutions of Protestants. My family bought a house from some Catholics in 1981 (I was seven), and I was horrified by the fact that they had a statue of Mary under a tree in our back yard. They took the statue to their new house, and when we went to visit them I got a water hose and started spraying the statue. My parents gave me a talking to, but I think this incident really strained our relationship with these people. I deeply regret it now, of course.

My family always had a respect for certain Catholic historical figures, both before and after the Reformation, though we tended to like heterodox ones like Madame Guyon the best. Mostly we thought of all institutional Christianity as corrupt–Catholicism was just the worst example.

Edwin

 

[4Squarebaby]

I was born and raised catholic but I have wondered alot lately about the different denominations of christianity.

Does anyone know of a good website that compares/contrasts all the different branches? I think if would be fascinating to learn about. I would love to take a course as I know of several catholic universtities in my area, however, I am out of work and simply can not spend the $$ of this right now.

I am in no way interested in converting, I am just curious as to what makes us all different and the same

Depends upon what you mean (as opposed to someone else ) by good and/or accurate.
I would start with Religious Tolerance.org

 

[Roy5]

Apart from a small faction known as the Order of St. Luke, I have found that Methodists are very Protestant in their view of communion. They value it, but more as a memorial and a community ‘feast’ than there being anything special about the elements. They also are likely to feel that because God is everywhere anyway (“lo, I am with you always”), the notion that God/Christ is more with us at communion is invalid.

Again, it's an individual thing. I know Methodists who make a special effort to attend church on 'Communion Sunday', commonly the first Sunday of each month. I also know Methodists who deliberately skip Communion Sunday for a variety of reasons. Some are uncomfortable with the ritual involved - some of the words that they regard as a relic of the past ('the vicarious sacrifice' etc). Others avoid Communion Sunday because the service often runs longer and/or the sermon gets cut to a few minutes to save time - and some worshipers put considerable emphasis on the sermon (a Protestant tradition). 

 One Methodist minister I know emphasizes the 'communion' aspect in this sense. At communion we celebrate our communion (communication, closeness) with God as well as being part of the community of the church. 

 There has been an increase in the observance of communion in many Methodist churches. Years ago it often was observed quarterly - four times a year. In some Methodist churches today a special service is held, often early each Sunday morning, for those who want to receive communion more than once a month. These services, however, usually have a poor attendance, probably more because of the hour than anything else.

 

[hazcompat]

John Wesley also read “The Imitation of Christ” every day.

peace

 

[CHRISTINE77]

There are many different “Methodist” Churches, that denomination having split into many different factions over the years.

I grew up as a “Free Methodist”, my maternal grandfather being a Minister in that church for 55 years. They have a VERY strict intrepretation of salvation, being akin to other extremely fundamentalist and evangelical churches.

When I was a boy (in the 1940’s), you could only wear black, dark blue or dark gray clothing (a white shirt or blouse on Sunday), no jewelry of any type (not even a wedding ring), no dancing, no card playing, no drinking, no smoking, no immodest clothing (which meant floor length skirts and total coverage for women), total and complete obedience to ones parents, heavy emphasis on the wrath of God and punishment, absolutely no belief in the real presence (communion is only a memorial function), no wine (they believe that the Bible meant grape juice where it clearly says wine), etc. I heard constantly about God’s punishment for sinners, but almost never anything about God’s love. This was true in ever Free Methodist Church I went to, not just my grandfathers.

I was also taught, in Sunday School, that the Pope was the Devil Incarnate on Earth. That Nuns were all “Brides of the Devil”, and that they wore habits to hide their horns and tails. That all Nuns had babies that were sacrificed at “Black Masses”.

They see themselves as following the Weslyan tradition, but they are VERY different from other Methodist sects.

They were among the first to have female ministers (in the late 19th century). They broke off from the Methodist-Episcopal Church over two issues. One was slavery (they were adamantly against it) and the other was that the Methodist-Episcopal Churches charged a “pew few” to support themselves. They believed that no one should be charged a fee to sit in the house of God (which is where the “Free” in their name came from).

You can only imagine the terror I felt when my mother announced to me, with one hours notice, that she was placing me in a Catholic Boarding School (it was the cheapest boarding school she could find). I was utterly convinced that she was handing me over to Satan.

Wow that is quite a story! How did the Catholic boarding school actually turn out? How old were you?

 

[The_Old_Medic]

I was nine years old.

I went to that school, operated by the Dominican Sisters of Mission San Jose. I loved it, they were kind, gentle, I flourished there. I learned to sing (which I still love to do), I decided to become a Priest. (That didn’t work out, I argued that people taking vows of poverty should actually live like poor people do. That was NOT a popular idea, and after i brought it up repeatedly, I was asked to leave.)

I spent the 2nd half of the 4th grade, all of that summer (and went to the only summer camp I ever attended, operated by that same school, the first half of the 5th grade and all of the 6th grade at the Albertinum, in Ukiah, California. It was a fantastic place, it is a shame they had to close it in 1969.

I quite literally owe my faith, and most likely my sanity, to those wonderful Nuns.

 

[The_Wanderer]

I’m a former Methodist. How easy would it be to, say, make the transition from Methodism to Catholicism?

 

[CHRISTINE77]

I was nine years old.

I went to that school, operated by the Dominican Sisters of Mission San Jose. I loved it, they were kind, gentle, I flourished there. I learned to sing (which I still love to do), I decided to become a Priest. (That didn’t work out, I argued that people taking vows of poverty should actually live like poor people do. That was NOT a popular idea, and after i brought it up repeatedly, I was asked to leave.)

I spent the 2nd half of the 4th grade, all of that summer (and went to the only summer camp I ever attended, operated by that same school, the first half of the 5th grade and all of the 6th grade at the Albertinum, in Ukiah, California. It was a fantastic place, it is a shame they had to close it in 1969.

I quite literally owe my faith, and most likely my sanity, to those wonderful Nuns.

Nice story! I went to kindergarten at a Catholic school in Oklahoma. The nun I had for a teacher was a little strict! Still, I liked it all and all.

 

[Erich]

The nun I had for a teacher was a little strict!

Little Zachary was doing very badly in math. His parents had tried everything…tutors, mentors, flash cards, special learning centers, and more.

In short, everything they could think of to help his math.

Finally, in a last ditch effort, they took Zachary down and enrolled him In the local Catholic school. After the first day, little Zachary came home with a very serious look on his face. He didn’t even kiss his mother hello. Instead, he went straight to his room and started studying.

Books and papers were spread out all over the room and little Zachary was hard at work. His mother was amazed. She called him down to dinner.

To her shock, the minute he was done, he marched back to his room without a word, and in no time, he was back hitting the books as hard as before.

This went on for some time, day after day, while the mother tried to understand what made all the difference.

Finally, little Zachary brought home his Report Card. He quietly laid it on the table, went up to his room and hit the books. With great trepidation, His Mom looked at it and to her great surprise, Little Zachary got an **’A’ **in math.

She could no longer hold her curiosity. She went to his room and said, *‘Son, what was it? Was it the nuns?’ *Little Zachary looked at her and shook his head, no. *‘Well, then,’ she replied, Was it the books, the discipline, the structure, the uniforms? WHAT WAS IT?’ *

Little Zachary looked at her and said, ‘Well, on the first day of school when I saw that guy nailed to the plus sign, I knew they weren’t fooling around.’

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Little Zachary was doing very badly in math. His parents had tried everything…tutors, mentors, flash cards, special learning centers, and more.

In short, everything they could think of to help his math.

Finally, in a last ditch effort, they took Zachary down and enrolled him In the local Catholic school. After the first day, little Zachary came home with a very serious look on his face. He didn’t even kiss his mother hello. Instead, he went straight to his room and started studying.

Books and papers were spread out all over the room and little Zachary was hard at work. His mother was amazed. She called him down to dinner.

To her shock, the minute he was done, he marched back to his room without a word, and in no time, he was back hitting the books as hard as before.

Ha ha. Truly though, there was a little red chair that you had to sit in when you were naughty - the devil’s chair!

This went on for some time, day after day, while the mother tried to understand what made all the difference.

Finally, little Zachary brought home his Report Card. He quietly laid it on the table, went up to his room and hit the books. With great trepidation, His Mom looked at it and to her great surprise, Little Zachary got an **’A’ **in math.

She could no longer hold her curiosity. She went to his room and said, *‘Son, what was it? Was it the nuns?’ *Little Zachary looked at her and shook his head, no. *‘Well, then,’ she replied, Was it the books, the discipline, the structure, the uniforms? WHAT WAS IT?’ *

Little Zachary looked at her and said, ‘Well, on the first day of school when I saw that guy nailed to the plus sign, I knew they weren’t fooling around.’

 

[Roy5]

It depends on what you want in a church.

If you have been a Methodist who enjoys liturgy, who can sincerely believe all the doctrines of Catholicism, who has no problem with the authoritarian nature of Catholicism, and who approves various practices of the church (for example, celibate clergy, no artificial birth control, no ordination of women, etc.), then you likely will find Catholicism to your liking.

If, however, you are a bit of a freethinker and sometimes march to the beat of a different drum, less ritualistic and prayerbook-oriented than Catholicism, prefer considerable democracy when it comes to church polity, approve of married clergy and ordination of women, and believe that such matters as artificial birth control should be decided by married couples and not by the church - well, stick with mainline Protestantism, whether it be Methodism, Presbyterianism, Lutheranism, United Church of Christ, etc. 

Different strokes for different folks. The notion that there is only one true religion and none other - that's why we have the terrorism of today. Religion should be a bridge and not a barrier.

 

[JonNC]

=Roy5;7585336]
If, however, you are a bit of a freethinker and sometimes march to the beat of a different drum, less ritualistic and prayerbook-oriented than Catholicism, prefer considerable democracy when it comes to church polity, approve of married clergy and ordination of women, and believe that such matters as artificial birth control should be decided by married couples and not by the church - well, stick with mainline Protestantism, whether it be Methodism, Presbyterianism, Lutheranism, United Church of Christ, etc.

When you throw Lutheranism in with UCC, it makes me cringe. Sorry.
Freethinker? No, Augsburg confession.
Women in the clergy? No.
Give up the liturgy? Not likely.
And one of the things that bothers me about the LCMS is it is too congregational in polity.

Jon

 

[campeador]

Can someone please verify if this is true?

God and Hillary Clinton, by Paul Kengor, p. 50
“The Methodist Church is very strongly pro-choice.”

 

[mark_a]

What do Methodists believe that is different from Catholics. What do Methodists think about the Catholic faith?

I really couldn’t tell you, but one thing I like about them is they are really good about keeping it to themselves while interacting with Catholics.

 

[mark_a]

Different strokes for different folks. The notion that there is only one true religion and none other -

Why would anyone who puts even modest effort into his faith be part of a system that he didn’t believe to be the one true religion?

that’s why we have the terrorism of today.

I’d like your honest opinion of this short video: youtube.com/watch?v=TkGQmCZjJ0k

 

[mark_a]

Can someone please verify if this is true?

God and Hillary Clinton, by Paul Kengor, p. 50
“The Methodist Church is very strongly pro-choice.”

It’s hard to imagine that any denomination would identify themselves as “strongly pro-choice”, but I guess it’s possible.

Anyway, here ya go: religioustolerance.org/abo_hist1.htm

 

[Erich]

prefer considerable democracy when it comes to church polity

From CCC 946,
After confessing “the holy catholic Church,” the Apostles’ Creed adds “the communion of saints.” In a certain sense this article is a further explanation of the preceding: “What is the Church if not the assembly of all the saints?” The communion of saints is the Church.
All the saints – i.e. those still living, and those who have gone before us and are now in Heaven (or Purgatory). Ideally, the Church on earth is modeled after the Church in Heaven… and I for one am appreciative of the fact that the Church in Heaven is the Kingdom of God and not the “democracy of God.”

The notion that there is only one true religion and none other - that’s why we have the terrorism of today.

Jesus prayed “that they all may be one; as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be one in us.” We are a looonnnggg way from being one.

Jesus also said, “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life.” Jesus is God, there is One God; it follows that there can be only one Truth.

Religion should be a bridge and not a barrier.

The Church should be a thermostat, not a thermometer.

“No artificial birth control” goes all the way back to the Garden of Eden: “the two shall become one flesh” not “the two shall almost become one flesh, separated only by a thin physical (or chemical) barrier.” It wasn’t until 1930 that Protestants started believing that artificial birth control should be decided by married couples and not by the church.

The tradition of a celibate clergy goes back at least to Jesus Himself, who said (in Matthew 19:11, “Jesus replied, ‘Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.’”

Only in the 1800’s did Protestants start ordaining women clergy. Only in 1980 did Protestants start ordaining women bishops.