Miami archbishop: raise the minimum wage [CC]

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These two are opinions, not Church teaching.

How is stating an opinion, for which a bishop has a legal right, usurping anyone else’s right? While I may disagree with the Archbishop, he has not harmed me in any way by making a comment.
Doesn’t this depend on what kind of right one is talking about? If one is talking about a LEGAL right, then there is no question that the bishop has the right to speak his mind on any subject.

If one is talking about a MORAL right, then one has to be a little more cautious. If a bishop is talking about an issue that is within the realm of “prudential judgment”, then one would not be unreasonable to expect him to make it clear that he’s speaking in that manner and NOT instructing as to what the Church teaches. Inasmuch as people quite frequently take any kind of pronouncement on USCCB letterhead as somehow being a statement of doctrine or a consensus statement by all bishops, rather than simply one man’s prudential judgment, one may reasonably believe a line has been crossed.
 
Doesn’t this depend on what kind of right one is talking about? If one is talking about a LEGAL right, then there is no question that the bishop has the right to speak his mind on any subject.

If one is talking about a MORAL right, then one has to be a little more cautious. If a bishop is talking about an issue that is within the realm of “prudential judgment”, then one would not be unreasonable to expect him to make it clear that he’s speaking in that manner and NOT instructing as to what the Church teaches. Inasmuch as people quite frequently take any kind of pronouncement on USCCB letterhead as somehow being a statement of doctrine or a consensus statement by all bishops, rather than simply one man’s prudential judgment, one may reasonably believe a line has been crossed.
I cannot imagine how anyone could be led to believe that the Archbishop in his letter is either speaking for all bishops, or speaking definitively on Church doctrine.
 
Where is it in Church teaching that a bishop cannot express an opinion on the minimum wage?
Experienced in human affairs, the Church, without attempting to interfere in any way in the politics of States, “seeks but a solitary goal: to carry forward the work of Christ Himself under the lead of the befriending Spirit. And Christ entered this world to give witness to the truth, to rescue and not to sit in judgment, to serve and not to be served”.[12] Founded to establish on earth the Kingdom of heaven and not to conquer any earthly power, the Church clearly states that the two realms are distinct, just as the two powers, ecclesiastical and civil, are supreme, each in its own domain.[13] But, since the Church lives in history, she ought to “scrutinize the signs of the times and interpret them in the light of the Gospel”.

- Paul VI, Populorum Progressio
The Church does not have technical solutions to offer10] and does not claim “to interfere in any way in the politics of States.”[11] She does, however, have a mission of truth to accomplish, in every time and circumstance, for a society that is attuned to man, to his dignity, to his vocation.

- Benedict XVI, Caritas in Veritate
Secular duties and activities belong properly although not exclusively to laymen. Therefore acting as citizens in the world, whether individually or socially, they will keep the laws proper to each discipline, and labor to equip themselves with a genuine expertise in their various fields. They will gladly work with men seeking the same goals. Acknowledging the demands of faith and endowed with its force, they will unhesitatingly devise new enterprises, where they are appropriate, and put them into action. Laymen should also know that it is generally the function of their well-formed Christian conscience to see that the divine law is inscribed in the life of the earthly city; from priests they may look for spiritual light and nourishment. **Let the layman not imagine that his pastors are always such experts, that to every problem which arises, however complicated, they can readily give him a concrete solution, or even that such is their mission. **Rather, enlightened by Christian wisdom and giving close attention to the teaching authority of the Church,(17) let the layman take on his own distinctive role.

(snip)

**Bishops, to whom is assigned the task of ruling the Church of God, should, together with their priests, so preach the news of Christ **that all the earthly activities of the faithful will be bathed in the light of the Gospel. All pastors should remember too that by their daily conduct and concern(18) they are revealing the face of the Church to the world, and men will judge the power and truth of the Christian message thereby.

- Vatican II, Gaudium et Spes
While none of these documents of the Magisterium proscribe the bishops from speaking on secular legislation, they do tend to indicate that the actual technical solutions are the province of the laity to develop. In other words, it is definitely up to the bishop to preach and teach on the social doctrine of the Church and to point out where society is falling short on that doctrine. But in either proposing specific legislative / policy points (calling for a minimum wage increase) or advocating / opposing specific legislation (calling on Catholics to lobby for the passage of a specific bill…or speaking out against a particular piece of legislation), they are treading into the realm that has been properly identified as belonging to the laity.

It would be better if His Excellency would vigorously preach on the importance to pay people justly and for the flock to faithfully perform the corporal works of mercy for those poor souls who aren’t paid justly.
 
While none of these documents of the Magisterium proscribe the bishops from speaking on secular legislation, they do tend to indicate that the actual technical solutions are the province of the laity to develop.
And of course, the minimum wage was developed by the laity (or at least non-clergy), so that is one technical solution, perhaps part of the problem is that there are not more technical solutions offered.
In other words, it is definitely up to the bishop to preach and teach on the social doctrine of the Church and to point out where society is falling short on that doctrine. But in either proposing specific legislative / policy points (calling for a minimum wage increase) or advocating / opposing specific legislation (calling on Catholics to lobby for the passage of a specific bill…or speaking out against a particular piece of legislation), they are treading into the realm that has been properly identified as belonging to the laity.
While the bulk of policy is the province of the laity, there is nothing that prevents a member of the clergy from providing an endorsement of a particular policy. Where the exact line is, is hard to determine.
 
I cannot imagine how anyone could be led to believe that the Archbishop in his letter is either speaking for all bishops, or speaking definitively on Church doctrine.
Nor do I, but we see people claim it on CAF all the time. Some, I think, are being disingenuous about what some bishop’s letter represents. But I don’t think all are.

Here’s a copy of a letter Abp Wenski wrote to members of Congress. It’s on USCCB letterhead.usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/labor-employment/upload/joint-minimum-wage-letter-2014-01-08.pdf People see things like that and assume somehow it’s an official Church position, or at least that of Catholic bishops as a group. I’ll confess, it does make me wince when I see bishops do that, espousing something that is not a position of the Church or of the USCCB as a whole.

Personal letterhead is not all that expensive, and besides, you can generate it on your home computer.
 
It seems to me if you’re a proponent of the minimum wage you will likely find linkage to the gospel or other moral standard, but if you are against the minimum wage you will likely find it primarily an economic issue. Is this a fair statement?
 
What percentage of union contracts have their salaries tied to the minimum wage?
Good question. It doesn’t seem to be something Dept Labor keeps track of, but it is a fact. Here is a recent article, but I have heard this for years. Are you in a union? You could investigate your contract. Some unions have even touted this fact as a benefit of union bargaining.

online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887324048904578318541000422454

unionfacts.com/article/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Union_Minimum_Wage_report.pdf
 
How is stating an opinion, for which a bishop has a legal right, usurping anyone else’s right?
This has nothing whatever to do with legal rights but about the rights and duties of the office of bishop. As you can see from the citation of the Fourth Lateran Council, the church separated lay and clerical concerns and pointing out that neither was justified in infringing on the other’s areas of responsibility. It seems that in this case that line was crossed.
While I may disagree with the Archbishop, he has not harmed me in any way by making a comment.
Well his comments harm those who disagree with him, and harm him and the other bishops as well. The citations you dismissed as opinions point out the harm done the clergy when they stray into politics. The harm done the laity is that it lowers the tone of the debate by encouraging those who agree with the bishop to believe that their opponents are not merely wrong but are behaving immorally. That is damaging both to the accusers and the accused.

Ender
 
It seems to me if you’re a proponent of the minimum wage you will likely find linkage to the gospel or other moral standard, but if you are against the minimum wage you will likely find it primarily an economic issue. Is this a fair statement?
No, I don’t this is accurate. We all know what the church teaches as far as objectives: feed the hungry, heal the sick, help the poor, and certainly every Catholic accepts this as a matter of course. The specific question is whether accepting the end of helping the poor means we must also accept that raising the minimum wage is the right means to use. There is of course nothing at all in church teaching that addresses this specific point, nor should we expect to find anything.

The church specifies the ends toward which we are to strive and guidelines describing what we may and may not do, but within those boundaries it is specifically a lay responsibility to devise the means. The minimum wage is a means of achieving an end but it is not the end itself and the laity not only has the right to act as they think best on the issue but they have that responsibility as well.

You should be able to determine this for yourself by asking: what moral choice confronts us in deciding whether raising the minimum wage will actually do more good than harm?

Ender
 
It seems to me if you’re a proponent of the minimum wage you will likely find linkage to the gospel or other moral standard, but if you are against the minimum wage you will likely find it primarily an economic issue. Is this a fair statement?
I personally see the government imposition of any kind of wage control as being gravely immoral.
 
No, I don’t this is accurate. We all know what the church teaches as far as objectives: feed the hungry, heal the sick, help the poor, and certainly every Catholic accepts this as a matter of course. The specific question is whether accepting the end of helping the poor means we must also accept that raising the minimum wage is the right means to use. There is of course nothing at all in church teaching that addresses this specific point, nor should we expect to find anything.

The church specifies the ends toward which we are to strive and guidelines describing what we may and may not do, but within those boundaries it is specifically a lay responsibility to devise the means. The minimum wage is a means of achieving an end but it is not the end itself and the laity not only has the right to act as they think best on the issue but they have that responsibility as well.

You should be able to determine this for yourself by asking: what moral choice confronts us in deciding whether raising the minimum wage will actually do more good than harm?

Ender
For sure, there are theoretical moral advantages and disadvantages to be calculated on all sides of the issue
.
Right means to use? Raising the minimum wage is one way to help those at the lower income levels. It does not preclude society from pursuing other means, as well.

The negatives for raising the minimum wage come down to the free choices of employers, stockholders and customers, who are not solely motivated by profits and savings but also by moral considerations. Our system is broken if it requires an embedded element of poverty in order to prosper.

As you can tell, I see a very definite nexus between raising the minimum wage and morality. While it’s not immoral to oppose raising the minimum wage, one can advocate for it for moral reasons alone. Therefore, I support the Bishop’s support for raising the minimum wage, and I see it as within his purview to do so.
 
For sure, there are theoretical moral advantages and disadvantages to be calculated on all sides of the issue
.
Right means to use? Raising the minimum wage is one way to help those at the lower income levels. It does not preclude society from pursuing other means, as well.

The negatives for raising the minimum wage come down to the free choices of employers, stockholders and customers, who are not solely motivated by profits and savings but also by moral considerations. Our system is broken if it requires an embedded element of poverty in order to prosper.

As you can tell, I see a very definite nexus between raising the minimum wage and morality. While it’s not immoral to oppose raising the minimum wage, one can advocate for it for moral reasons alone. Therefore, I support the Bishop’s support for raising the minimum wage, and I see it as within his purview to do so.
It’s only correct to suppose one can morally advocate an increase in the minimum wage if one assumes a net improvement in the lives of enough people overbalancing a net loss in the lives of enough other people.

I don’t think anyone, and certainly not the Archbishop, knows whether it will or not. It’s hotly debated among people of reasonable erudition and good will, and precisly because nobody really knows.

Nothing in the debate requires that a given number of people live in poverty. What presently guarantees it is the lack of employment, not the lack a government-mandated pay scale. Presently, the “true” unemployment number is at the levels experienced in the better years of the Great Depression. But for welfare, we would be seeing soup lines as long as they were in 1936.

Government-mandated prices and wages in the Depression didn’t improve anything, and indisputably harmed many. We have a pretty good idea why that was. The demand just wasn’t there to justify the mandated wage and price levels, so more people went unhired and more goods went unsold.

No doubt the good Archbishop thinks a rise in the minimum wages will help people more than it will harm them. But if, as I believe, the issue would simply go away if there was a sufficient demand for labor, he’s sniffing down the wrong trail. He should be considering why employment and investment are so lackluster.

But if he did that, he would likely find himself on the opposite side of what this administration fosters, not on the same side. But then, how comfortable would an Archbishop feel if he encouraged, say, fracking in upper New York State where the unemployment rate is terrible versus the almost incredibly low unemployment rate in North Dakota where it’s not forbidden.

Possibly that would seem a bit too controversial among some, even if doing it might do more for poverty in upper NY State than any change in the minimum wage law would ever do.

And opposing the current, bogus EPA requirements on coal fired plants might improve poverty in West Virgina, but it would draw savage fire from the MMGW people.

Safer, I guess, to talk about the minimum wage, or at least safer from the most vocal of potential critics.
 
I personally see the government imposition of any kind of wage control as being gravely immoral.
Is that because of who is in the WH and all that they stand for? Minimum wage has been around for decades and that includes Republican and Democrat administrations.

If government imposition of wage control is gravely immoral then should workplace safety and regulations from the government wrong too?

Also is mandating a minimum threshold for wages a control (businesses can exceed that wage)?
 
It’s only correct to suppose one can morally advocate an increase in the minimum wage if one assumes a net improvement in the lives of enough people overbalancing a net loss in the lives of enough other people.
Then I believe one can morally advocate a modest increase in the minimum wage, like the one proposed, in the vast majority of cases.
 
Nothing in the debate requires that a given number of people live in poverty.
The low wages that would be paid without a minimum wage would definitely ensure a larger number of people living at the poverty level all other things being equal.
 
And opposing the current, bogus EPA requirements on coal fired plants might improve poverty in West Virgina, but it would draw savage fire from the MMGW people.
This is oh, so true! Like the Keystone Pipeline, our government is deliberately making decisions to choke off job creation because of policies that have no possible short-term benefits even by their own measures.
 
Is that because of who is in the WH and all that they stand for? Minimum wage has been around for decades and that includes Republican and Democrat administrations.

If government imposition of wage control is gravely immoral then should workplace safety and regulations from the government wrong too?

Also is mandating a minimum threshold for wages a control (businesses can exceed that wage)?
I see it as a fundamental violation of the principle of subsidiarity. And I opposed Nixon’s wage/price controls as much as FDR’s. Party neutral. I also see it as an over-simplified solution that has as many, if not more, negative side effects than benefits.

I suggest you read Centesimus Annus article 48 in full for a discussion of the proper role of the State.
  • The responsibility to pay employees a just wage is the responsibility of the employer.
  • The responsibility to assist employees in ensuring their employers actual pay the wage owed belongs to the State (see Rerum Novarum).
There are a number of things that the State can do to assist workers in being better compensated. For example:
  • They can assume taxation and regulatory policies to encourage greater economic activity (greater economic activity will result in higher employment)
  • They can actually enforce immigration legislation to control the number of immigrants who come in the country and work. That would have the effect of limiting the size of the labor pool. The scarcer a resource, the more people will be willing to competitively pay to get that resource if it is needed. That works for material…but it also works for people.
From JPII, Sollicitudo Rei Socialis:
It should be noted that in today’s world, among other rights, the right of economic initiative is often suppressed. Yet it is a right which is important not only for the individual but also for the common good. **Experience shows us that the denial of this right, or its limitation in the name of an alleged “equality” of everyone in society, diminishes, or in practice absolutely destroys the spirit of initiative, that is to say the creative subjectivity of the citizen. As a consequence, there arises, not so much a true equality as a “leveling down.”**In the place of creative initiative there appears passivity, dependence and submission to the bureaucratic apparatus which, as the only “ordering” and “decision-making” body - if not also the “owner”- of the entire totality of goods and the means of production, puts everyone in a position of almost absolute dependence, which is similar to the traditional dependence of the worker-proletarian in capitalism. This provokes a sense of frustration or desperation and predisposes people to opt out of national life, impelling many to emigrate and also favoring a form of “psychological” emigration.
Note the bolded text above. The more you try to regulate equality (through wage controls…to include controlling the minimum wage), the more you are going to see the problems JPII highlighted above.

It is very difficult, if not impossible, to regulate people treating each other with appropriate justice.

Also, let’s ask this other question: if an employer can afford to hire 100 people at $5 an hour, but if the minimum wage is raised to $10 an hour, the employer will find it necessary to implement automation so that he can reduce the number of employees required to do the job (say he only needs 30 higher-qualified employees vice 100 lower-skilled employees to do the same thing), who is better served? Sure, the 30 employees getting paid $10 an hour are better off…but what about the 70 who were laid off?

As far as safety regulations, with VERY few exceptions (interstate trucking, interstate rail, air travel, as well as customs safety regs for importing products), I think the appropriate place to regulate is at the state level and not the federal level. This for the purpose of subsidiarity as well as following the original intent of the US Constitution (show me where OSHA is mandated in Article 1 Section 8, please)
 
I see it as a fundamental violation of the principle of subsidiarity. And I opposed Nixon’s wage/price controls as much as FDR’s. Party neutral. I also see it as an over-simplified solution that has as many, if not more, negative side effects than benefits.

I suggest you read Centesimus Annus article 48 in full for a discussion of the proper role of the State.
  • The responsibility to pay employees a just wage is the responsibility of the employer.
  • The responsibility to assist employees in ensuring their employers actual pay the wage owed belongs to the State (see Rerum Novarum).
There are a number of things that the State can do to assist workers in being better compensated. For example:
  • They can assume taxation and regulatory policies to encourage greater economic activity (greater economic activity will result in higher employment)
  • They can actually enforce immigration legislation to control the number of immigrants who come in the country and work. That would have the effect of limiting the size of the labor pool. The scarcer a resource, the more people will be willing to competitively pay to get that resource if it is needed. That works for material…but it also works for people.
From JPII, Sollicitudo Rei Socialis:
It should be noted that in today’s world, among other rights, the right of economic initiative is often suppressed. Yet it is a right which is important not only for the individual but also for the common good. **Experience shows us that the denial of this right, or its limitation in the name of an alleged “equality” of everyone in society, diminishes, or in practice absolutely destroys the spirit of initiative, that is to say the creative subjectivity of the citizen. As a consequence, there arises, not so much a true equality as a “leveling down.”**In the place of creative initiative there appears passivity, dependence and submission to the bureaucratic apparatus which, as the only “ordering” and “decision-making” body - if not also the “owner”- of the entire totality of goods and the means of production, puts everyone in a position of almost absolute dependence, which is similar to the traditional dependence of the worker-proletarian in capitalism. This provokes a sense of frustration or desperation and predisposes people to opt out of national life, impelling many to emigrate and also favoring a form of “psychological” emigration.
Note the bolded text above. The more you try to regulate equality (through wage controls…to include controlling the minimum wage), the more you are going to see the problems JPII highlighted above.

It is very difficult, if not impossible, to regulate people treating each other with appropriate justice.

Also, let’s ask this other question: if an employer can afford to hire 100 people at $5 an hour, but if the minimum wage is raised to $10 an hour, the employer will find it necessary to implement automation so that he can reduce the number of employees required to do the job (say he only needs 30 higher-qualified employees vice 100 lower-skilled employees to do the same thing), who is better served? Sure, the 30 employees getting paid $10 an hour are better off…but what about the 70 who were laid off?

As far as safety regulations, with VERY few exceptions (interstate trucking, interstate rail, air travel, as well as customs safety regs for importing products), I think the appropriate place to regulate is at the state level and not the federal level. This for the purpose of subsidiarity as well as following the original intent of the US Constitution (show me where OSHA is mandated in Article 1 Section 8, please)
I see what you are saying and I do agree about the scenario of an employer hiring 100 people and the negative consequences of doubling the minimum wage. While some people want to raise the minimum wage to a living wage (which would be bad) I am in favor of moderate annual increases of the minimum wage to match the inflation rate. Considering that about 5-7% of the workforce makes minimum wage its not an issue that I see that can hurt most businesses if its moderately increased.
 
I see what you are saying and I do agree about the scenario of an employer hiring 100 people and the negative consequences of doubling the minimum wage. While some people want to raise the minimum wage to a living wage (which would be bad) I am in favor of moderate annual increases of the minimum wage to match the inflation rate. Considering that about 5-7% of the workforce makes minimum wage its not an issue that I see that can hurt most businesses if its moderately increased.
I think at the current level of the minimum wage, the behavioral effects are minimal at best. So the relevant question would be if we are hiring 100 people at $5, would it be better to have 99 people working at $5.50 an hour. Economics can help partially with that answer, but it cannot fully answer the question. For example, that might be ok if the person laid off is a college student who is using the money to make his new car payments and his smart phone plan. One of the problems that my students have is that they tend to work too much and put working ahead of studying.
 
I think at the current level of the minimum wage, the behavioral effects are minimal at best. So the relevant question would be if we are hiring 100 people at $5, would it be better to have 99 people working at $5.50 an hour. Economics can help partially with that answer, but it cannot fully answer the question. For example, that might be ok if the person laid off is a college student who is using the money to make his new car payments and his smart phone plan. One of the problems that my students have is that they tend to work too much and put working ahead of studying.
Most minimum wage earners (at least in Ontario) are High School/University students and its part-time.
 
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