None. Studies have shown that the number of jobs will increase because of the extra money being spent by the poor. Unlike the rich who put their money in secret accounts in the Cayman Islands or in Cyprus and invest in foreign accounts, the working poor have no choice but to spend all their money in the USA.How many people are going to lose their jobs if the minimum wage is raised?
Not true. You have misstated what the article has shown. Anyone can read that the evidence is based on an analysis, compiled by the financial information company NerdWallet.No it isn’t. It’s the HuffPo’s opinion. No evidence to support any proposition you have stated.
This is the USA where the prices are higher than many other countries. A loaf bread that I buy at the local supermarket sells for $5.38. A comparable loaf of bread, perhaps even of better quality, costs 60 cents in China (at the current exchange rate for the yuan). That is about nine times as much in the USA.A minimum wage of $10/hr is a full time annual wage of $20,800 per year, which is greater than the median income in many nations.
At one time I blindly accepted the opinions of other conservatives around me, accepting their rationales that the MW was a bad idea. It seemed logical on the surface, anyway. As time went on, in the wake of all the liberal v. conservative wrangling, I thought it out myself and came to a different conclusion. I will explain later on why I choose one policy over another on moral grounds.You said that you used to be against the minimum wage. Was that because you didn’t care about the poor before or because you thought it was bad economic policy? You are certainly justified in supporting whichever policy you believe is best, and to changing your mind over time, but you are not justified in suggesting that one policy is more moral than the other. Your own experience with this issue should convince you of that.
No.Do you really think the people who oppose raising the minimum wage do so because they don’t care about families living in poverty?
First, I believe I have a moral obligation to help my brother who is in need. I don’t view it as an optional thing, but a necessary thing, in much the same vein as Revelations where it is written, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty…’You seem like a thoughtful person; explain what that moral choice is.
$5.38 for a loaf of bread? I never pay more than $2, and most weeks I can find the store brand on sale for $1.This is the USA where the prices are higher than many other countries. A loaf bread that I buy at the local supermarket sells for $5.38. A comparable loaf of bread, perhaps even of better quality, costs 60 cents in China (at the current exchange rate for the yuan). That is about nine times as much in the USA.
You may feel morally bound to support raising the MW, but to what? There is no magic number.Because I do believe raising the MW is good (in the overall sense) I feel morally bound to support raising the MW. That is not to say that someone could not come to the opposite conclusion and feel morally bound to oppose a raise in the MW.
This is how I see it as a moral issue. Apparently, the Bishop sees raising the MW as the moral thing to do.
True. There is a store brand of bread which sells for 99 cents here also. However, it is so bad that even hungry birds refuse to eat crumbs or bits from it. It is not the same with the more expensive (organic) brand that I usually buy. The birds will devour bits from that immediately. In no time at all, the birds will eat a large amount of pieces of this bread, and all traces of bread disappear quickly. The bread you buy in China, for 4 yuan, or 60 cents is of a much higher quality than the 99 cent brand here. Birds will eat the Chinese bread also.$5.38 for a loaf of bread? I never pay more than $2, and most weeks I can find the store brand on sale for $1.
Let’s review what he said: “For a worker to be dignified by his or her work, remuneration must be just,” said Archbishop Wenski. “The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches that workers deserve just wages, wages that allow them and their families to fulfill material, social, cultural and spiritual needs.”No. He didn’t say that. I know his position is not* the* moral one. You know it.
Exactly, our moral obligation is to do what we think is best for all involved. It is our intent that determines the morality of the action (in the case of prudential choices), not the choice itself. So long as the action is morally neutral and our intent is good we have acted morally.Either it is good to raise the MW, or it is bad to do so. If I decide it is bad to raise it, then morally I have no choice but to oppose it, so as not to see harm incurred by the wage earners and/or others related to that action. If I decide it is good to raise it, then morally I have no choice but to support it, as I wish to see help given to the wage earners and others who might benefit, such as their families.
You are morally bound to do what you think is good, as are we all, but that doesn’t mean that there is any moral difference between those who support a position and those who oppose it.Because I do believe raising the MW is good (in the overall sense) I feel morally bound to support raising the MW. That is not to say that someone could not come to the opposite conclusion and feel morally bound to oppose a raise in the MW.
If this was true then every issue would be a moral issue, even car repair.This is how I see it as a moral issue. Apparently, the Bishop sees raising the MW as the moral thing to do.
The letter was sent to Congress. I am sure that most of them are as capable of understanding what was said as you, I and the others here who have commented on the nature of such a statement. You gave a quote with two facts, no plan of action to raise the minimum wage. Let me add context:“For a worker to be dignified by his or her work, remuneration must be just,” said Archbishop Wenski. “The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches that workers deserve just wages, wages that allow them and their families to fulfill material, social, cultural and spiritual needs.”
“The current state and federal minimum wages do not meet that standard,
How do you read that and not conclude that his position is mandated by Catholic teaching?
We write not as economists or labor market experts, but rather as pastors and teachers who every day, in our ministries and churches, see the pain and struggles caused by an economy that simply does not produce enough jobs with just wages. So many of our families find it increasingly difficult to afford basic needs, forcing some to take multiple jobs or, in desperation, even seek out predatory loans.
I do appreciate the job that everyone is doing of pointing out what even the bishops know, their expertise is not in economics and no specific law is the right moral choice.We will not speak to the specifics of policies, but can draw from our teaching to offer principles to build a just economy and advance the common good.
Probably he does, but he did not say that. Re-read the letter. These men make these comments to bring to the table the moral issues, not to show a moral solution. If trickle-down economics, voodoo economics or quasi-re-establishmentarian cosmological economics would address the moral issues at hand, then they too would be moral.Because I do believe raising the MW is good (in the overall sense) I feel morally bound to support raising the MW. That is not to say that someone could not come to the opposite conclusion and feel morally bound to oppose a raise in the MW.
This is how I see it as a moral issue. Apparently, the Bishop sees raising the MW as the moral thing to do.
And you see absolutely no connection between this fact and the MW?This is the USA where the prices are higher than many other countries. A loaf bread that I buy at the local supermarket sells for $5.38. A comparable loaf of bread, perhaps even of better quality, costs 60 cents in China (at the current exchange rate for the yuan). That is about nine times as much in the USA.
None. Studies have shown that the number of jobs will increase because of the extra money being spent by the poor. Unlike the rich who put their money in secret accounts in the Cayman Islands or in Cyprus and invest in foreign accounts, the working poor have no choice but to spend all their money in the USA.
If there is a connection, which is highly debatable, since how can the lowest 2% of the labor force have a big impact on the cost of living, the real question is what is the direction of causality? Perhaps the high MW is caused by the high cost of living? Bring down the cost of living and there will be less reason to raise the MW.And you see absolutely no connection between this fact and the MW?
Keynesian economic principles worked pretty good under Reagan. Cutting taxes and increasing government spending did seem to stimulate the economy.
- Your post seems to be predicated on Keynesian economics principles. Is there some real world examples where these principles have worked?
Well speak of the devil…None. Studies have shown that the number of jobs will increase because of the extra money being spent by the poor. Unlike the rich who put their money in secret accounts in the Cayman Islands or in Cyprus and invest in foreign accounts, the working poor have no choice but to spend all their money in the USA.
So if the bishop is not speaking as an economist and explaining what the best economic solution is and he’s not speaking from church doctrine telling us what the right moral choice is what, exactly, is he speaking as? If he isn’t saying that raising the minimum wage is right either economically or morally then what is he telling us? … and why should we care?their expertise is not in economics and no specific law is the right moral choice.
He’s speaking as a private individual, according to Canon Law, notwithstanding that he used USCCB letterhead on which to express himself. Undoubtedly he was unaware, when he expressed his opinion, that as many people would be hurt as helped by the change, and that those hurt would be hurt more than those helped would be helped. The CBO numbers were not available to him at the time, so it was an unfortunate speculation on his part.So if the bishop is not speaking as an economist and explaining what the best economic solution is and he’s not speaking from church doctrine telling us what the right moral choice is what, exactly, is he speaking as? If he isn’t saying that raising the minimum wage is right either economically or morally then what is he telling us? … and why should we care?
Ender
People think that business owners can just “bring their money back,” but it is not that easy and there are implications of doing so. Or, we have such a system that encourages them to send money overseas in the first place.
- Please link these studies, because most I’ve seen say the opposite.
- Your comments about the rich scream envy. WHY do some put their money in foreign accounts? How many people do so? Is it every business owner? What do you define as the evil rich? (And you ARE defining them as evil, so don’t deny that.)
- Your post seems to be predicated on Keynesian economics principles. Is there some real world examples where these principles have worked?