Miami archbishop: raise the minimum wage [CC]

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Appears the CBO has estimated that somewhere between 500,000 and 1,000,000 jobs will be lost due to Obama’s hike in the minimum wage for federal contractors. On the flip side, it also estimated that the hike would take an approximately equal number out of poverty.

So, that’s the choice. Is it the moral choice to put one man out of work entirely so another man can earn some $3.00 more per hour?

Hard to believe either of the numbers until one realizes that “federal contractors” are a very wide range of businesses. That doesn’t mean “federal employees”, but the employees of any company that does business with the government. So that would include virtually all healthcare companies, food producers, concessionaires in federal parks, etc.

And, of course, the CBO could be wrong in either case. But the real point here is that there’s no “free lunch” when it comes to government fiats. Someone always pays the price. And therefore, there is no self-evident or even probable “moral imperative” to raise the national minimum wage. Might be the moral thing to do, depending on result; might be the immoral thing to do depending on the same thing.

So, in expressing his own political opinion about the minimum wage, the good Archbishop spoke a bit early, perhaps. And that he did it on USCCB stationery could have the unfortunate consequence of causing people to imagine that somehow the Catholic Church supports the Archbishop’s opinion, including the job loss that the CBO seems to think would result.

In my opinion, clerics should be more careful about such things.
This is also the case with the ACA, we tack on a massive amount of regulation onto an already broken system to fix a problem with only 10% of the population. That 10% of the population gets helped (and that is debatable) at the expense of everyone else - how many people lost their insurance or are stand a good chance of loosing it?
 
So if the bishop is not speaking as an economist and explaining what the best economic solution is and he’s not speaking from church doctrine telling us what the right moral choice is what, exactly, is he speaking as? The letter stated…
“…, but rather as pastors and teachers who every day, in our ministries and churches, see the pain and struggles caused by an economy that simply does not produce enough jobs with just wages”
If he isn’t saying that raising the minimum wage is right either economically or morally then what is he telling us?
The stated purpose was…

We urge you to consider closely any legislation that begins to heal our broken economy by promoting decent work and ensuring fair and just compensation for all workers.
 
  1. Please link these studies,…
The claim that a raise in the MW will cause job losses is false. It is a cruel myth intending to crush the low income worker and to increase income for the wealthy. Already we have seen in the USA since 1970, a huge increase in the disparity of income between the working poor and the top one percent. As His Holiness Pope Francis has taught in Evangelii Gaudium, - the structural causes of inequality must be attacked in order to find a solution to the problems of the world.
False claims that the minimum wage increases job loss are based on faulty research. Here are some links to studies showing that there will be no increase in unemployment due to a raise in the minimum wage:
Doucougliagos and Stanely, “Publication Selection Bias in Minimum Wage Research? A Meta-Regression Analysis,” British Journal of Industrial Relations, 2009. (with NELP annotations)
ideas.repec.org/p/dkn/econwp/eco_2008_14.html
Why does the minimum wage have no discernible effect on employment?
John Schmitt
cepr.net/documents/publications/min-wage-2013-02.pdf
Bloomberg news:
"…new economic research is disproving those arguments about job losses and youth employment. Previous studies tended not to control for regional economic trends that were already affecting employment levels, such as a manufacturing-dependent state that was shedding jobs. The new research looks at micro-level employment patterns for a more accurate employment picture. The studies find minimum-wage increases even provide an economic boost, albeit a small one, as strapped workers immediately spend their raises.”
bloomberg.com/news/2012-04-16/u-s-minimum-wage-lower-than-in-lbj-era-needs-a-raise.html

And there are about twenty other studies, showing no discernible effect on employment due to an increase in the minimum wage.
 
The claim that a raise in the MW will cause job losses is false. .
Then take it up with the Congressional Budget Office, which thinks differently. If you have the evidence to refute the CBO perhaps you will share it with us before confronting them.
 
If this was true then every issue would be a moral issue, even car repair.
Not every issue is a moral issue, but of course auto repair can be a moral issue. That is why there have been so many investigations exposing fraud in the business. For example, suppose your starter goes bad and your auto repair man tells you that he only uses genuine Honda parts and that a genuine Honda starter will cost $450. You approve the deal, but he substitutes a rebuilt starter which costs $100. It is a moral issue when a repair shop charges you for the genuine part, but substitutes a rebuilt one.
 
With reference to the latest report from the CBO, "
“Jason Furman, the chairman of the White House’s Council of Economic Advisers, said the CBO’s finding is flawed.
“CBO’s estimates of the impact of raising the minimum wage on employment does not reflect the current consensus view of economists,” he said in a blog post. “The bulk of academic studies, have concluded that the effects on employment of minimum wage increases in the range now under consideration are likely to be small to nonexistent.”"

Read more: thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/budget/198631-white-house-pushes-back-on-cbo-minimum-wage-report#ixzz2tnWSbyBL
 
With reference to the latest report from the CBO, "
“Jason Furman, the chairman of the White House’s Council of Economic Advisers, said the CBO’s finding is flawed.
“CBO’s estimates of the impact of raising the minimum wage on employment does not reflect the current consensus view of economists,” he said in a blog post. “The bulk of academic studies, have concluded that the effects on employment of minimum wage increases in the range now under consideration are likely to be small to nonexistent.”"

Read more: thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/budget/198631-white-house-pushes-back-on-cbo-minimum-wage-report#ixzz2tnWSbyBL
Probably somebody can (probably already has) cherry-picked some economists and academicians who predict disaster from it. I think we can trust the White House Council’s proclamations on this about as much as we can trust their pronouncements on Obamacare, Benghazi and the IRS scandal.
 
The stated purpose was…
We urge you to consider closely any legislation that begins to heal our broken economy by promoting decent work and ensuring fair and just compensation for all workers.
Since the lead paragraph in the article cited by the OP was this…*Writing in the Fort Lauderdale-based Sun-Sentinel, Archbishop Thomas Wenski of Miami, who serves as chairman of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops’ Committee on Domestic Justice and Human Development, called for an increase in the minimum wage. *
…and the title of the thread is “Miami archbishop: raise the minimum wage” I’m thinking there is good reason to believe his stated purpose was…getting the minimum wage raised. In any event, whatever else he may have said, it is his comment about the minimum wage that everyone here has been discussing. If it isn’t an economic analysis and isn’t church doctrine then just why should anyone take it seriously? What does it mean when a bishop urges others to act on his personal political opinions?

Ender
 
Not every issue is a moral issue, but of course auto repair can be a moral issue.
We can of course act immorally in any situation but that doesn’t mean there is any particular moral question involved unique to that situation. It really makes no sense to claim that everything is a moral question because that erases the distinction between those issues that present us with specific moral choices and those that do not. If I choose wrongly in deciding what part of my car is preventing it from starting I have made a mistake, but if I choose wrongly in deciding whether or not to support (e.g.) euthanasia I have sinned. Big difference.

The question of raising the minimum wage presents us with no moral choice; both yes and no are equally amoral. The reason I select one position over the other may make my action immoral but the choices themselves are not moral choices.

Ender
 
CHAPTER TWO of the Catechism -

YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF

Jesus said to his disciples: "Love one another even as I have loved you."1

There seems to be many arguments in maintaining the current minimum wage but few of these are balanced with empathy in understanding in how it is for people in those. circumstances.

The Catechism also says

It is a part of the Church’s mission "to pass moral judgments even in matters related to politics, whenever the fundamental rights of man or the salvation of souls requires it. the means, the only means, she may use are those which are in accord with the Gospel and the welfare of all men according to the diversity of times and circumstances."53

As Catholics these are doctrines we are to follow.

When you compare $7 an hour with the top paid CEO in 2012

ORACLE CORP Lawrence J. Ellison $96,160,696
TESLA MOTORS INC Elon Musk $78,150,010
GAMCO INVESTORS INC Mario J. Gabelli $68,970,486
ACTIVISION BLIZZARD INC Robert A. Kotick $64,942,306
CBS CORP Leslie Moonves $62,157,026
CHENIERE ENERGY INC Charif Souki $57,518,332
CREDIT ACCEPTANCE CORP Brett A. Roberts $54,282,500
MCKESSON CORP John H. Hammergren $51,744,999
DISCOVERY COMM INC David M. Zaslav $49,932,867
HCA HOLDINGS INC Richard M. Bracken $46,359,246

While these people may have important positions it is hard to argue that one person can earn $1,849,244 a week while another earns $280.
 
CHAPTER TWO of the Catechism -

YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF

Jesus said to his disciples: "Love one another even as I have loved you."1

There seems to be many arguments in maintaining the current minimum wage but few of these are balanced with empathy in understanding in how it is for people in those. circumstances.

The Catechism also says

It is a part of the Church’s mission "to pass moral judgments even in matters related to politics, whenever the fundamental rights of man or the salvation of souls requires it. the means, the only means, she may use are those which are in accord with the Gospel and the welfare of all men according to the diversity of times and circumstances."53

As Catholics these are doctrines we are to follow.

When you compare $7 an hour with the top paid CEO in 2012

ORACLE CORP Lawrence J. Ellison $96,160,696
TESLA MOTORS INC Elon Musk $78,150,010
GAMCO INVESTORS INC Mario J. Gabelli $68,970,486
ACTIVISION BLIZZARD INC Robert A. Kotick $64,942,306
CBS CORP Leslie Moonves $62,157,026
CHENIERE ENERGY INC Charif Souki $57,518,332
CREDIT ACCEPTANCE CORP Brett A. Roberts $54,282,500
MCKESSON CORP John H. Hammergren $51,744,999
DISCOVERY COMM INC David M. Zaslav $49,932,867
HCA HOLDINGS INC Richard M. Bracken $46,359,246

While these people may have important positions it is hard to argue that one person can earn $1,849,244 a week while another earns $280.
Envy is a really horrible thing.

From the Catechism:

2539 Envy is a capital sin. It refers to the sadness at the sight of another’s goods and the immoderate desire to acquire them for oneself, even unjustly. When it wishes grave harm to a neighbor it is a mortal sin:
St. Augustine saw envy as "the diabolical sin."326 "From envy are born hatred, detraction, calumny, joy caused by the misfortune of a neighbor, and displeasure caused by his prosperity."327
2540 Envy represents a form of sadness and therefore a refusal of charity; the baptized person should struggle against it by exercising good will. Envy often comes from pride; the baptized person should train himself to live in humility:
Would you like to see God glorified by you? Then rejoice in your brother’s progress and you will immediately give glory to God. Because his servant could conquer envy by rejoicing in the merits of others, God will be praised.328
You should really talk to your spiritual director about the unhealthy attitude you demonstrated in your post.
 
It’s not Envy - I live a very comfortable life. I have a house, a car, food on the table, loving family, good friends, a great church community and God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

I consider myself extremely wealthy - in the most important element - love.

Where did I say that I what the goods of the “excessive wealthily”. Personally I see that sort of wealth could possibly be a burden. I have earned $100,000’s a year but with God’s realisation it’s not important to me.

What I have is Empathy and Compassion for people who have very little (for what ever reason - the ill, the poor, disadvantaged, the plain just unlucky and even the foolish).

This are hugely different from Envy.

I’m a catholic and a capitalist but I just see the human value of some one who cleans the waste from the body of the ill in a hospice or flips burgers in an un-airconditioned kitchen at 3:00am or makes judgements on balance sheets in a boardroom as being a lot closer.

As Pope Francis expressed in EVANGELII GAUDIUM

II. The inclusion of the poor in society
  1. Our faith in Christ, who became poor, and was always close to the poor and the outcast, is the basis of our concern for the integral development of society’s most neglected members.
You have grossly mistaken taken my views to be Envy and suggested I seek spiritual guidance.

Now if there is an issue with comparing a CEO earning $1.8m a week while another person earns $280 and Pope Francis has stated his views about the “widening gap between those who have more and those who must be content with the crumbs”

I think other spiritual direction may also be required
 
Envy is a really horrible thing.

2539 Envy is a capital sin. It refers to the sadness at the sight of another’s goods and the immoderate desire to acquire them for oneself, even unjustly. When it wishes grave harm to a neighbor it is a mortal sin:

You should really talk to your spiritual director about the unhealthy attitude you demonstrated in your post.
If you read the definition posted above, you will notice that envy involves wanting another’s good for oneself. Envy is not an issue here.
 
Since the lead paragraph in the article cited by the OP was this…

Writing in the Fort Lauderdale-based Sun-Sentinel…,
Fortunately we do not have a Pope that goes around wringing his hands over how some media will spin his words. I for one don’t swallow everything I read in the paper. Do you?
 
It’s not Envy…
It very well is envy. (and jealousy)

Maybe not for you personally, but sociologically, it most certainly is.

(NB: I make no where in the same order of magnitude of these CEOs base salaries, much less their stock options, in fact, I just took a 20% pay cut due to my current company’s financial difficulties…yes, I’m looking for another job)

First,

These CEOs are all hired by the stockholders of the companies. They negotiated an employment agreement that gives them a certain amount in base salary and in stock options. The base salary is actually worth less than the stock options…the value of the stock options is based upon how well the company performs (the company does well and the stock options are very lucrative…on the other hand, if the company goes bust, the stock options are worthless other than to start a fire).

If the stockholders believe that the CEO is compensated too highly, the stockholders can do something about it. For example, see Royal Dutch Shell. Since you mentioned Oracle, there is likely to be a shareholder revolt regarding Larry Ellison’s compensation package as well. The point is that CEO salaries are a negotiated agreement between the owners of the company (the shareholders) and the CEO. Frankly, it’s none of your business nor is it any of mine.

As Pope Leo XIII said:Wages, as we are told, are regulated by free consent, and therefore the employer, when he pays what was agreed upon, has done his part and seemingly is not called upon to do anything beyond. The only way, it is said, in which injustice might occur would be if the master refused to pay the whole of the wages, or if the workman should not complete the work undertaken; in such cases the public authority should intervene, to see that each obtains his due, but not under any other circumstances.
The CEO of a company is an employee, just the same as a janitor.

Secondly,

When you talk about comparing a CEO’s salary to a minimum wage worker’s salary, you imply that the CEO is somehow cheating the minimum wage worker out of his compensation. That is a very rash implication.2477 Respect for the reputation of persons forbids every attitude and word likely to cause them unjust injury. He becomes guilty:
  • of rash judgment who, even tacitly, assumes as true, without sufficient foundation, the moral fault of a neighbor;
  • of detraction who, without objectively valid reason, discloses another’s faults and failings to persons who did not know them;
  • of calumny who, by remarks contrary to the truth, harms the reputation of others and gives occasion for false judgments concerning them.
How many minimum wage employees does Oracle have? How about Tesla? and so on?

How many of these alleged low-wage employees are being paid below the market value of their skillsets? (paying a person at or above market value is just; paying a person less than market value would be cheating them)

Did the CEO lie, cheat, or steal to get his job? Did he misrepresent his qualifications? Did he potentially rise from being a line worker (doesn’t happen all the time, but does frequently happen with CEOs)?

Do you KNOW the answer to any of these questions? If not, are you not presuming the answer? Aren’t you being just a bit rash?

**Third,
**If Larry Ellison was to walk into Oracle Headquarters this morning and announce that he loves the company and has made enough money and from thenceforth would work for free, how would that benefit the poor?
Would Oracle go to the streets of Oakland and hire 1,000 homeless people to become database engineers?
Would Oracle go to the streets of DC and hire even one poor person?
Or if Bob Kotick was to make a similar announcement, would Activision start hiring the homeless to program computer games?

Though you didn’t mention this as a case, if the Walmart CEO was to give up his salary and decided to distribute it to all his employees (Walmart, in fairness, does have a large number of <$10/hr employees)…it would result in about $10-$15 per employee per year (contingent upon Walmart’s stock price). Hardly enough to make a difference in anybody’s life.

The fact of the matter is that the salary of a company’s CEO has nothing to do with the wages/salaries of the company’s employees.

But it’s very common for leftists, motivated by jealousy and envy, to make some claim that CEO salaries are earned on the backs of the poor workers.

The ONLY thing that should matter to us as Christians, unless some cheating or theft can be proven, is what Larry Ellison, Elon Musk, Bob Kotick, et al, do with their compensation once they’ve got it. Are they sharing their wealth with the poor? Are they contributing to the furtherance of the gospel? And so on.

If they are, may God bless their efforts.

If they aren’t, then it would appropriate to discuss how to reach them with the truth of the Gospel so that they would embrace the virtue of liberality. And that not out of jealousy, but rather out of concern for the state of their souls.
 
It very well is envy. (and jealousy)

Maybe not for you personally, but sociologically, it most certainly is.
Sorry I’m not up on my Pope Leo’s XIII RERUM NOVARUM of 1891

(but he does state “that the hiring of labor and the conduct of trade are concentrated in the hands of comparatively few; so that a small number of very rich men have been able to lay upon the teeming masses of the laboring poor a yoke little better than that of slavery itself.”)

I was just following the current doctrine of Pope Francis - who teachings are seen as infallible.

I just believe that compassion is one of the most fundamental elements of Catholicism and that to love my neighbour means to acknowledge we live in an society.
 
Sorry I’m not up on my Pope Leo’s XIII RERUM NOVARUM of 1891

(but he does state “that the hiring of labor and the conduct of trade are concentrated in the hands of comparatively few; so that a small number of very rich men have been able to lay upon the teeming masses of the laboring poor a yoke little better than that of slavery itself.”)

I was just following the current doctrine of Pope Francis - who teachings are seen as infallible (nor would an infallible definition ever occur in *any *Apostolic Exhoration).

I just believe that compassion is one of the most fundamental elements of Catholicism and that to love my neighbour means to acknowledge we live in an society.
Perhaps you need to brush up a little bit on papal infallibility:
From the First Vatican Council:
Therefore,
  • faithfully adhering to the tradition received from the beginning of the christian faith,
  • to the glory of God our saviour,
  • for the exaltation of the catholic religion and
  • for the salvation of the christian people,
  • with the approval of the sacred council,
  • we teach and define as a divinely revealed dogma that
  • when the Roman pontiff speaks EX CATHEDRA,
  • that is, when,
    1. in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians,
    2. in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority,
    3. he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole church,
    4. he possesses,
    5. by the divine assistance promised to him in blessed Peter,
    6. that infallibility which the divine Redeemer willed his church to enjoy in defining doctrine concerning faith or morals.
    7. Therefore, such definitions of the Roman pontiff are of themselves, and not by the consent of the church, irreformable.
    Nothing in that Apostolic Exhortation had the language necessary to establish any doctrine as infallible.

    Additionally, as far as the hierarchy of papal writings are concerned, this is not a Motu Proprio, an Apostolic Constitution, an Encyclical, or an Apostolic Letter. It is an Apostolic Exhortation (which ranks below all of the preceding categories of documents). The point is that the relative weight of it does not nullify any documents of the Papal Magisterium (regardless of which pope issued that Magisterial document).

    Further, this document was the result of the XIII Ordinary General Assembly of the Synod of BIshops in October 2012. To understand EG, you need to understand the workings of that synod. In order to do so, you should read the list of propositions approved by the synod and the Instrumentum Laboris proposed for the Synod. EG 14 references the Synod and its result.

    Further, the exhortation itself says: 17. Here I have chosen to present some guidelines which can encourage and guide the whole Church in a new phase of evangelization, one marked by enthusiasm and vitality.

    The purpose of this document is evangelization, not social doctrine. The document itself says so.

    The point I’m getting at is that you make a grievous error if you make claims that this document adjusts, in any way, the Church’s social doctrine. It doesn’t.

    Having said the above, I will give you a quote from something that is in the Papal Magisterium and part of the Social Doctrine of the Church:
    It should be noted that in today’s world, among other rights, the right of economic initiative is often suppressed. Yet it is a right which is important not only for the individual but also for the common good. Experience shows us that the denial of this right, or its limitation in the name of an alleged “equality” of everyone in society, diminishes, or in practice absolutely destroys the spirit of initiative, that is to say the creative subjectivity of the citizen. As a consequence, there arises, not so much a true equality as a “leveling down.” In the place of creative initiative there appears passivity, dependence and submission to the bureaucratic apparatus which, as the only “ordering” and “decision-making” body - if not also the “owner”- of the entire totality of goods and the means of production, puts everyone in a position of almost absolute dependence, which is similar to the traditional dependence of the worker-proletarian in capitalism. This provokes a sense of frustration or desperation and predisposes people to opt out of national life, impelling many to emigrate and also favoring a form of “psychological” emigration.

    - John Paul II, Encyclical [Sollicitudo Rei Socialis (http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/j...enc_30121987_sollicitudo-rei-socialis_en.html) (15)
 
CHAPTER TWO of the Catechism -

YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF

Jesus said to his disciples: "Love one another even as I have loved you."1

There seems to be many arguments in maintaining the current minimum wage but few of these are balanced with empathy in understanding in how it is for people in those. circumstances.

The Catechism also says

It is a part of the Church’s mission "to pass moral judgments even in matters related to politics, whenever the fundamental rights of man or the salvation of souls requires it. the means, the only means, she may use are those which are in accord with the Gospel and the welfare of all men according to the diversity of times and circumstances."53

As Catholics these are doctrines we are to follow.

When you compare $7 an hour with the top paid CEO in 2012

ORACLE CORP Lawrence J. Ellison $96,160,696
TESLA MOTORS INC Elon Musk $78,150,010
GAMCO INVESTORS INC Mario J. Gabelli $68,970,486
ACTIVISION BLIZZARD INC Robert A. Kotick $64,942,306
CBS CORP Leslie Moonves $62,157,026
CHENIERE ENERGY INC Charif Souki $57,518,332
CREDIT ACCEPTANCE CORP Brett A. Roberts $54,282,500
MCKESSON CORP John H. Hammergren $51,744,999
DISCOVERY COMM INC David M. Zaslav $49,932,867
HCA HOLDINGS INC Richard M. Bracken $46,359,246

While these people may have important positions it is hard to argue that one person can earn $1,849,244 a week while another earns $280.
Lots of money. Of course, we don’t know how much of it is in the form of stock options, the value of which depends on the company’s and CEO’s performance.

In terms of the amounts alone, it may be observed that this pay is pretty comparable to that of top professional athletes. Tiger Woods, for example, makes more than any but the top two of those you listed. If you go down the list of highly paid athletes and these corporate people, picking the top ones, the corporate people don’t do as well, on average, as the athletes do.forbes.com/athletes/list/

Why pay athletes so much? Well, the owners and sponsors and such figure they will benefit the company by that much and more. Same with the corporations. We all sort of sympathize with the athletes because their high earning years are pretty short. Well, it’s true of top corporate execs too. A lot of those people don’t last long either.

It can be said that the public is okay with supporting highly paid athletes because they’re entertaining. Corporate execs provide goods and services at prices people are willing to pay too.

And do the supporting personnel of athletic games do any better than line workers at, say, Oracle? How do those guys do who direct traffic in the parking lots? (Answer: not very well, and it’s seasonal)

So, if we’re offended at what corporate executives make, we can’t separate our indignation about that from indignation about the athletic world either. And we also have to ask ourselves whether the greenskeepers would make any more if Tiger Woods’ earnings were cut in half or more? Would they? There is no particular reason to believe so.

I yield the floor to whomever wants to suggest a remedy. We already know about the “higher taxation/more welfare” one. Something imaginative would be more entertaining.
 
Why does the minimum wage have no discernible effect on employment?
John Schmitt
cepr.net/documents/publications/min-wage-2013-02.pdf

And there are about twenty other studies, showing no discernible effect on employment due to an increase in the minimum wage.
You should re-read your link. They hide it, but they do admit the effects predicted. They show a 4% increase in prices for a 10% increase in the MW. So while employment may not have changed much, (although I wasn’t impressed with their analysis or conclusion on that point), other possible outcomes (which were predicted) showed up right on cue. Namely, wage increase expenses were passed on to the consumer.
 
If there is a connection, which is highly debatable, since how can the lowest 2% of the labor force have a big impact on the cost of living, the real question is what is the direction of causality? Perhaps the high MW is caused by the high cost of living? Bring down the cost of living and there will be less reason to raise the MW.
Because it doesn’t just affect the lowest 2%. If the MW is increased to $10/hour, then those currently making $10/hr will want a raise. The reason they want a raise is because they know they are more productive, more skilled, and a better employee than a MW worker. So MW increases affect quite a bit.

It also causes wage increases for labor union contracts that are tied to the MW.
 
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