Miami archdiocese bans Legionaries of Christ, Regnum Christi [CWN]

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You confirm to me that I was right not to give you any more detail in my email than I did. Trust me, I could give you plenty. The fact that now you dare judge me (and my parish) as “liberal” when you do not know me personally is very sad. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Bottom line= they had no permission to be here.
And what do the girl scouts have to do with anything of this is beyond me.
 
The MIA Parishioner explained to me that her pastor invited his parishioners to start clubs like Challenge, Conquest, etc in his parish and school because he believes in their cause. These are authentically Catholic clubs, and since the pastor is responsible for the souls within the boundaries of his parish he was doing the right thing. These clubs, while usually run by RC people, do not have to be. The parishioners running these clubs may or may not have been RC. However, the parents overreacted to stuff on the interent, and were intimidated by the conservative nature of these clubs, and complained. I highly doubt an LC priest was even involved. In fact, I’ll bet you they were not involved at all. I also highly doubt there was no “pain” inflicted at the parish or school. The LC do not disobey bishops.
 
In your private email to me, you said yourself that your parish was more liberal than the clubs, and that’s why parents complained.
 
Since he’s banning the LC, what order of priests is he bringing in to replace them?
He’s not. The LC never had permission to minister to the laity. This is what got them into trouble. The bishop does not need another community, because the LC were not meeting a diocesan need. Besides, they have many secular priests in that diocese and more than 158 religious brothers and over 200 religious sisters.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
You have summed up my thoughts on this matter. I cannot imagine a LoC priest not closing his mounth and shaking the dust from his sandles and moving on. That is why I love those guys, I wish I could be that detached from an attack.
The MIA Parishioner explained to me that her pastor invited his parishioners to start clubs like Challenge, Conquest, etc in his parish and school because he believes in their cause. These are authentically Catholic clubs, and since the pastor is responsible for the souls within the boundaries of his parish he was doing the right thing. These clubs, while usually run by RC people, do not have to be. The parishioners running these clubs may or may not have been RC. However, the parents overreacted to stuff on the interent, and were intimidated by the conservative nature of these clubs, and complained. I highly doubt an LC priest was even involved. In fact, I’ll bet you they were not involved at all. I also highly doubt there was no “pain” inflicted at the parish or school. The LC do not disobey bishops.
 
Where were the violations with the priests occurring?
The violation was that they were told that they could not minister to the laity in the Archdiocese. They could only minister to each other. They were asked several times not to minister to the laity. They never entered the diocese with permission to minister to the laity. They were allowed to setup house for their internal needs such as formation.

No religious group can minister to the laity in a diocese without the consent of the bishop. The only exceptions are when the religious group has received permission to open its own colleges, schools, hospitals and other institutions. They can minister to the laity on the grounds of their institutions. But they must have prior permission to open up such institutions. The Legiondid never had such permission.

I don’t know this from personal experience. I have heard that the Legion has serious communication problems. I have never heard that they were heretics or strange in any way. The only thing that I have heard is that they do not have good communication with the bishops in the diocese where they find themselves. It sounds to me like this is a problem at the top of their community, which affects those at the local level. It is the responsibility of the major superiors to maintain open the lines of communication with the local bishops.

Even in the Miami case, they were not accused of doing anything bad. They were charged with doing ministry without the permission of the bishop. That’s a communication problem, not an orthodoxy problem. If there is more, the bishop did not say it.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
He’s not. The LC never had permission to minister to the laity. This is what got them into trouble. The bishop does not need another community, because the LC were not meeting a diocesan need. Besides, they have many secular priests in that diocese and more than 158 religious brothers and over 200 religious sisters.
That must be nice – no need for any additional priests to minister to Catholics.

Here are some stats for the Archdiocese:

Year …Catholics…Priests…Priests per Catholic
1990… 621,069…444…1,398
2000… 800,695…432…1,853
2001… 816,207…382…2,136
2002… 830,366…343…2,420
2003… 844,685…350…2,413
2004… 856,783…361…2,373

So, the number of Catholics has increased by 235,000 and the number of priests has declined by 83. Each priest has to minister to 975 more Catholics.

The LC was invited in and they had some kind of apostolate. Now that they’re kicked out, the work that they were doing will be abandoned.
 
What do statistics mean when your suggested alternative is to get people who can’t seem to live within the boundaries set for them by the Ordinary? Perhaps, as Br. JR suggests, they can work on solving the communications problem first then try again to build up a level of trust with the Bishop. Maybe then their presence would be welcomed.

I can’t speak to what happened in Miami, but I’ve seen many times where someone got the parents of a Catholic school riled up - too liberal or too conservative viewpoint - and while the parents were angered, I don’t recall any significant amount of mail going to the Bishop (complaints) as a result. If that did happen in Miami, I’d have a fair amount of confidence it wasn’t something trivial or made up.

Something is fundamentally wrong if in the performance of a ministry it causes great angst among the faithful. I don’t have the facts to form an opinion, just saying something isn’t connecting the right way.
 
What do statistics mean when your suggested alternative is to get people who can’t seem to live within the boundaries set for them by the Ordinary?
The statistics mean something, as I see it. First, a group of priests is permitted only with limited ministerial functions. Either there is a need in the archdiocese or there isn’t. If not, then why bring them in at all. If there is a legitimate need, then why restrict their ministry? Now it is said that the archdiocese has no need for them. The suggested alternative that I gave was that they should be replaced by another order of priests. Additionally, when the archbishop brings priests in – he might consider letting them act as priests so that they can offer Mass and hear confessions and thus minister to the hundreds of thousands of additional Catholics who have fewer priests to serve them.
I can’t speak to what happened in Miami, but I’ve seen many times where someone got the parents of a Catholic school riled up - too liberal or too conservative viewpoint - and while the parents were angered, I don’t recall any significant amount of mail going to the Bishop (complaints) as a result. If that did happen in Miami, I’d have a fair amount of confidence it wasn’t something trivial or made up.
I wouldn’t and have not defended the LC in this situation at all. Without any additional information I conclude that the archbishop made the right decision to ban them. But my question as a follow-up was about what he planned to do to replace them. Now I hear that he doesn’t need the help of more priests.

I think the statistics show a radically different story. Each of his priests has thousands more Catholics to attend to, since 1990. Why not bring in another group of priests to replace the LC?
 
The statistics mean something, as I see it. First, a group of priests is permitted only with limited ministerial functions. Either there is a need in the archdiocese or there isn’t. If not, then why bring them in at all. If there is a legitimate need, then why restrict their ministry? Now it is said that the archdiocese has no need for them. The suggested alternative that I gave was that they should be replaced by another order of priests. Additionally, when the archbishop brings priests in – he might consider letting them act as priests so that they can offer Mass and hear confessions and thus minister to the hundreds of thousands of additional Catholics who have fewer priests to serve them.
I’m not there, but from what I understand they were not invited. They asked and were given permission to enter the Archdiocese to serve their own. They expanded their reach without the permission of the bishop. They were told to scale back. They didn’t. That’s the issue. No one has accused them of anything else other than not following the restrictions that the bishop put on them as he does with every religious order. I also understand that they were promoting vocations to the Legion without the permission of the bishop or the parents. That’s not allowed. No religious community can recruit in a diocese without the permission of the bishop. Vocations by their very nature belong to the local church, unless the bishop releases them to the religious orders. If an individual seeks out a religious order, that’s one thing. If a religious order promotes vocation in a bishop’s territory, without his permission, that’s another story. We religious cannot do that.
I wouldn’t and have not defended the LC in this situation at all. Without any additional information I conclude that the archbishop made the right decision to ban them. But my question as a follow-up was about what he planned to do to replace them. Now I hear that he doesn’t need the help of more priests.
I think the statistics show a radically different story. Each of his priests has thousands more Catholics to attend to, since 1990. Why not bring in another group of priests to replace the LC?
A bishop cannot mandate a religious order or religious congregation to enter his diocese. He can invite them, but they don’t have to accept the invitation. Currently, there are three religious communities that have priests in the archdiocese. There are more religious communnities of brothers and religious communities of sisters. They do a fair amount of parish work and other ministries. You also have to remember that many religious orders no longer take on parishes. I can speak about my own Franciscan family. Our reform mandated that we not take on more parishes, but we move into the area of street ministry, respect life, communication ministry, contemplative life, and ministry of presence. The focus right now is to leave parishes that are middle class and higher. Even in the other ministries that I listed above, the reform calls for the friars to move out when the neighborhood’s economic level rises to middle class.

Running parishes is not the role of religious. It is the role of secular priests. Most religioius institutes were founded for other missions: missions, sick, education, preaching, street ministry, communication, study, contemplation, youth, seniors or fraternal life.

Then you have another problem in many dioceses and that’s financial. Many dioceses cannot afford more priests, because they can’t pay them. Many parishes do not generate enough income to pay for more priests on their staff, be they religious or secular. You can’t invite a religious institute into a diocese if you can’t afford them.

Bishops have a big challenge when it comes to staffing with religious communities. The communities do not want to take on more parishes or the parishes cannot afford more than one or two priests. Most religious communities will not staff any ministry where they cannot have a community.

I know that the OMI are in that diocese. But they have a religioius community with five priests assigned to one parish. This allows them to live a religious life. The OCDS also have religious there, but they have five and seven to a house, to allow them to live religious life. If I’m not mistaken the OFM are also there, but they too have five to a house. The problem is that unless a parish can afford to support an entire community, religious won’t take the parish. It’s not as simple as simply inviting a community of priests.

In addition, there are few religious communities of priests. The only religious communities of priests are Clerks Regular and they don’t have as many men as to the lay communities: mendicants and monastic. We go back around the circle. The mendicants and monastic will not take parishes that cannot afford an entire community. Finally, there is the issue of religious brothers. The mendicant and monastic communities are religious brothers. They will not take parishes that do not make room for lay brothers on their staff.

You can’t just ask a bishop to invite a religious community into his diocese unless he has something to offer them that is for the good of their community. It is not fair to religious to ask them to take on a ministry for the benefit of the laity and the expense of religious life.

In conclusion there are two important points to keep in mind when you have a religious institute in a diocese. The religious institute must abide by the rules of the bishop and the bishop must abide by the charism of the institutte. What happened here was that the LC and RC did not abide by the rules of the bishop. The communication broke down somewhere at the top of the organization of the Legion.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
I just saw this on another thread. The Legion was also banned from these dioceses:

St. Paul-Minneapolis, Los Angeles, Richmond Va, Columbus Ohio, Fort Wayne-South Bend Ind., and Baton Rouge.

Apparently the complaint is the same. They are not limiting themselves by the boundaries that the bishops have given them. There is a serious problem with the upper levels of authority of the Legion. It is the responsibility of the major superior to ensure that there is a flow of communication between his community and the local bishops.

My take, from what people are saying is that the Legion and some supporters have become crusaders. One has to understand that you may have the greatest good in mind and the salvation of souls in mind, but you cannot break the rules to do it. When you break the rules, you also break communion. Miami makes the Miami makes the 7th diocese in the USA with the same complaint. They were also banned in the Archdiocese of Mexico City. We really have to ask what is happening? Their own men are not asking questions about their superiors. Something is wrong somewhere with those in authority in the Legion. They need to regroup and fix it.

I also read that Archbishop Chaput has been appointed as one of the visitators to the Legion in the USA and that he is getting complaints from the laity, not just bishops. This was a good appointment, because Chaput is a friar. This means that you have a religious looking at other religious. Bishops who are religious have a better understanding of the inner workings of religious intstitutes.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
This saddens me, as my experiences with them were positive. Coming from many overtly unorthodox experiences at Notre Dame, such as women reading the gospel and using “honey spice bread” in lieu of unleavened bread at dorm mass, it was refreshing to meet priests who were clear and firm in their adherence to Church teaching. This was, of course, in the Fort Wayne-South Bend Diocese, where they are now banned. Although, at the time they may well have had approval to be there, this was a decade ago now.
 
This saddens me, as my experiences with them were positive. Coming from many overtly unorthodox experiences at Notre Dame, such as women reading the gospel and using “honey spice bread” in lieu of unleavened bread at dorm mass, it was refreshing to meet priests who were clear and firm in their adherence to Church teaching. This was, of course, in the Fort Wayne-South Bend Diocese, where they are now banned. Although, at the time they may well have had approval to be there, this was a decade ago now.
From what I understand, they have always been received by the bishops. The issue that go them into trouble in all these dioceses is that they were ministering to people to whom they did not have permission to minister and did not ask for permission nor did they pull back when asked to do so.

As a general rule, religious cannot minister to whomever we please. We are given boundaries by bishops. If we want to expand those boundaries, our major superiors must negotiate that with the local bishop. I know that my own community goes through this every so often, where people ask us for services and we have to turn them down, because we do not have the bishop’s permission. I don’t know what the constitutions of the Legion says. In our rule, which trumps our constitution, St. Francis wrote that we may never serve any Catholic without the permission of the local bisop. St. Francis makes not provision for exceptions, even to preach the Gospel or do spiritual direction. It is pretty cut and dry. If you don’t have permission, the friars may not serve. The friars’ first duty is to show submission to the Church, then to their superiors, then to their brothers, then they may serve, in that order. Submission is the highest rule of religious life.

Unless there is danger of death, there is not reason for any priest who belongs to a religious community to serve outside of the boundaries set up by his superiors or by the local bishop, even if you’re doing the most orthodox and noble service. Submission trumps all other virtues, for religious.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF
 
I wonder if Bishop D’Arcy of Fort Wayne-South Bend is/was aware of the illicit practices at Notre Dame. When I mentioned a girl reading the Gospel, it wasn’t a new or fringe C.S.C. priest presiding over that mass, it was Father Theodore Hesburgh himself, the President Emeritus. And it wasn’t one singular instance that a dorm served honey spice bread at mass, but multiple times. In fact, baskets of leftover consecrated hosts were passed around for people to take from and eat after Communion.

But I digress… sorry to get off topic, but I do want to know where the repercussions are for the illicit activities at Notre Dame.
 
I wonder if Bishop D’Arcy of Fort Wayne-South Bend is/was aware of the illicit practices at Notre Dame. When I mentioned a girl reading the Gospel, it wasn’t a new or fringe C.S.C. priest presiding over that mass, it was Father Theodore Hesburgh himself, the President Emeritus. And it wasn’t one singular instance that a dorm served honey spice bread at mass, but multiple times. In fact, baskets of leftover consecrated hosts were passed around for people to take from and eat after Communion.

But I digress… sorry to get off topic, but I do want to know where the repercussions are for the illicit activities at Notre Dame.
Don’t apologize. You have brought up a very good example. A bishop does not have jurisdiction over territories owned by exempt religious. A university that is owned by a religius congregation or a religioius order is not part of the diocese. It’s religious come under the Ordinary jurisdiction of their major superior.

However, the bishop does have certain canonical rights. He can stip a university of its Catholic title if they are not in communion with the Church. But he cannot expel the religious from his diocese, because they are not in his diocese. They are in their own territory. This is an excellent example of how the law works. He can ask the major superior to intervene. That too is his right. He can even impose a ban on the religious at the university from ministering outside of the university, in his diocese. Once an institution has been canonically erected in a diocese, the bishop does not have the authority to disband it. Only the pope or the major superior have that authority.

The case of the Legion is that they are in the diocese. Any religious in a diocese must work according to the agreements between the bishop and the major superior.

Some of the nonsense that has been taking place at Notre Dame certainly breaks communion with the bishops and must be addressed. But they have to be addressed with the major superior and the major superior is the only one who has the authority to discipline, suspend, transfer etc. I do believe that the local bishop is working with the major superior of the Holy Cross Brothers. Even the Holy Cross priests have no jurisdiction, because it’s not their school. It was founded by the Brothers. As I understand it, the brothers no longer own it. It is owned by a private non-profict corporation. The Congregation of the Holy Cross has jurisdiction over its members who serve at the university, not over the university itself. They surrendered the university to a lay corporation many years ago. Different canons apply in this situation.

If I’m not mistaken, the only religious who still own universities in the USA are Franciscans, Dominicans and Marianists. The other religious orders and religious congregations no longer own the universities that they founded or where they work. The Board of Trustees owns and operates them. These boards are lay and private.

The Legion is not in the same canonical situation. They are operating in the diocese. Those of us who operate in a diocese are bound by the bishop. If and when we find that we cannot comply with the bishop, we have to take the issue up with our major superiors. We cannot do our own thing. Our major superiors cannot authorize us to do our own thing, without a contract with the bishop that states what we can and cannot do in his diocese. Now, if we retire to our own universities, schools, and other institutions, that’s another story.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
The question that remains unasked is why do the bishops feel the need to limit the ministry of an orthodox religious community? Brother, with all due respect, you say on this post that you abandon the middle class. Is the state of their souls less worthy than those of the poor?

This is my issue with the local church. We will provide mass on Sunday as long as you stuff the baskets with money. As far as spiritual growth or community? You are on your own. Some of our bishops are failing us.

Scripture study - LC yes, diocese no
Evenings of recollection - LC yes, diocese no
Spiritual Direction - LC yes, diocese no
Preached retreats - LC yes, diocese well they call it retreats but it is mostly a day of guitar circles (check out Martin Doman) and centering prayers. Certainly no Ignatian Exercises.
Mens/Womens weekly prayer and accountability groups - LC yes, diocese no
 
Well formation is ministry. RC people are laity, and so are their children. The LC very likely did not have any institutions within the Archdiocese of Miami because these take a long time to establish and under such restrictions establishing something would be difficult. Now here’s a scenario…and it happens…if someone wishes to incorporate into RC, he/she would have to speak with an LC priest at some point prior to incorporation because the order has an obligation to communicate with the person (regarding the visitation, etc.) so that he/she understands what the promises are, etc. … I guess technically this could constitute ministry to a non RC person? That’s legalistic… but very likely this is the type of thing that happened.

So again, what ministry, exactly, were “they” doing without permission from the bishop? and who is “they?”

I have dealt with many orders over the years, and I have never found the LC to be uncommunicative with the bishops. Actually they seem to me to be quite careful. Just my observation. In fact, it has often boggled my mind how much pastors do not know about the diocesan schools that operate right next door to them…but of course they have very little or no say in what goes on there anyway. Beaucracy. Anyway, if there are communication problems it likely happened on both ends and it is best to know what those problems are so that they can be fixed…within the boundaries of normal human error which will always be there. It does not seem as though the archdiocese was very open to them from the beginning, and maybe they were not willing to work things out or maybe they did not get answers from the LC in time or something. We all know that priests get stretched for time and work hard, and the LC were likely in many areas at once. Thank you for giving your explanations in a logical manner to us.
 
A few points:
  1. How “orthodox” can the LoC be if they refuse to be obedient to the local Ordinary?
  2. Conservatism does not automatically equal orthodoxy. One can be highly “conservative” and unorthodox. Once again, what orthodox Catholic would disobey the proper Church authority?
  3. There are a variety of spiritualities, viewpoints, and practices that fall within orthodox Catholicism. Pretending that your group or way is the best or only way to be a good Catholic is not only incorrect but damaging to the unity of the Church.
  4. The LoC have been controversial for many years in many diocese. This is not new. I know many very conservative Catholics who left LoC’s RC and view it negatively. Thus its not only “liberals” who have had problems with the group.
  5. Claiming that any group of priests should be allowed in just because there’s a shortage is counterproductive. I’m sure there are groups of priests that many LoC supports would hate to see come into their diocese.
 
  1. Claiming that any group of priests should be allowed in just because there’s a shortage is counterproductive. I’m sure there are groups of priests that many LoC supports would hate to see come into their diocese.
I’ll just address this because it seems like a response to my point of view.

I never said that “any group of priests” should be allowed in. I merely questioned why the archdiocese wasn’t going to replace the LC. One claim I heard was that the archdiocese didn’t need the LC or anyone else for support. I feel the statistics on the priest shortage prove that wrong. The faithful need the support.

There are many good, orthodox, faithful orders of priests who could be invited to pick up the ministries that the LC was providing. But that won’t happen.

I agree that there are many groups of priests also who would not be welcome by LC supporters. I’m just interested in how the archdiocese would decide on this. If they replaced the LC with a dissenting group of clergy, it would be very interesting and informative.

In this case, they got rid of the LC and replaced them with nothing.

I’m not a supporter of the LC at all, myself. But I think I can recognize how important their ministry is (the good parts of it) and how much hunger and need there is for an orthodox-traditional presence in an archdiocese like Miami.

Why not reach out and try to fulfill that need with other orders of priests? Why not give them full faculties to do the important missionary, apostolic and apologetical work that is desperately needed? Why not build and grow instead of finding excuses for getting rid of priestly support? Why not train local priests to do the same work that the LC does – in the same orthodox manner?

None of this will happen – for reasons that are obvious to me, but I just like to test my assumptions and get some validation. In this case, the LC was tolerated, then kicked out, and then not replaced.
 
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